Best Electricity Plan for new EV Owners

fafy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334682#Comment_120334682

Good plan, for those without solar/battery, the day/night becomes much more relevant/impactful, if you add a heat pump, and are also EV charging regularly at home.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334682#Comment_120334682

I plan to take weekly readings for the next 2 weeks (no EV) and for the few weeks after I get the car to monitor changes.

Data is your friend. You have the right approach.

I would recommend you take several readings at 11pm and then at 8am to see what your normal night time usage is. That will be important for subsequent calculations.

Having said that, with your mileage I'd say you will be switching to a d/n tariff. It doesn't take much to make d/n worthwhile. Without doing anything at all you will be using electricity at night(see above). Add in some appliance on delay timers and then one or two charge sessions in the EV and you will be way over what's needed to make it worthwhile.... but get the data and run it through Excel to prove it to yourself first.

BailMeOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291865#Comment_120291865

I do this as well. 90% of my charges are most nights between 2am and 4am at 12c /KWh.

Mickeroo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334631#Comment_120334631

Our washing machine and dishwasher both have delayed start so you can set them to come on late at night. Dryer has it too but not comfortable running that at night (too noisy anyway).

fafy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334845#Comment_120334845

We set the finishing time for 7.30 usually, and someone is up at 6:30. If weather is bad, we finish washing machine earlier, and pop it into drier at 6.30, so its almost done when night rate ends. A few behavioural habit changes, are required to max this out !

We got a new heatpump drier, about 2 years ago, a “Bosch Serie 6”, it was a bit more expensive, but a very noticeable reduction in power consumption, and its very quiet !

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334616#Comment_120334616

My night rate is 97% of my total usage. The 9 hours is enough to charge my car and house batteries every night so we dont use day rate

fafy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335197#Comment_120335197

Wow, very impressive ! Is there an argument to be made, for no solar panels, just get the battery and charge it, constantly for 9hours each night on the night rate ?!!

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335229#Comment_120335229

Yep. Say you got a 20kWh battery and the difference between night rate and day rate is 30c and you charge the battery once every night and use it all up during the day, you'd make about 365 days * 20kWh per day * €0.30 saving per kWh = €2190 per year. Minus charging and discharging losses and you would only use 90-95% of the battery, but you get the idea.

20kWh in cells is about €2600-€3000 and you'd need about €300 worth of BMS, a fuse and a couple battery cables, disconnects, etc. With a battery inverter like a Sofar ME3000SP costing about €600-700 second hand. Pay back time ballpark 2 years for a DIY install (need qualified electrician to hook up the inverter to the grid though). And less again if the difference between night rate and day rate gets bigger

You'd also do the rest of the country (and the world) a big favour in helping to stabilise the grid. This is very environmentally friendly and will save an enormous amount of fossil fuel to be burnt during the day to generate electricity for peak demand times

unkel

And I put my money where my mouth is. I use 98% night rate (7.9c / kWh incl VAT) and last night I upgraded my power wall from 45kWh to 55kWh (I do have a lot of solar PV too though and all my cars are EV)

fafy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335352#Comment_120335352

Cogs are racing around the brain now !

Any recomendations, on which organisations to ask/quote for such a setup ?

Currently on Energia EV plan, these are after discount:

Night rate of 8.58 cent incl vat

Day rate of 29.82 cent incl vat,

so a 21.2 rate difference.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335410#Comment_120335410

My figures are based on buying the cells and making your battery pack yourself. This is easier than you think, have a look here:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246061/10kwh-lifepo4-diy-battery-addition-here-is-my-write-up

If you go pre made battery packs, these are very expensive (and of inferior quality to home made systems) and your pay back period would be much longer, easily twice as long. If you need a man to set it all up for you, payback is longer again, probably not worth your bother.

fafy

Thanks, not sure DIY is for me, and i am lucky to have a few contacts in this industry, who could get me pre made packs, and all the equipment/cabling, at, or around cost.

In an ideal world, if the pre made battery packs, were the same cost wise, what are the better brands to watch out for ? Appreciate they are not as good.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335551#Comment_120335551

None of them are great, some very poor, particularly the ones with several small pouch type cells in parallel, like Pylontechs. If I were to buy one, I'd get one with EVE type 280Ah cells, heavy beasts though, but one massive pack would have 14kWh of capacity

Even if you're not great at DIY, have a good look at the thread that I linked to though. Many of us in the renewable energy forum had not done anything like this before, but it's very doable (provided of course this area interests you and you want to save a few grand on the setup (up to tenths of thousands of savings for a big system)

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335229#Comment_120335229

Absolutely

For most of the oct-mar period of the year, I'm loadshifting and using any solar PV as a bonus. Then for the rest of the year I charge with the PV and dont top up at night. But the savings are there if you just install a battery inverter charger and 20-40kWh of DIY battery. Theres a whole forum on boards - renewable energies - dedicated to this.

I;'m very ham fisted and lazy when it comes to DIY generally but I have no issues with this

unkel

That's it, what @ELM327 said in a nutshell

In my case, the first reason I am going with such a big system, is that I expect the difference between night rate and day rate to become bigger, or at least the night rate period to become shorter. So I want to be able to charge the battery as much as I can, as quickly as I can

And second reason is to prepare for dumping my gas heating for electric heating. Doing as much as I can now (simple electric heating) and also planning for heat pump / air conditioning system install, hopefully before summer. Or at least by the time my now 10 year old condensing gas boiler gives the ghost

fafy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336357#Comment_120336357

When we got the heat pump in, the original Potterton gas bolier was removed, not one issue ever with it, 27 years in service

unkel

Modern condensing boilers are very efficient (about 98%) compared to your old boiler which was probably around 60%. But their lifespan is much shorter.

Heating with electricity is far cleaner anyway, so trying to do that as much as I can, even making substantial investments so I can do it.

Spipov

Right so currently whats the best smart rate to have, average use household dual fuel use, with ev arriving soon?

with bord gais, hive 2 year offer, out of contract paying. 47 cents 24h i have a smart metre. Didnt know could have refused a year ago

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120337192#Comment_120337192

Finally a post that's relevant to the thread. Your first move would be to contact BG and ask them for their 39.5c (18% discount) customer retention rate, that's what I'm getting from them, it a 24hr rate. I also have a smart meter but it's unactivated. As soon as any of the providers drop below 39.5c for new customers I'll move.

unkel

Fook me. Is 40c a good rate these days? I use 98% night rate and that is 7.9c (incl. VAT) although I do go over the 2000 max units per billing cycle for that rate, and pay near double that for the units over

Dreading renewal time (August for me), but the only relevant rate to me is night rate fortunately, I've worked hard to get there and spent considerable money.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339422#Comment_120339422

I've been keeping an eye on the market in advance of renewal (end of July for me I believe) and Energia 47c day 13.75c night is still the best deal out there. Your use profile is similar to mine

sprocket123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339422#Comment_120339422

Be good if you could blog ow you got there (I know it's a big ask!) but be interested in your journey

Padraig Mor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339422#Comment_120339422

Similar dread here. Also on the Energia EV plan at an even cheaper 23/6.5c rate .... But it's up in a few weeks! Current version of the plan still seems to be the best comparative value - but at literally over double the rated I'm posting now....

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339463#Comment_120339463

Ah it's a long boring story. Basically started with a few panels DIY and a plug in inverter on my crusty old shed about 6 years ago and slowly upgraded over the years, currently have 11kwp in panels, 55kWh home storage and 19kW of inverter power. The only upgrade left is another 5kwp of panels on my north face roof, hopefully before the end of this month.

sprocket123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339581#Comment_120339581

where did you source your 55kWh storage and how much did it set u back?

Dayor Knight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120337192#Comment_120337192

Have a look at your usage profile. What will your weekly mileage be on the EV?

We currently have the Electric Ireland weekender plan - zero rate on Saturdays (8 am to 11 pm) along with rate of 43.46 c for the rest of the week, day and night.

I look at it this way:

With one free day, the effective daily rate becomes 37.24 (admittedly a little worse as it's not the full day free).

After that, everything you can move to Saturday (or Sunday if you picked that) is charged at zero, and brings that effective rate down. Some people prefer to move usage to a night rate. We find we can move a lot to Saturday (washing machine, dishwasher etc). Not all of course, and you some stuff you can't, like daily water heating (do you use gas to heat your water?).

Above might not be enough to justify this plan, but if you can get away with charging your car once a week, on your free day, this is where the gains really kick in. So that depends on your daily and weekly mileage. A weekly charge is just about right for our ID.3.

Solar panels? We have a 3.4 kw system installed, and can use this for some topping up during the week - of course your car has to be home while the sun is at its best, at least one of the days. It also help hugely with the water heating during the week, so we're keeping a lid on usage at that higher rate.

I'm trying to get my head around the usage data at the moment, and intend to post on this thread at some so people can get an idea how this works out.

Bottom line - your EV will likely be your biggest electricity use by a long shot - charging that at the lowest cost possible may well be the best option to go for, but of course you need to look at all the factors that come into play for you.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339868#Comment_120339868

Long story again, lots of buying and selling over the years, but 50kWh of that is 80 CALB 200Ah cells from PWOD official store on AliExpress. Got my latest 16 yesterday, paid just over €1300 for them in the last sale at the start of January

Spipov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340463#Comment_120340463

Thanks for that. Is there a day/month kw usage limit?

John arse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339497#Comment_120339497

I'm personally looking to see prices drop this year-wholesale price is now lower than before the war in Ukraine started.The companies are coming out with bullshit about a lag in prices/hedging etc.The price should surely come down as quick as it goes up but they're obviously screwing the whole country royally(as per the fuel companies,price up instantly and then very very slow to decrease).Don't think we'll see anything until the government credit is out of the way though-if only there was a price regulator???🤔🤔🤔

Dayor Knight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120342541#Comment_120342541

No specific limit but they say they will contact you to take you off the plan in case of "excessive use" (not defined). I haven't had a problem so far and as long as it's normal domestic usage, including car charging, I am not expecting an issue (look back through this thread over last couple of months for some discussion around this).

Once you sign up for any smart plan, you're stuck with the smart meter alright. if you think a day/night meter would work better for you, you may be able to get the smart meter replaced for a day/night, as long as you haven't activated the smart meter (by signing up to a plan). Again, read back a bit on this thread (what a pity we can't search the threads like before - a big loss of functionality).