Overpopulation

SomeGuyCalledMi

Can we really tell women in Uganda to have fewer children so we can continue to drive around in SUVs?

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445257#Comment_118445257

No; you need to implement this worldwide. It'll have more impact if booming (population) countries drive towards a 1 child policy, but it'll be helpful if wealthier countries do the same, especially if the magic 2 deg. C limit is broached; there won't be dry land for people to live on, even in wealthy countries.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443096#Comment_118443096

There’s a lot of goalpost shifting here. If I prove that carbon and GDP aren’t coupled it’s onto something else. If I point out that many countries are in population decline it’s onto something else again.

It’s great that you feel virtuous about wildlife in Africa, but what remedies are you suggesting here? What kind of population control are you suggesting gets implemented solely in sub Saharan Africa? Who do you think is going to enforce this population control? Westerners? Whites?

And why can’t rhinos be protected even if there is population growth? That just takes laws.

2ndcoming

Population decline is a bigger issue, all the lads on here and the Bro Rogans who couldn't pull a bird if the future of humanity depended on it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443529#Comment_118443529

Neither Asia or South America are in any kind of population explosion. We are running out of Koreans in particular

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445300#Comment_118445300

Er, God no. We are running out of westerners fast enough as it is. What would convince you that there’s no population explosion in the west*? Stats won’t do it - so what is needed?

also, the only country that has ever had a mandatory 1 child per person law - a totalitarian dictatorship - has reversed that policy recently. The Chinese now think that was a mistake and some economists think it may stall the Chinese economic ascendency

* and most of Asia and South America.

Glock17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446204#Comment_118446204

When we give food aid to an african country we should insist on population control.....

No population control no food. Maybe lace the food with contraceptives.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446280#Comment_118446280

Define West then. Because the EU has not been growing for some time compared to, say, the US whose population has tripled in my lifetime.

And if you datapoint about decoupling Carbon from population, why hasn't the worldwide CO2 level dropped in the time period you mentioned? I'll give you that the EU's contribution might've been shrinking in that time, but overall, it's rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. You should focus more on ensuring some quality of life for people, not promising them goodies that are undeliverable if they just rode bicycles/drove electric cars/flew in electric airplanes.

Or will all this work out because the surplus population in sub-saharan Africa and Asia will move to Ireland and Italy? Going to give them all bicycles and electric cars then?

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443524#Comment_118443524

"...the rope with which we will hang ourselves" more like

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452434#Comment_118452434

:D

Thinkingaboutit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439089#Comment_118439089

Population growth has severely trailed off outside Africa. That is not wholly positive for the measures take in PRC have famously resulted in a severe lack of young people, an essential economic input. Unlike even Russia, which can draw on Central Asian workers for any shortage, China does not have anywhere to plug the shortfall, and the Chinese themselves are not usually fans of the Laowai intruders into the middle kingdom. Human efforts to curtail population growth usually work out badly. Africa's population growth is substantially a result of a combination of functioning basic services, with food shortages only usually occurring in places where its transport is constrained (The Live Aid Ethiopian Famine of '84 was almost solely the result of the Dergue blocking food shipments to regions in rebellion), deliberately or otherwise, alongside a substantially subsistence economy in many places. Subsistence farming drives population growth. This suggests that commercialising agriculture in Africa (alongside rejecting ruinous 'land reform'), plus tariff reform to encourage African manufacturing and financial services will push people into cities where substantial numbers of children are a liability to the family economic unit. Population will find its own level.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455977#Comment_118455977

China does not have anywhere to plug the shortfall, and the Chinese themselves are not usually fans of the Laowai intruders into the middle kingdom

That's a common misinterpretation. They're not welcoming towards many foreign groups, but that doesn't mean that they won't allow them to enter and work. Chinese people love to feel superior to others, which is why there's so much demand in "White Monkey" jobs. At the same time though, you'll find sizable amounts of Indians, Pakistani, Africans etc coming to China to work both skilled and unskilled positions. Fact is, in any city, you'll find more people from the M.East, or Africa than you will Westerners..

In any case, China is facing serious problems with unemployment right now. Too many people educated to expect better positions, just in time for the economy to turn against them. In the past, a host of pointless jobs (like... uniformed guards but not actual security for shops) were created to help with the population needs for employment (due to the push for people to move to the cities), but with a lowering population those useless jobs could be dropped, freeing up a sizable percentage of the population for needed positions..

China could manage quite well with a smaller economy. The issue is more to do with the demographic shifts in the rural/Urban areas, and the loss of those who used to do most of the seasonal migratory work across the country (who are aging and dying off, along with uplifting of large parts of the population through education). China is facing the problem that S.Korea and Japan faced when their population became educated to meet the needs of a higher economy, resulting in a loss of low-skilled workers with low expectations for their standards of living.

In all likelihood, China's economy is going to stagnate resulting in many college/university educated people ending up in these low skilled positions, and a return to the more traditional views of what living in China would be like. Piss poor, for the most part, and hiding your wealth behind closed doors. China's slowing population growth or achieving negative growth, isn't going to be a major problem for decades. They've got plenty of room to play with their existing population... people shouldn't be so quick to believe official estimates of anything coming out of China.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447402#Comment_118447402

Why don't we do the same for people who receive benefits or unemployment from the state? No benefits without consumption of contraceptives.

Glock17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118457248#Comment_118457248

It's hardly unreasonable to expect people to try and improve their own situation when asking for charity...

Places in africa dont have any food, and they need food from the outside world, or they literally starve to death. Do you really think they should still be knocking ten kids out?

Maybe you dont care about all the wildlife in africa getting killed, but other people do....

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118457433#Comment_118457433

I am agreeing with you, irish people on unemployment need to improve their own situation by consuming contraception in return for the dole. You might not care about all the wildlife in our native Ireland but other people do.....

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458219#Comment_118458219

why should everyone be expected to work?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458497#Comment_118458497

They're expected to work if they're claiming welfare/supports. That welfare/support is supposed to be temporary in nature (if they're physically/mentally capable of supporting themselves) If they're able to support themselves without working, then I doubt anyone would be bothered.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458497#Comment_118458497

I am just highlighting the hypocrisy that this treatment , forcing contraception on those who need charity/support, is acceptable to some people for Africans but I imagine not for Irish people.

I think a page ago I read the term "mixed bred", the racism is transparent, I thought I had been transported back to the 50's.

Glock17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459246#Comment_118459246

It is africa that has a booming population.... not ireland.....

At the time of the famine In 1984 Ethiopia had a population of 39 million. It now has a population of 120 million..... all the other african countries have had similar population increases.

It's hardly sustainable..... you obviously dont care about elephants etc going extinct in the wild, however other people do....

Jump_In_Jack

People using Ireland’s deforestation to claim Irish people are somehow at fault for that should read up on our history, our land was exploited by the Brits. We didn’t cut down our forests to give them our timber voluntarily. To reverse deforestation now would take a huge political movement against building more houses, and that’s not going to happen unfortunately.

We can still point out that cutting down the rainforests etc is a bad practice, despite our forests having been stolen from us.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459333#Comment_118459333

Nearly all the forests were gone by the time the Brits started felling trees here. Also they've been gone a long time and still we are bare of trees, a few sitka spruce tree farms for profit doesn't really help biodiversity.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459644#Comment_118459644

Not even close, look up 1543 Henry VIII’s Forest Act, they wiped out our forests for hundreds of years. Only when they were gone and we had 1% left did we start replanting and now up to 11% and climbing gradually.

https://www.forestryfocus.ie/forests-woodland/history-of-irish-forestry/forestry-since-tudor-times/

gozunda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118464417#Comment_118464417

You can add another 4-5% tree cover from hedgerows, river banks etc.

As for reasons behind the destruction of forests during the 16 and 17th centuries

Following the various plantations of Ireland the majority of land in Ireland was appropriated by British adventures and settlers with woodlands and forest cover being exploited and razed for a variety of reasons including:

• To prevent the Irish from using woodlands as base to attack from.

• Meet the demand for ship-building timber, mainly oak, as England built up its navy.

• The use of wood especially oak for making barrels which were exported to be used elsewhere and charcoal manufacture ditto

• The reconstruction of London after the Great Fire of London in 1666.

Oddly some people seem to like to blame the Irish for just about everything...

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118464417#Comment_118464417

About 9 of that 11% is sitka spruce, doesn't really count

walshb

Yep. Population increase leads to so many issues. Projected to be what, 10 billion by 2050 or so?

and so many more people online spouting utter bollix. This is a far bigger issue than a few centigrades added to the globe’s temperature

gozunda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118465746#Comment_118465746

Incorrect. About 5.5 of that 11% is sitka spruce - ie just over 50% of all planted forests in Ireland are made up of Sitka Spuce trees. . And yes even conifers count when it comes to carbon uptake.

gozunda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443759#Comment_118443759

Just to follow your last comment. Why the disinformation when things like this can be easily checked?

All soya does not come from South America. There are 2 countries which dominate Soy production globally. The first is Brazil, the second is the US - wihe bulk of all Brazils soy being bought and exported to China.

In Europe, where soy is also grown- the soy used for animal feeds tend to be soymeal and soy husks - the left overs after oil is extracted for human consumption.

Cattle in Ireland are mainly grass fed and that includes saved silage fed to . Animals housed in winter may get fed supplemental feed made up of a variety of ingredients and not just soy.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467037#Comment_118467037

I would say the amount of deforestation due to provision of feeds for Irish agriculture is miniscule in the grand scheme of things.

I don't agree with feedlot type operations or some very intensive beef production units, especially those owned by certain beef barons.

But for the very most part most farmers try and feed their animals home grown grass crops, because it is cheaper. Yes they have supplement the grass derived feed (silage or once upon a time hay), but the main feed for most farmers is good old grass.

We don't engage in the level of stuff that say the US or Canada have with massive maize fed feedlots.

A lot of that is due to fact they don't have the grazing or the grass growing capabilities we do.

Just look how many bales are returned per acre in say the beef capital of Canada, Alberta, in comparison to most of Ireland.

Hell half the year they are under snow and then they have hot summers will low rainfall.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443293#Comment_118443293

The brits cut down most of indigenous forestry years ago for shipbuilding

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467037#Comment_118467037

the overwhelming majority of irish cattle is fed grass, very few air miles in feed overall. Much better carbon footprint than fake meat, avocados, even insect protein they keep harping on about. Its all big air miles (and not great on water usage either).

irish beef and lamb are some of the most sustainable meats you'll get anywhere. Fertilisers now are a different story, and apply to most veggies grown too - if you want to have a go at farmers environmental records, then the use of imported fertilisers maybe. But grass fed beef (with small % of finishing feed of soya or other grains? lol yeah right, because thats whats killing the planet 😉)