Spousal abuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408887#Comment_118408887

I think education around consent in schools as part of RSE is an excellent idea.

While many parents are able to talk to their children about these issues, I've known far too many who are not and are uncomfortable with havng those types of discussions. Or probably worse - they have outdated ideas around consent is themselves, and pass on bad information to their children.

So, in my view, learning about these issues in the classroom is actually in the interest of both males and females and can only protect both.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409988#Comment_118409988

But it should be up to the parents to teach basic manners and rules. If you accept that some/ many can’t do it then you add more responsibility to the schools just because people are too stupid to do basic parenting.

Either way I don’t see how consent classes or nonsense like this will have an effect on spousal abuse. The abuser knows what they are doing and is ignoring these pretty little taught wisdoms, so no schoolroom teaching will change their mind. Same for the victims.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408707#Comment_118408707

your standard reminder that the phrase 'toxic masculinity' was invented by men, as part of mens movements in the 80s and 90s.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410044#Comment_118410044

It will empower the victims to recognise abuse as abuse at an early stage.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403961#Comment_118403961

It's only the same thing in Offaly and parts of Wesmeath

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410085#Comment_118410085

No it doesn’t. By the time they are in an abusive relationship and used to their role they won’t even think of this.

It makes far more sense to remind people of types of abuse (as they will not realise what is happening to them) and that there are non judgmental helplines should they want to talk to someone.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409988#Comment_118409988

the way you characterise parenting is riddled with progressive ideology

" outdated "

" bad information "

magicbastarder

to be fair, most national schools in ireland teach a religion where a central founding myth of that religion is that a god decided to impregnate an illiterate peasant girl and present it to her as a fait accompli, so maybe schools do need a counterbalancing narrative about consent.

Deregos.

We just got back from a family holiday with our friends. We hadnt seen a lot of them recently because of Covid.

We love them to bits but didn't realise how toxic their relationship has become. He can do nothing right apparently and he's clearly scared of her. They have a special needs child and I don't think either of them can see a good future ahead. She's staying up late drinking then lying in bed all day, the child is being raised in its pyjamas with an ipad, no interaction or activities with other children bar school. We know they need an intervention and counselling but how do we go about suggesting this without causing more upset to them?

My wife has tried talking to the mother but is met at every stage with anger and denial.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410044#Comment_118410044

Sadly, many people do fail at basic parenting. Which is why RSE in schools is a good idea.

As regards to spousal abuse, it's not that long ago that non-consentual sex within a marriage was not seen as a crime, due to what was considered "mutual matrimonial consent". Now, thankfully, that is no longer the case.

Abusers can (and no doubt, will) take the risk of ignoring these "petty little taught wisdoms", but the abused can have them charged for it, if they do.

JupiterKid

Early January is a very busy time of year for domestic abuse shelters and services, alcohol and drug rehab facilities and psychiatric hospitals. Every year without fail. The excesses of Christmas and alcohol abuse are the primary reasons where issues with respect to spousal abuse come to a head.

Well, that’s what happened for the friend of my best mate who finally walked out on his very abusive wife of 13 years. I think I had posted about his plight on AH last year. His wife is very abusive - has been for years - mainly emotional and psychological abuse but she has hit him a few times, including in front of their two children, aged 11 and 8. She is about 5’ 3” and he is about 6’ but is a very gentle (and decent) chap. He is 44 and the wife is 41.

So he finally walked out of that toxic situation on New Years Eve and is crashing at my mate’s gaff. His wife now wants to move back to Spain and take the kids with her but as they were born in Ireland I don’t think that is legal or possible. The family courts and solicitors will of course be involved. Apparently his 11 year old son - the older of his 2 kids - wants to live with him going forward.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410398#Comment_118410398

In the best case scenario they will ignore it, in the worst case they are will use the learned material to their advantage.

Good luck to anyone trying to get someone convicted of emotional or psychological abuse. I believe the conviction numbers are very low.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410325#Comment_118410325

I'll take that as a compliment, even though I know you didn't mean it as one. 🙂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410459#Comment_118410459

Off topic, and for another thread, but the threat of her moving to Spain with the kids is an empty one, it'll never happen. At age 11, his son will be most likely be allowed his own voice in the proceedings (if he is no coerced).

This is the type of man that there should be some place for him to go, rather than the uncertainty of a mate's sofa. Maybe he can be the first man to apply for temporary rent supplement, as he is fleeing a violent situation (details posted above).

I wish him all the best.

shesty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410389#Comment_118410389

I am not excusing that woman.But she really needs help.The effect on the child and husband are a result of whatever she is struggling with.

I wonder could you ring Barnardos or Tusla for advice?The problem is that unless she wants to help herself, forcing intervention on them could only be done the hard way of reporting them as parents or similar and that probably wouldn't change the dynamic between the parents - would it?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410171#Comment_118410171

That's the point. Educate them on consent and they don't get into the abusive relationship in the first place. They see the red flags early on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410325#Comment_118410325

It's always funny when you use progressive as a derogatory term when the rest of the world sees it as something generally positive, or progressive even.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410536#Comment_118410536

The legislation around coercive control is only in place for 2 years. First convictions were last year, which isn't surprising.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410657#Comment_118410657

“Educate them on consent and they don't get into the abusive relationship in the first place. They see the red flags early on.”

Do you really think it’s that simple?

Anyone’s head can be turned if the circumstances are right. You might be totally trained up on recognising the signs, but that does not mean you are immune from entering an abusive relationship unknowingly.

Deregos.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410637#Comment_118410637

Exactly, what we're also worried about is making the situation in anyway worse for any of them. We really do want to help and realise that the mother is the key, maybe she has to hit rock bottom before things begin to improve.

Not sure about contacting Tusla or the likes, would feel like we've betrayed them.

Thanks for your concern and advice.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410755#Comment_118410755

It's not that simple, but it's a good step in the right direction. Some heads will still be turned if the circumstances are right (or wrong). Others will see the red flags and jump ship at an early stage.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410657#Comment_118410657

Progressive is a politically and ideologically loaded term nowadays in the majority of cases

shesty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410763#Comment_118410763

I can understand that.

I would consider ringing one of the agencies just for advice but like you I would be reluctant to report.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410839#Comment_118410839

Progressive is a politically and ideologically loaded term nowadays in the majority of cases far right circles.

py2006

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410069#Comment_118410069

no idea bout that. But who is using it today to bash men?

Larbre34

Again, conflation.

Toxic masculinity is the demeanour and behaviour of certain men in a way to suppress, diminish and dismiss others, including other men. In fact often other men.

Spousal violence and abuse, is spousal violence and abuse. Are some men who display toxic masculinity also abusers? Probably, yes, but that's not what we're talking about.

In fact I'd find more sinister the street angel and house devil type. The lad who is the life and soul in public and who lashes out at his partner at home. That's what really scares me.

One of the things I'm both most proud and least proud of happened when I was about 25. We discovered through some female colleagues in our large office that a another recently married young female colleague was being frequently assaulted by her husband. Four of us paid him a visit and beat forty shades out of him. Yes we assaulted him too.

Does that make me feel guilty now? Yes. Did the abuse of the woman stop? Yes it did, but not so much because we beat him, but more because he knew that other people knew he was violent. That bothered him more. They parted very soon after and happily she married again and had a family with a very decent loving man.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410934#Comment_118410934

Hardly , the Liberal left routinely describes their politics as " progressive "

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411628#Comment_118411628

No such thing as " toxic masculinity " , only toxic individuals

No-one would countenance " toxic femininity "

It's designed to demonise maleness and is a deeply harmful term

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411628#Comment_118411628

Any I've ever know to be "wife beaters" were the street angel house devil.

Slimy slithery types. The big ape with the west of Ireland curls and hairy hands that you think eats his young are never usually

I've know one guy in particular. He's a great lad with the women. Really pleasant too to talk to until you speak to a few of his ex's

He was fond of his fists

mariaalice

The sadist thing I heard lately on this issue was a young woman being interviewed about her husband who was abusing her and she was now separating.

She said I thought he was different because he wasn't ghosting women, he answered txts and was very attentive, so not being an arsehole is now a warning sign that something could be wrong?.

Personally, I think a lot of it is cause by self-esteem issues with a personality disorder where they are disinhibited and lack empathy.

Their interiors and their exterior world do not match and they blame others including their partners for their own failures.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412489#Comment_118412489

I agree with your assessment that the “victim” side of the story is not free of responsibility.

If that is what you were saying, because as usual I am not sure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404828#Comment_118404828

A mate of mine called the Gardai on a stalker ex who popped around. The Gardai literally stood talking to him while the stalker was on his back as if being piggybacked. He had to point out the window she broke from the outside in that situation. It's really not taken seriously. If you go in alone and possibly with fresh injuries they might feel like they actually have to do something.

1st and 2nd hand experience of the courts will be another thing. Only the other day a mate mentioned custody of his kids over Christmas. His ex (now she's heard he's seeing someone) cut off all contact, wouldn't discuss presents or timings or anything else, she dropped them off on Christmas day without any headsup and said she'd be back in a week. She took them back 2 days early. She dragged him through the courts and even now won't follow the crushing order the court gave her.

Another guy got arrested for "harassment" by refusing to leave outside his ex's house. Hadn't seen the kids in a month, her sister (at the time on heroin) had moved in and all the court orders were being ignored. He fought and fought for 5 years and got nowhere. An order basically saying the previous order needed to be followed.

Another mate got smashed across the head with an ashtray.

Another mate found out a few days after getting married that literally on the wedding night the wife decided she's going through his phone whenever she feels like and he isn't allowed to have a problem with it.

My own parents, ffs mam threatened to call the Gardai whenever she was losing an argument. Any mate I've said it too are the same, the **** they remember their mothers coming out with during rows, unreal.

I've found out more of my friends' secrets just from their significant others screaming at them than being told at this stage. 😂

If the stuff in the ads is the bar for abuse then it's one of those laws it'll pretty easy to target someone with.