Irish language gets full EU status today

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410352#Comment_118410352

How about removing all English Language signs and replacing them with dual "Irish and Ulster-Scots" signs instead?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412324#Comment_118412324

So is that a "No" ? You shouldnt respect it ?

btw, you've used "you" in there quite a bit, I think you're assuming I'm Unionist and anti-Irish. Nope.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412145#Comment_118412145

Good on you. I’m impressed. You have a great grasp of our wee language/dialect. Could I ask approx what region of Ireland you are from?

For years hardline unionists ranted that "Ireland would be a cold house for loyalists" and people like me would scoff at that. No offence, but page 10 of this thread does their job for them.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412451#Comment_118412451

There are very few English signs, as you have just pointed out. Most are misspelt Irish.

Speedline

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412549#Comment_118412549

Those 'misspelt' names are now accepted as the official place-names. All that's happening is the correct irish spelling is being added.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412539#Comment_118412539

What does that mean

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412531#Comment_118412531

Lets just say I'd have to be driving in a car for an hour or so to cross the border

Some of the words were educated guesses but some were common words. I think "craic" was in there and a misspelling of whist etc. "wee" might also have been there. There were also some extremely trivial ones like "aye" for yes.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412627#Comment_118412627

Well I have no idea what ‘whist’ means. Never heard it before. Is it the equivalent of whisht? As in ‘howl yer whisht’

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412687#Comment_118412687

Same as whisht. You can spell it however you want. Usually used to tell someone to keep quiet.

I think it actually derives from the Irish verb "éist" to listen

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412627#Comment_118412627

As I read your post It reinforces how rich a wee place ni could be if we could just genuinely respect and value the richness of both main cultures, and indeed the newcomers.

We have unique sports, unique parades, unique languages/dialects, and it would appear we are headed for having unique access to all European markets. And one of the wonders of the world 🙂. The future is bright

it’s a shame there is such antagonism but hardly surprising I suppose given the 30 years of violent conflict.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412727#Comment_118412727

So whose political policies are blocking all of these great things?

Include the answer to what you didn't answer earlier...is there any party/politician actively blocking rights for Ulster Scots?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412772#Comment_118412772

I didn’t answer your question as it seemed rhetorical as the answer is so obvious. Gerry Adam’s admitted that republican volunteers have spent years trying to stop Ulster Scots culture. It’s endless. Most recent one is that every year Sinn Fein take this huge interest in the health and safety of Ulster Scots young people ‘for one night only’ 😂. The can’t sleep in their beds worrying that some young loyalists may fall off a boney or some unionist’s drainpipe may get melted. They are so concerned they want to put processes in place to prevent these terrible dangers. They don’t get the irony that they burnt Ulster Scots to death not very long ago for being Ulster Scots.

republicans have completely blocked Ulster Scots culture in my small town. They have blocked all parades, burned our Ulster Scots Presbyterian church, burned the school our kids went to and put a no warning bomb in the only street that was exclusively Ulster Scots.

I could go on and on. So don’t ask silly questions.

lurleen lumpkin

The high scores on the Ulster Scots quiz just reinforce the dialect argument, and that it's in less peril than Irish.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412861#Comment_118412861

Utter victimhood rubbish and again, not a shred of backup.

Your nonsense outed.

There is one political ideology ONLY blocking rights and equality = Unionism.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412936#Comment_118412936

So Gerry didn’t say that?

is there any particular bit you would like me to provide bullet proof evidence of?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412917#Comment_118412917

Yeah I would agree again.

I would think dialect fits better although the EU disagree and regard it as a language. And yes it is in less peril than Irish - and interestingly there is little interest in signage and translations. It’s just alive.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412949#Comment_118412949

You have just admitted that you see sectarian, bigoted and racist taunting from the top of your boney's as part of Unionist culture. Any decent democrat would want to see the end of that.

Now will you answer...which political parties are actively blocking all the 'great things' your wee country could be?

Please provide back by way of links.

boardise

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410438#Comment_118410438

This post is as inaccurate as it is unnecessarily abrasive. Language shift is quite common and much studied in sociolinguistics.

A language shift from Gaelic to English began as early as the 17th C. It gathered pace and by the middle of the 19thC the die was cast as a result of the Great Famine and the coming into being of the National school system in 1841.People fail to realise that school attendance was not compulsory until much later - many Irish parent voluntarily sent their children to school and were quite happy that fluency in English would result. It was a most enlightened collective choice of which subsequent generations are clear beneficiaries.Thus Irish people today have the inestimable advantage of being able to use their own version of a highly developed global language system which projects them to a position of political,economic and cultural prominence hugely disproportionate to their population size and enables ready and advantageous communication with large swathes of the world's peoples. Had our ancestors decided to keep using Gaelic as a communication tool they could have done so . Fortunately, they chose wisely.

Languages and cultures change all the time - there's nothing God-given about any particular sociocultural disposition . There's no implication of any disparagement of Gaelic which is well worthy of study ( I happen to be a Gaelic scholar myself). Gaelic just lost out as a spoken language in the general historical rough and tumble that characterises human life everywhere at all times. History cannot be rewound. As the saying goes 'C'est la vie'.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409142#Comment_118409142

Unionist bigots - including those who last autumn issued threats against an Irish-language *checks notes* pre-school - often try to smear Linda Ervine as not being authentically unionist, But as I already told you, her loyalist credentials are impeccable, and she is very proud of her British identity.

So now as well as spoofing, you're waffling and dissembling. You do know Linda Ervine. It's just that she doesn't know you. Your 'I don't know her in person' guff is just that - guff. I don't personally know Cristiano Ronaldo, but I'd look like a right horse's arse if I tried to pretend he doesn't exist. Likewise, I don't know Ian Malcolm, but he definitely does exist. Look him up when you have a moment to spare.

lurleen lumpkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412972#Comment_118412972

I pointed out a contradiction of yours and you swiftly moved on, if that's a love-in you tear away 😆

If you agree Irish is in more peril then maybe ease off a bit on resisting and obstructing efforts to keep it alive?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412992#Comment_118412992

Now francie if you were responding to me on a post like that. You first comment would be that I was a liar. For you to say I “have just admitted that you see sectarian, bigoted and racist taunting from the top of your boney's as part of Unionist culture.” is absurd. It would be like me saying that if you support the GAA then you have just said that racist abuse of black GAA players is part of Irish culture. Wise up.

secondly, your reply to a request for a comprehensive list of links to evidence everything I have said, would be “go do your own research”.

I have asked you to pick anything I said in that post that you believe to be untrue and I’ll endeavour to get you the evidence.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410196#Comment_118410196

Do you also think that Scots generally has "the same linguistic authenticity"? It is recognised as a minority and regional language by the UK and Scottish governments, UNESCO, and the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413023#Comment_118413023

What nonsense. I would not say I know chistiano Ronaldo. Try saying that the next time you are out for a few pints. Maybe our cultural settings are different, but you would get some Ulster Scots directed at you if you said that in a Belfast pub.

I don’t know what you mean by loyalist credentials. Yes she was married to a Uvf killer turned niche politician who I had a fair bit of respect for. I honestly don’t know where her politics lay then or now. I try not to judge strong women based on their husbands.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413051#Comment_118413051

I honestly had no idea what you were saying re contradiction.

maybe I am doing Irish a favour by telling it to turn off the aggression and the signage and turn in the crack and the dialogue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412711#Comment_118412711

'èist' is also the word for 'listen' in Gàidhlig - there's a lot of overlap between Gaeilge and Gàidhlig, and of course a fair bit of overlap between Gàidhlig and Scots.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412972#Comment_118412972

The EU? Are you sure it's the EU and not the Council of Europe?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413094#Comment_118413094

Dearie me. It's no wonder I stopped reading after the line where you tried to dismiss Linda Ervine as not a real unionist. Not something you'd have the guts to say to her face, of course.

Anyway, good luck with the sealioning.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413195#Comment_118413195

At no time did I even imply she was a non unionist or lesser unionist.

I would ask that you show us all what words of mine gave you this message.

I have no idea where Linda Irvine’s politics lie, but clearly you do. So why don’t you tell us which party you think she votes for?

this is pathetic nonsense being directed my way.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413290#Comment_118413290

That’s not how it works. You have made spurious accusations and then refuse to evidence them. This is what drags discussion into nastyness.

I will assume you have no evidence

lurleen lumpkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413352#Comment_118413352

'She certainly takes a very unusual position for a unionist (if she would call herself a unionist)'

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413412#Comment_118413412

So please do tell us what is wrong with that? 100% accurate. Her position on Irish language is highly unusual for a unionist. Her late husband’s party takes a very different position as does every unionist party in ni.

I also did not want to assume she regards herself as a unionist. There is a huge vote in her constituency for alliance who are pro Irish language. So if you asked me to guess l, I would guess she does not vote for a unionist party. But you will note I qualified my statement by saying ‘if SHE would call HERSELF a unionist’. I couldn’t have been more respectful or fair. Indeed if I recall correctly, I actually explicitly said I respected her. If I didn’t, I’ll say it now. I like people who challenge the status quo

anyhow, I understand why you are suspicious of everything I utter.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413054#Comment_118413054

The only objections Adams or anybody else has to your wee 12th is to the bigoted and sectarian displays downcow. If you are claiming they (Adams and anyone else) want to wipe out your culture...then you are accepting that bigotry, sectarianism and racist displays are part of your culture.

Nobody objects to you marching or bonfring if it is within the law and not bigoted and sectarian. I want to wipe out bigotry and sectarianism from wherever it comes.

I won't be appeasing it to attract you into a UI either.

p.s. I told you to do your own research when you asked me to back up your assertion.

Pity thread is yet another clusterfcuk lead to the dumpster by the pretend unionist(i do admire her fishhooking of the subject matter and bringing to its usual drool conclusion,though😅)

Interesting prospect it being a eu language and provides some potential for irish language interpeters to further carrers within eu instituations,outside of pat fox few years ago we are woefully under representated at the bearucrat level within the EU for a country that is something like 97% pro-european

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413840#Comment_118413840

I wonder has the resurgence of Gael Scoilenna starting to have an effect, in the amount of translators coming available.

Upforthematch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413858#Comment_118413858

Yes I'd imagine so and the Gaelcholáistí even more so.

Upforthematch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413012#Comment_118413012

You must indeed be a scholar or at least a very good copywriter @boardise . I'm impressed how you can describe this example of "language shift" in such politically neutral terms by avoiding all references to colonisation and you even manage to evaluate the emotional status of the people during this process. Bravo.

Let's complete your evaluation of the period.

"In the 19th century, many Irish parents voluntarily sent their children to school through English knowing that there were no other opportunities available for them and were 'quite happy' that emigration to the English speaking world would result. Thus Irish people today have the inestimable advantage of a large diaspora which projects them to a position of political, economic and cultural prominence hugely disproportionate given the small numbers which could afford to remain in Ireland. This enables ready and advantageous communication with large swathes of their third, fourth and fifth generation cousins who often tell stories of the challenges their great grandparents had to overcome as Hiberno-English speakers including racism, humilation and extreme poverty. Had our ancestors decided to keep using Irish as a communication tool they could have done so and perished in a corrupt society stacked against them. Fortunately, they chose wisely to survive."

There are very few of today's Irish speakers looking to rewind history. Instead they are creating their own future with a language so harshly maligned to within a breath of its existence. Thankfully we no longer live in the 19th century and in the 21st century language diversity is now valued and endangered languages especially so. As a self-proclaimed language scholar I imagine you would be sympathetic to this, no? Let's call it a new language shift if you wish.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413352#Comment_118413352

What drags discussion into nastiness is knowing full well that someone identifies as a loyalist, but then posting a snide remark about them to cast doubt on that, because in the bigoted tribal politics of the North casting doubt on the validity of someone's community identification is one of the tactics used to invalidate opinions that don't line up with one's own. It's also a common tactic when behaving badly on social media to insist that the person who points this out to you should go off and waste their time "gathering evidence". I really don't mind what you assume; for my part, I'll assume that the people at Cairde Turas won't be seeing you any time soon.

For anyone with a curious take on the subject, here's a link:

https://www.cairdeturas.com/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413840#Comment_118413840

I think the take home pay for a translator or interpreter is just shy of €6,000 a month, with legal translators on higher salaries. That's no bad thing, but one of my concerns is that it might lead to a brain drain of well qualified and young Irish speakers, when they're needed here. As it is, anyone from a Gaeltacht area who wants to go for a high-end academic qualification or a high-end career with or without Gaeilge has to leave the Gaeltacht, so having them leave the country as well is a bit concerning.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414065#Comment_118414065

I thought boardise's contribution was a classic of the 'whitewash out/or deny' genre, favoured by partitionist/Unionist narrators.

You are correct, the new Irish wave accepts the history (including the Irish state's failures in saving the language), warts and all.

JohnnyIreland

Anyone interested in Irish or English H1 leaving cert notes from a "grind school" let me know! I do not need them anymore

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414187#Comment_118414187

Imagine selling your life for €70K a year, translating EU documents into Irish, that you know in your same heart & soul that practically no one will ever read. What a waste of a life.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415063#Comment_118415063

You can take that attitude to a whole host of careers...silly and a bit patronising there Furse.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415063#Comment_118415063

Will many people be preserving your own life's work for the good of humanity after you pass?

will they set up an oul' institute maybe to preserve it for future generations? 😀

I'm being sarcastic of course but the point is valid. Plenty of people enjoy languages and learning and understanding and using them. You will have people learning Latin or trying to decipher old long-dead languages. There is more chance of those Irish Language documents being read than anything that comes from that. It doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile or that it is any more a waste of life than what you or I do. (Including me posting this sh1te)

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415155#Comment_118415155

I disagree - someone working the tills at Aldi or sweeping the streets would be contributing far more towards the needs of society.

That's what life is about eh? Leaving your society in a better place than it was when you were born. Useful productive work.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415298#Comment_118415298

Sounds more like jealousy tbh

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415288#Comment_118415288

Of course, plenty of people love languages. But honestly, just who reads EU legislation for pleasure?

A moot point here though, is the legal position of these same translated EU documents in this Republic. Will the Irish form of them be considered superior in a legal sense where there are the inevitable differences? Probably already decided as this is a potential minefield with room for excessive legal costs going forwards.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415298#Comment_118415298

More patronising subjectivity.

There is plenty of dead end jobs for the sake of jobs in this world that contribute little to the 'needs of society'.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415331#Comment_118415331

What like yours? Paid to post continuously on matters SF? :)

Mind you, you could well argue that what you do (paid or not) is a more useful contribution. At least a few people read & engage with your daily wisdom.

FrancieBrady

I love taking people to that point when their 'argument' falls so flat on it's embarrassed face they need to engage in a petty bit of invective.