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Irish language gets full EU status today

  • 01-01-2022 7:54am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭ downcow


    I read this today http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6212033.stm

    And today’s Irish times states, ‘Inevitably, many documents will remain unread. Still, Byrne dismisses any critics who claim the effort is a wasteful means of promoting the language. “I think it’s necessary if we are to have any self-respect and our European colleagues agreed to this.’

    i would love to understand better where people’s true feelings are around the language. I live in the north and the language, sadly, has become a daily battle which I think will be very difficult to step back from. I guess, the legacy of a vicious conflict and a lot of hurt on all sides.

    I would love to hear what you guys think is appropriate annual spend in the promotion of the language and what you think of dual signage, both where it is welcomed and non-controversial (I imagine most of the island), as well as where it is very controversial (much of the north).

    it would be really helpful if you gave your reasons eg, it helps tourism, makes you feel more secure in your irishness, educational, the basis of your self-respect, etc. or alternatively eg, it is a waste of resources, creates division, is cultural supremacy etc.

    i suppose a question I have is, why does it matter? And I know certain politicians up here have had very nasty unwarranted snipes at it, but if I can ask gently, whether many of you perceive it as a healthy and admirable ‘interest’ or ‘hobby’, - which I fear some will say is an offensive question, but help me understand why it is not a reasonable view for an outsider.

    I’m all ears



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭ Topgear on Dave




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Now how does one maximise the EU grants, when the only Irish you speak is, "MAhogany Gaspipe"



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭ downcow


    Apologies. I heard it on Bbc news this morning and googled it and didn’t look at the date 😳.

    anyhow, I suppose that reinforces my confusion. This was agreed 15 years ago but seems not enough Irish translators could be found to implement it before today?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭ downcow




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭ downcow


    yes, if we could get everyone in the north on your approach we may get somewhere, but the whole situation is so poisoned that it is going to take generations or at least several decades before unionists can warm again to it. The current approach in both communities is entrenching the issues.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Answer with the quoted text very quickly to any question put to you in Irish. To The questioner it will sound like Irish but they wont understand. The questioner will just assume its a diffferent dialect(ie Donegal Irish) and nod sagely



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,929 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    If you wish to survey the issue of the importance of a language's status, review/google the knicker twisting that happens when it is suggested English will no longer be a working language of the EU.



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,929 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    It will take a while for all the new initiatives around reviving the language to come through. The Gael Scoil surge will be significant as will it achieving status like this in the EU and equality in it's native country.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 56,929 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    A point of order on the OP's post for those who may not know.

    'Dual language signage is NOT controversial in 'much of the north', in fact it exists in much of the north and nobody bats an eyelid at it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭ downcow


    I hadn’t even considered that. That’s a very interesting conundrum. Is there now no English speaking nations in EU?



  • Registered Users Posts: 853 ✭✭✭ Jakey Rolling


    Never mind the cost, I can't imagine a more dispiriting job - spending your life translating documents that no-one is ever going to ask to read. The lad quoted in the IT article seems quite happy with being on this gravy train for now though. Him and 200 others...



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,929 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    You could say that of the output of many governing bodies.

    It's a bit selective to pick on Irish in this way tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭ downcow


    Guys you know right well it is extremely controversial in much of the north. To suggest it is a noisy few is ridiculous. It rarely appears in majority unionist areas and is controversial where unionists are a minority.

    in my wee local area there is currently serious angst going on in relation to new signage. Claims counterclaims and denials on social media among neighbours about the removal of signs etc. Families not speaking who have been working neighbours for generations. But we can argue all day about individual examples. The facts are the facts. There are about 200 unionist political representatives in the north. Not one, yes that is not one, is in support of the proposed Irish language act. That is because they know that trying to find a unionist who wants Irish signage is like trying to find hens teeth.

    It is sad. My community kept Irish alive at a time and it would be wonderful if we could find a way to embrace it once again, but that will require an honest goodwilled exploration of the issues and it seems few, on either side, are ready for that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭ downcow


    I have a friend who is an alliance party councillor who was reared in a unionist tradition. He is now married to a nationalist and living in an almost exclusively nationalist town. He is big into his Irishness and is a big fan of Irish signage. Him and me have very interesting discussions about this issue and I think we have got a better understanding of each feelings on it. He is the only protestant I know who is comfortable with Irish street signs, but I think he would say he wasn’t a unionist.

    where we agree is that we would both equate the feeling of union flags on lampposts and Irish signage, although each would see the other representation as a little more triumphalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,262 ✭✭✭ Furze99


    I sympathise with you as in the case of NI, it's clear that the Irish language has and is being used as a political tactic. Which does it a great disservice.

    Consider for a moment that the Republic achieved control of it's own affairs in 1922 and yet it took till 2003 for the Official Languages Act to be brought in, which act effectively legislates for the enforcement of our constitution. That's 80 years.

    To try and bring in related type language legislation in NI whilst also debating all matters relating to co-operation on the island and between communities, is just plain ill thought out. Should be put quietly aside for a couple of decades at least in the interests of all our hopes and aspirations.



  • Posts: 18,752 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I know protestants who have no issue with Irish signage.

    Equating a Language with flags on lampposts doesn't make sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭ downcow


    I told you I know one as well, and of course there are many who couldn’t care less about it, but it is clear the majority see the erecting of Irish road signs in majority republican areas as triumphalism. Our elected representatives reflect that view



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭ joseywhales


    Ah I see. Yes so I can live with the union jacks, I know I passed through a coastal towns in down a few years back that have a union jack every 5 metres which seems a bit much but whatever, flags can't hurt me, I'll still walk down there maybe with a slight exaggeration of my southern Irish accent, to let them know I don't give a sh*t. I suppose it's easy for me though, I never had to feel threatened by it all not growing up there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,929 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    There is a way...stop insisting it a political weapon.

    Recognise it is part and parcel of your culture. You don't have to like that, you just need to recognise it like ordinary Unionists living in Fermanagh, Mid Ulster, Omagh districts have for ages now and will in Belfast now the council has voted in new rules. .

    I was reading about a Unionist representative complaining about roadsigns and it was pointed out to him that the chain of office he was wearing had Irish on it.

    Unionist political leaders are again out of touch with ordinary people as they are on the Protocol and most progressive/normalisation moves in the north



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭ downcow


    Few, if any, in ni know more about issues facing minorities as form Alliance party minister Anna Lo. Here is what she had to say about comparing flags on lampposts and Irish signage. I am completely with her on this.

    “Alliance regional development spokesperson, South Belfast MLA Anna Lo, said the plan could |create tribal demarcations in |areas because there can never |be a sign featuring the three |languages together.

    “This is akin to people putting flags up in certain areas to mark out territory. This will be like |an institutionalised mark of |tribalism,” she said.

    “Alliance will battle against any measures which could ghettoise Northern Ireland or cause further division. Government should be tackling segregation, not adding to it.””

    https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/bilingual-road-sign-plan-will-just-add-to-tribal-divisions-28581043.html



  • Posts: 18,752 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well, not being funny but that appears to be a problem for those who have the issue. A wee bit of paranoia also. Just because they see something a certain way, doesn't mean it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,929 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    Of course you will get people using it to triumphalise...but like parades and the fleg, you can legislate to prevent idiots doing that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭ Topgear on Dave


    No stress, no pressure. It's money for jam for the lads.



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