Irish language gets full EU status today

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403184#Comment_118403184

i don’t think I mentioned protestants seeing it as triumphalist?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403264#Comment_118403264

No. Not in the slightest

it takes 2 2 tango

If you want to increase the number of speakers and people’s fluency then the teaching method MUST be overhauled.

We need to have at least 2 days per week in national schools where Irish is spoken only. Or even the whole week.

The JC/LC needs to move away from rote memorisation of poetry, prose etc. and focus more on ACTUAL language learning the way we do in German and French etc. Start teaching the present tense first for Christ sake. It was 6th class before I could conjugate verbs in the present tense as we were all taught the past tense first with stories etc.

When we have fluency in conversational Irish then focus on learning off more complicated vocabulary and grammar.

Unions will resist though.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403337#Comment_118403337

To the best of my knowledge they are not controversial and no paramilitary group has been murdering Scots and making statements that every Scottish word spoken is another bullet in that struggle.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403452#Comment_118403452

Sounds from this thread that more than unionists would resist 2 days pw compulsory irish

Kermit.de.frog

"Ulster Scots" looks a bit gas...

it takes 2 2 tango

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403457#Comment_118403457

I see where you’re coming from and I respectfully disagree with you. Yes, there are a number of people who only use the language as a political tool and their knowledge of Irish would barely go beyond Tiocfaidh ár Lá. There are a number of people who are genuinely interested in the language and want to use it benevolently (even I admit that they are few and far between).

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403384#Comment_118403384

Take away the extra points allocated for doing certain subjects through Irish in the leaving cert. It would be easy to get places in gael scoil then.

I know 2 relatives that attended those schools and never spoke a word of Irish again after their exams.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403472#Comment_118403472

Why do they insist on a made up language as opposed to Scots Gaelic?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403486#Comment_118403486

Wow 2 people

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403143#Comment_118403143

I am suggesting the British parliament will impose what has been agreed under the agreement they have with the Irish government. That trumps any Unionist footdragging as we have seen before.

'Dominance'? This is again 'equality looking like oppression' to you guys. Nobody proposing this is seeking 'dominance'.

boardise

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118400180#Comment_118400180

😃 I take it you're referring to the Sean Bhean Phucked ?😁

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403495#Comment_118403495

Very poor attempt at a response

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403533#Comment_118403533

You're right. Talking about 2 leaving cert students when responding to kids enrolling in gaelscoileanna is a very weak response

The Master.

Whats up with the omission of the word "to" in certain sentences that Irish people use?

For example "i wasn't allowed go to the party"

I was neither born nor educated here and it sounds strange to my ear.

Is it a quirk or is it acceptable English?

I've heard it happen plenty times by RTE newsreaders so its obviously acceptable to the masses.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403418#Comment_118403418

I have no idea what butchers aprons are or have to do with anything?

'clear the majority see the erecting of Irish road signs in majority republican areas as triumphalism'

This is what you said about protestants/loyalists

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403653#Comment_118403653

I guess the extra 'to' is superfluous but I can see that verb-verb can be off putting. However there is no room for ambiguity there so I am fine with it.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403486#Comment_118403486

The extra points through Irish are very small. My understanding of the way it used to work anyway was that you got a percentage of the points you didn't get. So if you were a stronger student and got higher marks anyway, then the bonus was very small.

Was it something like 10% of the marks you missed out on? So that if you got 40%, then you'd be bumped up to a 46%, but if you got 90%, you'd only be bumped up to 91%?

I googled and there is a study here from 2010 where over half of the exams assessed received 0 extra points for doing their LC through Irish. https://www.erc.ie/documents/vol38chp2.pdf

You're hardly going to go through 13 or 14 years of schooling through a language you don't like in order to maybe get 5 extra points in your Leaving? Surely you'd be better off doing it through a language you liked (English I presume) and studying for an hour more to get those additional 5 points?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403440#Comment_118403440

I think so too.

What about the other point? If Unionists are allowed to veto Irish appearing on signage in "their" areas, should Republicans be allowed to veto English appearing on signage in "their" areas?

As I mentioned, it would quickly solve the whole "Derry/Londonderry" crap when all the signs just have "Doire" on them!

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403475#Comment_118403475

Oh I completely understand that. I know several people very well who love the language and are heavily involved in promoting it for all the best reasons and their is not a hint of anything disrespectful in their motives. Indeed i have directly assisted their efforts and continue to support one of their groups to in a practical way.

unfortunately though, the vast majority of the unionist community are only aware of encountering Irish when it is written up on walls in republican slogans or threats and they only see it being used by shinners to make political points - as well as the other negative stuff already mentioned.

the irony is that it’s is people like one or two posters here who are creating opposition to Irish. I genuinely would like to see it non-political and removed from the sectarian battle in the north.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404012#Comment_118404012

It’s a fair question and might be a more honest approach as there would be no pretence that it wasn’t marking areas out on who was in the majority.

I see several problems. I don’t know the figures exactly but last census confirmed that the vast majority (maybe 90%) of the residents of ni cannot read Irish when written in its correct form, so getting around would be confusing, although most could have satnav in English for that purpose. It would also mean that signage in some areas would refer to Doire and in others Londonderry. This would be highly confusing for visitors.

again I don’t know the stats but I would suggest the majority of signage in ni is already Irish, but spelt phonetically so as the 90% non-Irish readers can pronounce it. So your suggestion would mean changing most of these to English translations.

there would also be a huge logistical and controversial effort to agree which areas got which signs.

A fair suggestion but fraught with problems imho

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403472#Comment_118403472

I am inclined to agree with you, but I respect those who love and cherish it and accept its official language status by the EU etc.

I have zero problem with your post and certainly don’t take any offence, but it is interesting that I got disciplined on another thread for suggesting something similar about Irish language spelling.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403492#Comment_118403492

could you clarify who you are referring to as ‘they’?

And are all languages not made up, including Scots gaelage?

we could argue whether ulster-Scots is a language or a dialect, but it has been declared an official minority language of the EU. In ni (which of course is no longer a member of the EU) is certainly much more widely spoken than Irish. I am guessing you use quite a few ulster-Scots words daily - although I am guessing.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404012#Comment_118404012

I am not sure the term veto is helpful, apart from introducing a bit of Latin, a language I had the same experience with in school as some posters here had with Irish. Tbh I don’t know how to respond. I wouldn’t regard what we are discussing as ‘veto’s’. I am talking about the need to reach understanding and consensus.

downcow

A very interesting post AdsByGoogle. Imho it says a lot more about you than me.

I have a query running in the dispute section as to whether this is a 26 county forum or not. You are not the first to suggest this. If the answer comes back that it is then I will get my coat and bid you farewell. That would be a very legitimate position to restrict the forum to the one jurisdiction and I would respect that - it will just be good you get it clarified.

Your are wrong on a number (all) of the points in your post

1) you ask, what has this got to do with ni? I am from ni and made a very brief reference in the OP to my local context. If you check back to page one you will see that it was francie, peasea, etc who introduced a discussion on it

2)”Downcow has been banned from practically every thread he has shown interest”. Could you list them for us - if you don’t have time for the full list then give us half a dozen to get started. I think you will find I have been banned from two threads. If you check You will find I have made over 7,000 posts spread over nearly 7 years, but more interestingly you will find that the very same posters who are starting to hound me and up the anti on this thread are also involved very directly in those two bans.

just interesting points for the genuine posters who are contributing various viewpoints to this thread to understand.

and just to be completely transparent, I have reported your post

Report away, Downcow. You know it's true.

FrancieBrady

'Understanding and consensus' has been reached ...several times.

Exactly what is it you are looking for now?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404198#Comment_118404198

Consensus has not been reached in ni, and we’ll you know it. What I find really interesting is that there appears to be more frustrations than I expected in the south. There is a full range of opinions on here already from ‘the government is doing too much’ to ‘the government is not doing enough’, ‘EU is correct to give full status’ to ‘its a waste of resources’.

as for consented in ni; my Council is leading the way and causing great controversy by placing endless Irish signage in the constituency, right through to some councils not putting any signs up

So it is ridiculous to suggest consensus has been reached.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404214#Comment_118404214

So the DUP didn't agree on legislation to get Stormont up and running again?

The 'legislation' Brandon Lewis says he will go ahead with if the DUP don't?

Consensus has been reached on this again and again downcow, but Unionists keep welching on it.