General Irish politics discussion thread

L1011

Foot and bus passengers are frequently but not always checked. Car passengers are rarely checked.

Walk up IPO applicants are also going to include those who survive truck crossings.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083996#Comment_122083996

There’s two steps to the controls in ports when travelling from the UK.

Firstly - the ferry companies are required to gather name and nationality for each passenger. Similar to Ryanair flights to the IK they are not required to check this against a passport - but they are required to check against some form of photo ID.

The ferry companies submit pre-checkin and pre-departure passenger lists to border authorities on both sides - and will often get “do not ship” instructions from one side or the other.

On arrival into Dublin all car traffic passes through a customs gate and a border gate.
At the border gate you will be asked your nationality. If not a Irish or UK citizen you are required to then present a passport.

If you declare Irish or UK you might be waved through, or you might be asked to prove your identity (not necessarily with a passport) and that will be checked against the list submitted by the ferry company.

Seth Brundle

I've been checked a few times coming off the ferry in Dublin Port (having arrived back from hols in France). My guess is that my very healthy tan quickly raises eyebrows. However, a glance at the passport confirms who I am.

Sam Russell

Long before Brexit, I was on a coach going from Dublin to Coventry and after a few miles beyond Holyhead, the coach was pulled over for a check by immigration officials.

Everyone's identity was checked but I noticed a young lady who, by appearance, was of East African origin and failed to rejoin the coach. I assume she failed some form of check, but all others were OK.

So it is not new to check ID on the CTA border.

Brussels Sprout

There's no way that Sunak is going to take any IP applicants back from Ireland. The politics of looking "tough" on this issue is just too good for him. Plus he's pointing out that France won't take them back from them so that they don't lose the moral high ground.

So where does that leave us? I've seen Harris talk about some agreement made a few years ago but that's not worth anything if the UK are saying they won't honour it.

Short of putting up border checks, between the south and the 6 counties, I don't see any outcome from this except us continuing to accumulate IP applicants from the UK.

This is going to be a massive issue in the upcoming elections.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084408#Comment_122084408

The only solution is to have high speed determination of IP applicants.

If the 80% figure of those attriving from the UK is approximately correct, then the decision is that they have come from a safe country (the UK) and should be returned to the UK or their country of origin. A simple question - 'Where did you stay for the last seven nights?' would tell a lot.

All IP applicants should have a final decision within 90 days. Why does it take so long?

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084408#Comment_122084408

Thing is though

If they are increasingly processed as failed asylum seekers,they are getting no state protection,money or accomadation and cannot legally work

Once that realisation beds in at home,why would they still be coming ? They'd want to be right eejits

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084468#Comment_122084468

the decision is that they have come from a safe country (the UK) and should be returned to the UK 

What if the Brits refuse to take them?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084408#Comment_122084408

He is not, though I think it is important politically for Harris to nonetheless highlight that there is an agreement that they are reneging on.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084629#Comment_122084629

They get to rely on charity and sleep in make shift wet cold tents somewhere,not the treasure island story,they had been used to uploading to home on their social media,should have an impact going forward on numbers ?

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084468#Comment_122084468

Agree with a shorter processing time. It must be difficult enough to wait months and not know what might happen. More staff needed for the IPO obviously.

I've asked a few people how the AS process actually works as I don't know, but nobody I asked knew the answer. So do people make an application at the airport/port first and are then moved to various places around the country eg hotels etc to wait for a decision? Or does every AS have to present themselves at the Ipo in mount str first (hence all the tents) and once the application is made, then they are placed in hotels and b&b's.

Sam Russell

The Gov are trying to solve the wrong problem with IP applicants.

They are trying to find accommodation where there isn't any. Any attempt to turn any likely venue is seized on by locals and not so locals to start a protest, and possible arson.

If instead they put in place a defined timetable, with say a maximum time of 90 days, with intermediate decision points where the process can end with acceptance or refusal. For example, if the applicant could apply for a work visa as having required skills then the IP application would be dropped. Alternatively, if the IP application is based on fake information, then it fails.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085504#Comment_122085504

Putting in a defined timetable would involved recruiting hordes of qualified staff and a huge increase in budget. It is not remotely that simple or quick.

If the application is based on fake information it already fails. The problem is that vetting and proving that is time and labour intensive.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085504#Comment_122085504

What do you do with any applicants who entered via the UK and are originally from countries deemed unsafe to return to (e.g. Afghanistan, Sudan or Syria)?

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085589#Comment_122085589

Well, if they are valid IP applicants, then their application should be accepted.

If they have applied fir IP status in other countries, that should have caused their removal to those countries should have been acted on first, but it is not the intention to wantonly refuse valid applicants. Obviously, there needs to be a political agreement with the UK, but probably unlikely during the present pre-election time frame.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081383#Comment_122081383

Don't bring common sense into this debate. The Minister is wrong, they will argue, even if she is explaining that the world is round rather than flat.

The problem of airline passengers destroying documentation is being sorted, but those who come by boat or across the border from Northern Ireland are not being sorted. That means you are correct, that 80% of the immigration is occurring through Britain.

At the end of the day, the only way to meet the objective of being against open borders (now Sinn Fein policy) is to close the border with the North in an assertive partitionist fashion.

Geuze

90 days? Fast-track?

I would call 90 mins fast-track.

Albanian, Georgian = straight away refusal, back on aircraft tomorrow.

Rugbyf565

Ireland has a GDP of $106k. We also have a GNI of $81,070 (putting us 6th in the world). Why is only 32.7% of our GDP paid out as salaries? Where is all the money gone?

The more you examine the numbers the more you realise the sheer depth of irreversible economic inequality that exists today in Ireland. Fine Gael have both mismanaged and created this clusterfuck with their long periods of deregulation and strategic alliances with developers, bankers, consultants, tech tax havens and finance, insurance and real estate. As the ERSI have previously revealed, Ireland is a great place to live if you’re a top 10% earner but not if you’re anyone else outside of that earnings bracket.

The answer is that Ireland is not a real economy anymore, fake money just floats through it—we may as well be Bermuda ffs. Our taxes don’t give us land rights or fair wages, our infrastructure is crumbling-(we can barely get a metro project over the line in the next 30 years), we don’t pay our public sector workers adequately, instead it’s used to funnel equity, fund the private sectors and bail out insolvent banks. Ireland is committing economic suicide and driving out more of its youth work force day by day.

Finance capitalism has left us to ruin, our governments have been carved up. What we’re left with is a dismantling of democracy in favouring of a financial oligarchy, ruled by appointing technocrats.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088030#Comment_122088030

Most of the blame for this situation really should go to Fianna Fail. This all started long before Enda Kenny took office.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084468#Comment_122084468

...but our courts have ruled the designation of the UK being a safe country is unlawful

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088196#Comment_122088196

That is a HC decision by a single judge, referencing a UK policy that is yet to come into force. It could be appealed to a higher court.

I think the UK is not a safe place for anyone, but that is a personal opinion.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088030#Comment_122088030

GDP should never be used as a metric of comparison between Ireland and other countries. It just results in meaningless nonsense stats like in that image.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088196#Comment_122088196

Not an expert, but I believe the High Court was moreso ruling on the process by which it was done. There are already move in effect to correct this and complete the designation.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088030#Comment_122088030

GDP is massively inflated by MNC activities.

GDP pp = 99,267

GNP pp = 71,149

GNI = 71,288

GNI* is an attempt to adjust for the MNC activities:

GNI* = 53,554

Hotblack Desiato

Yeah, there's a reason every lobby group in Ireland says "we only spend x% of our GDP on our pet project, which is below the EU average, blah blah" - well of course it is.

Sam Russell

There are three major problems facing the Gov.

1. The A&E depts in the major hospitals. Patients keep on just turning up and overwhelming the service.
2. The IP applicants. These people keep on just turning up and overwhelming the system.
3. Housing. Every one without a home keeps trying to rent or buy a home and are just overwhelming the supply.

No Gov can magic solutions to these three problems in the short term - no matter what they do. When any situation gets overwhelmed, there is no easy solution

Rugbyf565

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122090114#Comment_122090114

Irish GNI per capita is the sixth highest in the world so your point doesn’t mean anything. The question still stands, where does all this money go?
1)Bermuda: $125210
2)Liechtenstein: $116600
3)Norway: $95520
4)Switzerland: $95492
5)Luxembourg: $89200
6)Ireland: $79730

Rugbyf565

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088617#Comment_122088617

ok I used GNI and we’re still 6th in the world, so your point doesn’t stand.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122090785#Comment_122090785

GNI does not account for the tax haven methods either. GNI* (GNI Star or Modified GNI) is a specifically Irish figure which does attempt to account for "leprechaun economics" (and is somewhat successful in doing so). Using GNI* would move us quite a few rungs down the ladder

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122090750#Comment_122090750

What exactly do you mean by where does all this income go?