General Irish politics discussion thread

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092140#Comment_122092140

It works like this:

A country's GDP is a measure of total economic activity in the country. Ireland's GDP is distorted because it includes the activity of companies that are tax-resident here but whose economic activities are conducted largely or wholly outside Ireland, and whose shareholders also reside largely or wholly outside Ireland. The connection of these companies with Ireland is essentially a bookkeeping exercise.

(This is true to some extent for virtually every developed economy, but it's true to a huge extent for Ireland. This doesn't mean that Ireland'd GDP figure is meaningless, but it does mean that simple comparisons between Irish GDP and the GDP of other countries can mislead.)

So, then you have GNI (gross national income). This differs from GDP by excluding income that is received from abroad, and also income that is sent abroad.

But that still doesn't solve the problem. GNI, as the name suggests, looks at income but not at changes in the value of assets. Certain assets with very high depreciation are held in Ireland in large amounts by foreign companies — principally intellectual property (patents) and leased aircraft. These assets are not employed in production in Ireland or, if they are, the resultant income is sent abroad. Because GNI doesn't account for changes in the value of assets, Irish GNI is inflated by the location of these assets in Ireland.

So we have GNI*, or modified GNI. It's GNI, but adjusted by depreciating the value of those intellectual property and aircraft assets.

It's a bit more than that; there are a couple of other technical adjustments to exclude factors that are represented in GNI but that, in the Irish context, don't actually correspond to any real activity in the domestic economy Ireland.

In essence, GNI* is an attempt to measure real economic activity in Ireland. It essentially represents (a) all the compensation received by Irish workers, plus (b) the profits of Irish-owned enterprises, plus (c) taxes on products. It's not an exact equivalent to the GDP of other countries, but it's much closer to it than Irish GDP is.

Brussels Sprout

Ivana Bacik trending on Irish Twitter. Turns out that wasn't too happy that some asylum applicants tented in D4 last night and decided to tweet about her concerns.

https://twitter.com/ivanabacik/status/1786299611839152279

The responses write themselves really

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093303#Comment_122093303

You're not going to find her having said anything different when they were on Mount Street though

McGuirk, Professor Nepobaby and so on won't have made a noise about it back then

SuperBowserWorld

Ballsbridge is perfect. Herbert park has loads of camping space, could put high rise apartments there too and it's very close to public transport facilities. Whisk you right into town in a jiffy for that coffee at 11 and a stroll in Stephen's green. Grafton Street's a wonderland, diamonds in the lady's eyes and gold dust in her hair etc etc 😁😁

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093303#Comment_122093303

I'm no fan of Bacik - but she's being very deliberately misrepresented here.

Only 2 days ago she was in the Dáil calling for the former Ballsbridge Hospital (which is less than 500m from St. Mary's Church) to be used to house migrants.

Her issue - albeit badly articulated - is that having the state wash their hand of the problem and instead rely on ad-hoc volunteers (such as a priest offering the church grounds) is a bad solution. She appears quite happy to have migrants housed in Ballsbridge, once it's in accommodation managed by the state.

L1011

Verona Murphy's not-a-party is running a convicted criminal (criminal damage and theft), ex SF ex FF ex Councillor as one of their candidates. Really knows how to find them...

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093402#Comment_122093402

I think however the problem is that her solution to use various vacant buildings to house migrants is also unsustainable as there is only a finite supply of these spaces.

Sam Russell

The migrant problem should not be one of finding accommadation.

Migrants are self selecting and just turn up. What is needed is rapid decision making so either they are accepted as satisfying the IP criteria or not. If not, they should be deported rapidly.

If they are accepted, they should enter a programme for integration, including learning English/Irish and useful skills so they can be employed.

Perhaps a spell in our navy boats patrolling the coast.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114355#Comment_122114355

What's this? First I've heard of her having any sort of electoral vehicle

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122115257#Comment_122115257

Wexford Independent Alliance

blanch152

I used to think it was only ordinary people who were completely ignorant about politics and how things worked, and that at least politicians had some semblance of understanding.

Then I saw the latest local election posters from the People before Profit lads promising to sort out Health and Education. Which bit of county councils have nothing to do with health and education do they not understand?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114639#Comment_122114639

I'm sure the Navy would just be thrilled with that idea.

You can not just flick a switch and start processing applications faster.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122115615#Comment_122115615

Well, we need to start processing application faster because the applicants are arriving faster than places can be found.

Given that some applications have applied elsewhere, they should be sent back there.

Those whose application is invalid should be dealt with quickly as they are blocking up the whole process and costing a fortune, let alone frustrating everyone associated with the process.

The mention of the Navy was not serious, but they do need recruits.

Pete_Cavan

A centralised Europe-wide system is needed. Fingerprint everybody applying, if that person has already applied elsewhere then it would be flagged immediately. There would probably be few first time applications in Ireland as most will have applied elsewhere before getting here. Ireland would likely have to commit to taking our fair share of approved applicants from elsewhere but at least they could be planned for in advance and wouldn't have to be housed prior to having their application determined.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122115989#Comment_122115989

"We have to do it faster" is not a solution, it's a desired outcome. All of this takes resources, which we clearly do not have at the moment.

Those whose applications are invalid are currently being dealt with as quickly as they can. No one is deliberately slowing things down.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116269#Comment_122116269

Pretty sure such a system already exists. Trouble it doesn't catch people who don't apply until they reach Ireland.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116514#Comment_122116514

I cannot accept that decisions are taken quickly. They just are not. IP candidates are self selecting and just turn up. They can be from anywhere with any story. Some are valid and some are not.

For a person to be granted IP they must comply with certain conditions. Many clearly do not ab initio, and should be rejected at first instance if there is prime facia evidence that they do not comply.

The country cannot keep increasing the accommodation required, and the only solution is to make decisions on those already here.

Remember, those who can claim IP include the whole of Sudan, South Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Gaza & West Bank, The Congo, Libya, Lebanon, Syria, plus many many other regions of the world where war is rampant. We cannot just allow them to overwhelm this state.

Now if you add economic migrants, and every poor nation would be included.

One of the vox pops of IP applicants said he needed advice on how to hire a lawyer - I think that says a lot as to what is going on.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117110#Comment_122117110

I cannot accept that decisions are taken quickly.

I never said they were taken quickly, I said they were taken as quickly as they can be. Nobody is deliberately delaying things, they are doing it as quickly as they can, with the resources available to them, under the current legal framework.

Simply telling everyone to do it quicker will result in nothing other than further legal cases against the Irish state. We have some pretty obvious comparators in the country next door.

Ultimately, what are all these cases that you think should be so easy to just dismiss out of hand?

Also, literally anybody can claim IP, it does not automatically mean they will get it. Also, while the system needs to be more efficient to remove those not entitled to protection, 15,000 people a year are not going to "overwhelm the state" and we deal with far fewer applicants than most European countries.

One of the vox pops of IP applicants said he needed advice on how to hire a lawyer - I think that says a lot as to what is going on.

Potentially vulnerable people get legal protection shocker.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117135#Comment_122117135

If you read my post I said that those who do not qualify ab initio and are a prime facia case of not complying with IP then they should be dealt with a straight rejection at first instance - not after months of investigation and certification.

The IP applicant that was looking for a lawyer had not yet applied for IP status as I understood it. Vast amounts of money is involved in people smuggling.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117156#Comment_122117156

If you read my post I said that those who do not qualify ab initio and are a prime facia case of not complying with IP then they should be dealt with a straight rejection at first instance - not after months of investigation and certification.

And I would like to know what scenarios you think this covers.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117196#Comment_122117196

Every case would be different but the salient facts will indicate a bogus application for some IP would bes.

dulpit

With all the posters going up, I was wondering how parties decide on transfer pacts between candidates. I'm in Cork and at the European level it's obvious, we get posters for Paul Gavan but not Kathleen Funchion, we get posters for Billy Kelleher but not Cynthia ni Mhurchu, we get posters for that generic blueshirt who's name I can't remember and not Sean Kelly. All are obviously geographic in nature.

But it's the local posters that have me wondering. FF and FG seem to have the approach vote me 1 and then continue your preferences for my colleagues in alphabetical order. But sinn fein have gone with a very specific numbered order.

I was in the Cork City North West Ward and they have the following on their posters (3 candidates):

• Mick Nugent's posters say vote Michelle Gould 2 and Kenneth Collins 3.
• Michelle Gould's say vote Mick Nugent 2 and Kenneth Collins 3.
• Kenneth Collins' say vote Mick Nugent 2 and Michelle Gould 3.

So it seems that on that basis Kenneth Collins is getting somewhat shafted? Seems rather unfair, especially when you consider that both he and Mick Nugent are sitting councillors, but it was only Collins who won a seat in last election (Nugent was Co-opted to replace Thomas Gould who got elected to the dail. The same Thomas Gould who is married to Michelle Gould).

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122124392#Comment_122124392

Should they get enough votes/transfers for 2 seats and not 3 having the bias towards one of the remaining candidates helps ensure they do actually get that second seat. There have been cases in the past where the remaining 2 candidates on a slate of 3 got an even portion of transfers and both got eliminated as a result, even though between them they had enough votes to get the second seat.

It is trying to emulate a list PR system under STV. Yes it is in a sense unfair but there's a reason for doing it that way.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122124537#Comment_122124537

The more you know. Cheers!

Peregrinus

Collins is not necessarily "getting shafted"; he may have agreed to run in support of his colleagues. It's not that unusual in any of the major parties to run candidates intended to attract votes in the hope that they will transfer to more electable candidates. The candidates in question are entirely aware that this is the strategy, and are supportive of it.

dulpit

The only reason I thought he's being shafted is that he got elected in his own right and it's the person who replaced the sitting td in the area who seems to be first preference and the wife of the sitting td seems to be second.

But sinn fein are strong in the northside of cork, could very well get all 3 elected anyway...

Water John

Mary Banotti RIP. A woman who did some service in her varied life:

https://www.thejournal.ie/mary-banotti-tributes-6376994-May2024/

colly10

Anyone know where I can get the full list of candidates for the June 7th elections for Lucan?

Water John

https://www.sdcc.ie/%212XGM49

List

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135410#Comment_122135410

That's 2019.

Nominations have not closed yet.