Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

[Deleted User]

I've got one person next to me..curtains twitching ext...has been known to pick up the phone and report...

[Deleted User]

https://energyd.ie/solar-panels-and-planning-permission-in-ireland/

MAULBROOK

Yep, both head bannegers. If it makes you feel better then get planning. Just saying the majority of solar pv i doubt has planning permission

Bobeagleburger

It's only a matter of time before that 12 Sq metre rule is removed. It's very outdated.

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118366988#Comment_118366988

There is a Bill (not law let) to get rid of it. https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2021/88/

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118365544#Comment_118365544

It's good to have something to aim at. However, it should be mentioned that 8Kwp is a pretty big system. Most inverters only do 6Kw, so depending on your orientation of the panels on your roof....if they were all south facing for example, you'll be somewhat "capped" at 6Kw. You'll also fill a 5Kwhr battery in 1 hr of decent sunshine.... after that you'll be exporting, and FIT is a bit of a joke at the moment in this country. That said, the extra panels that 8Kwp has on a dull day like yesterday would really help - so there is that side of the argument as well.

It's difficult to advise, as what would work for me may not work for you, but I'd probably drop the panels back to 7Kwp and then increase the size of the battery to 8Kwhr. It should be roughly the same money, but the larger battery is more likely to get you through the night time than 5kwhr and then your back generating again. (or using night rate depending on the time of the year)

You can always add panels later, but with 7Kwp, that's a nice big system - should see you right. Course if you have the wonga to do both the panels and the battery .....that's the way to go. :-)

silver_sky

What should I be looking at for 3kWp, 5kW inverter, eddi, and 5kWh battery without a grant?

I already have 1.5kW solar no battery and can't get a grant.

bullit_dodger

Not many installers will touch a previous system, unless they installed it themselves. Partly with good reason, as they'd be "inheriting" the problems that the previous installer created.

Without grant the formula would have to be modified a little.....

€1K per 1Kwp in panels + €1K per 2.5Kwhr in battery + €500 in eddi + €3000 (grant)

So you'd be looking at €8500 or there abouts.

poker--addict

The more I look at this, the grant is a total joke.

The price of the panels, inverter, and battery to buy at SolarCity or some of the UK websites is super easy to see (and buy), to me it looks like most installers even some providing better quotes are pocketing almost 100% of the grant for a single days work.

Am I wrong? I can see why people are going DIY if they have the skills or contacts with the skills.

championc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409371#Comment_118409371

Yes, you are spot on. Look at pricing on Midsummer.ie or solartricity.ie. An installer will have a trade discount of at least 20% off those ex-VAT prices.

So shocking when you therefore see the overall markup being made by the 8 croud.

The SaaS guys were clever in giving themselves a guaranteed income for 10 years.

bullit_dodger

Absolutely championc. It's shocking to see the level of over inflation that's being done on the quotes with some of the bigger companies. I've said this before, but don't forget that the better value installers are -still- making a profit with the lower prices, so in effect it's profit on top of the profit as such. As for "ohh but we supply a superior product or after-sales service"......it's nonsense. Nonsense.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409371#Comment_118409371

The grant is a gift..... for the installer, if you look at the new spread sheets,we can see that some of the best value was non grant installations.I have a local green CC bleating on about the great grants available but had no reply when I asked him to comment on price gouging.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409371#Comment_118409371

The same thing happened with insulation companies when the grants came in.

The base price rose to ensure that the profit margin of supplier/installers became pretty much their margin plus the entirety of the grant.

When self purchasing the gear and hiring a qualified installer is working out cheaper than hiring local supply and fit with a grant?

Its a sure sign the system is bolloxed.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410299#Comment_118410299

Interestingly enough I still feel that companies are entitled to charge whatever they like for a product. Free-market-economy and all that. If they want to charge 50% more than what the product costs and they can find buyers to purchase said product.....well it's not really down to you/me or your local councilman to stop that. That said, it never sits well with me. I'd say 90% of people who get solar in, are doing it for one of two primary reasons.

• Want to do their bit for the environment
• Want to save a few quid off their leccie bills.

Or a combination of above. My issues is that it's a black box to virtually most people. They don't know what an inverter is anymore than a ground based residual circuit breaker. So companies prey on that lack of knowledge. it's a shame really as we could have more people with solar in this country.

This forum helps channel the knowledge to stop that. In time those big companies (and we all know who) would have to drop their prices to be competitive. Well, that's the theory anyway :-)

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410353#Comment_118410353

Agree with most you say but when taxpayers money is involved in the form of a grant, I think its reasonable to question market practices and inquire about market distortions caused by the grant.Value for the taxpayer is I believe overseen by the office of the Comptoller and Auditor general and it regularly looks into these matters, at the end of the day government should be ensuring the highest uptake of solar and I do not think that will happen with the current system.

As an aside. is the current grant system limited to 70,000?

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410472#Comment_118410472

It's a bit different when you think about it from the perspective of the government. They have allocated €3000 quid to people like you and me as an incentive to get solar in. If you take advantage of that money and pay €4000 quid for a system or €8000 for the same system, the government (from their perspective) has a citizen who now has a solar installation in place which they didn't previously. "Job done" there as far as they are concerned.

That's not to say that I think it's right - in fact if you look back over the last year, you'll note i think it's scandalous ..... only that it's not their job to police and guide people to get the best value for money.

What actually suffers, is that people have a figure that they are willing to spend on solar. Be that €5K or €8k, whatever. And they are ending up with a less powerful system than they could have gotten by being fleeced - and that's a shame, but "Caveat Emptor" as they say.

poker--addict

Companies are entitled to charge what they want in a free market, but the second a grant is introduced free-market economy theory starts to diverge from reality. Without straying too far into economics, there is a major issue with grants. They can drive prices up unintentionally if they are not administered and reviewed correctly. This is compounded if there are unwritten gentlemen agreements between some providers to game the system, or just a general unspoken about wisdom that it suits them all not to rock the boat. I dare say, in my opinion, something has gone wrong in the irish solar PV grant environment.

I haven't got a quote from someone without a grant, its free money for them after all? Happy to check that out if someone can provide a recommendation.

If I was in "power" I would cut the grant completely and subsidise via other mechanisms (that will in time likely have their own issues too).

bullit_dodger

I think I'd have to agree with most of what your saying, particularly around the fact that there might be better ways in incentivizing solar uptake poker. There are alternatives, but virtually all alternatives have some drawbacks. Take implementing a good FIT, such as a "net metering". Excellent idea if you have solar, but one of the main drawbacks of solar is the high upfront costs, which really hampers lower income families to get the initial installation cost together. Ironically it's large lower income families who'd need the benefits the most. So a good FIT doesn't help them get €6-8K together.

Another idea would be to have a government owned installation company doing a "not-for-profit" installations. Course that then introduces unfair competition in the marketplace. You can't win!

There was another thread about what grant replacement could look like and removing VAT from renewable equipment (solar/wind/etc) was mentioned. I like that idea, but again, if the reductions are slowly eroded over 6 months with small price hikes and ultimately the consumer doesn't see the reduction....that's not great either.

Nahh I hate to say it, but while there's a lot to dislike about the current grant scheme - it's (probably) not as bad as we think? They've improved it a bit recently with the removal of that nonsense 2011 rule. If they would do something about the limits (4Kwp really isn't a lot when we're moving to an EV world) I think they'd be on a winner.

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409371#Comment_118409371

You are on the money.

Grants are great if you get a good deal. A lot of people are paying well over the odds, even with a grant.

yankinlk

The grant has nothing to do with price gouging. If the grant disappeared tomorrow the quotes would not change a single cent.

People are generally lazy. They don't come to a forum and spend days or weeks learning the ins and outs of how to get a good system for a good price. They want a quick answer....

Sales people give quick answers (at a price). Many people can afford to pay that amswer/price and dont bother checking if that makes mathematical sense.

The best thing we can do here, is to pin the FORMULA in the "start here read me first post".... (1k per Kw etc)

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414413#Comment_118414413

True dat.

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414413#Comment_118414413

Agree largely with your post, but I don't believe for a second quotes wouldn't change if the grants disappeared.

I think it would become much more competitive.

Also mentioned before but that formula should be just a guide. There may still be better deals out there. That's why people should get a dozen quotes if necessary, and not just the same few you're messaged with on here.

yankinlk

No disrespect but I call that imagineconmics. There are other more immediate influences on the price then just the grant. Supply, covid, demand....

There is no better resource in Ireland than this forum... but we can't make folk come here. We could organise it a bit better tho, present the info better.

jim-mcdee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356806#Comment_118356806

I'm not sure where these prices are coming from that seem so cheap. Because its not the crew from NI who I found the cheapest but a disaster to deal with. those prices are about 10-15% higher than my best quote (very similar system). a lot here must be getting mates rates or something because I cant get close to what they say "should be paying" and I've tried quite a few at this stage, several of them suggested by boards members who turned out to have even higher prices that some of the 'rip-off' installers that are well known. I'm currently looking into partly DIY fitting and getting help from a local electrician and forgoing the grant altogether. Some have reduced the cost in this way so it might be worth investigating if you know an electrician.

yankinlk

How can a company be a disaster to deal with if you haven't even got then to do an install yet. 2nd post by you reported

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415117#Comment_118415117

Nobody said other factors aren't at play. That's unfortunate for any newbies. However, if the best people can hope for is 1k per Kw AFTER grant as you seem to be suggesting (still high) then anyone not receiving the grant may never get payback.

When I got my quote it was priced with no grant. The grant was left up to me and was simple. Any quote I asked for was without grant. Maybe fairer quotes were given then, not sure?

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415291#Comment_118415291

Tbf, maybe he's having a bad experience so far with them. I've seen people say the same about other companies. Communication issues mainly.

It may be a legitimate beef. Is this the place for it? Probably not.

idc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415291#Comment_118415291

A company can still be a disaster to work with before install is even performed. Things like not responding to emails / calls. Fair enough if you havn't paid a deposit then you can move on and find a different company, but if you've paid deposit and hear nothing for weeks/months not knowing if company still exists then that is a valid reason to consider that company a disaster to deal with pre install.

(no idea exactly what cause was in this case though! if user had elaborated more it might of made sense, there was a company whereby various users had issue with communication a few months back)

yankinlk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415509#Comment_118415509

Customers can be be disaster to. Impatient, looking for responses over Christmas in a pandemic. Let him defend his post not you.

yankinlk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415455#Comment_118415455

To be honest I was told the same formula in October, and my quote from Enniskillen was very close. Look back at my request for feedback on my quotes and I was still told, it was a bit too high.

Now look at my install details in the spreadsheet pinned to this fourm and low and behold I'm delighted to have one of the lowest euro per KW.

Transparency is what this forum should be defending. Not letting grumpy folks come in and rubbish a company that they haven't even become a customer of yet.