Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386683#Comment_120386683

You need one of these AFAIK https://midsummer.ie/buy/HuaweiSolar/02406294 I won't ask the price you paid for the Huawei gear because it's usually expensive!

iotbud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386847#Comment_120386847

Yeah it cost a fair bit but I had the cash for it so will earn more than the money would.

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. Is there much wiring involved in that Backup Box do you know? Box seems ok pricing but the only video I found for istall was lad inserting 3 wires into it.

Thanks again

iotbud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386807#Comment_120386807

Thanks. Yeah put in backup but got endless posts.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386957#Comment_120386957

I have no idea how long or complicated the Huawei backup box is fitting it, I had a change over switch done on my Solis inverter which is basically the same thing done in about 15-20 minutes but inverter and consumer unit were situated in the same spot so not much wiring to be done. @HotSwap is familiar with them AFAIK if he see's this post.

iotbud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387002#Comment_120387002

Thanks Con757, really appreciate your replies.

mel123

Would i be absolutely bonkers to investing in a solar system, winter months at the moment im between 150-200 every TWO months. System is 11k-2k credit, so 9k (includes battery)? Have gas also i.e no heat pump. No electric vehicle at present, but the chances are my next one will be.

boosabum

Investing is the correct term to use, if you have the money just sitting in a bank earning minimal interest then think about it. If your a mortgage holder and the system gives you a better ber rating and allows you to obtain a green mortgage rate then factor that in also. Look into the placement of the system, have you south facing roof ? Of your looking for A ROI then factor than into any decisions you make. An ev In the future, think about load shifting for that too.

smax71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380612#Comment_120380612

I've just got a response from one installer saying the company is not in the business of submitting NC6 forms in advance. Is this a bit unreasonable as it's always likely to be submitted early given the nature of the lead time for installation? Is anyone aware of any intances where the early submission of an NC6 caused a problem for the installer? I may have to move on from installer and I really do not want to restrict the potential level of generation any more than it already is with a 6kw inverter limit

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387002#Comment_120387002

@iotbud yeah I understand how it works.

the box basically sits between your consumer unit breaker and the inverter.

the backup box then has an additional output labelled “backup” which is normally (when you have grid power) live; but also will remain live if you have battery after a grid failure. It drops off for about 1-2 seconds and then comes back. This all has to be configured in the installer settings of the app; but it’s just a couple of settings.

if you have a T-N-CS earthing system (your Neutral and Earth are combined on the grid side of the meter and the grid acts as your earth) it’s possible that you don’t also have an earth rod; if this is the case you will need to get one installed.

then you gotta decide what you want to do with your backup output; some people just wire it to a wall mounted double socket near the inverter or somewhere useful like a utility room.

but for me after putting so much money into the battery; it seemed like a cop out to not try and wire it in better; so what I did was:

I routed that backup output back to the main consumer unit and picked some of the existing circuits to be “critical load” circuits. I went with kitchen sockets, upstairs and downstairs lights, the boiler, a new circuit dedicated to the internet modem / router / Wi-Fi gear, and a socket in the utility room, and the feed to the huawei smart power meter.

the electrician (and you really do wanna be using an electrician for this bit) reconfigure the consumer unit so that the above circuits are being fed from the backup box backup feed; and left everything else (including the “main” feed to the backup box supplied directly from the grid. It’s important that the neutrals between the backup circuits and the grid circuits are totally segregated here or you will have your RCD’s tripping.

if you have the 5or 6 kWh huawei inverter your backup box can output 5kWh to these backup circuits; if this is exceeded the inverter will error out and you will have to manually reset it. This 5kWh limit does not apply when the backup box is operating in on grid mode.

the other thing that I did that would not normally be done is that I don’t have the “fireman swicth” as people call it. Myself and my electrician have both read the regs on this; and as I have externally accessible DC isolation switches we both feel the regs are satisfied; and the interlock of the backup box prevents us ever back feeding power to the grid when the grid is down. This allows me to continue to use the solar PV to power the backup circuits / charge the battery in the event of a grid outage. You have to be careful here and satisfy yourself that your not breaking the rules; if your electrician has ever installed a backup generator before he will be most of the way to understanding what is required / possible.

ask any questions you need; just make sure you tag me so I see them. Or DM me also; it’s all good.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388584#Comment_120388584

It HAS to be submitted at least 20 working days in advance of commissioning the inverter; to connect the inverter without 20 working days passing after an NC6 submission is totally not acceptable.

you should just submit it yourself (you’ll need a RECI electrician to sign it) stick down a huawei 6kwh 27A inverter and you’ll be covered. Then just inform any potential installers (after you agree a price with them) that the NC6 is already covered off.

it takes a couple of months for the ESB / your supplier to catch up and reconfigure all the backend systems to support the fact that you can export (and get paid for it) and also short list you for a smart meter if you don’t already have one. so you will just be getting a head start on all the crap that usually takes ages to happen after a typical install.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386683#Comment_120386683

I’m working backwards through the posts; you have exact same setup even the same panels as me (you just have 4 extra panels). I hope you have the 6kwh sun2000. Even with the 6kwh your gonna be clipping a lot of power.

would you consider upgrading to 15 kWh battery to max out the battery controller?

see above post for backup box setup; it’s a joke that installers don’t mention this to people, most of them just can’t be arsed doing the extra work

do you have access to the installer options? Are you charging at night from grid?

if anyone is interested I have my huawei gear integrated into home assistant; and I have routine setup to set the % that the battery will charge up to each night based on the forecast solar production of the filling day. I can write that up somewhere if it helps someone.

iotbud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120389279#Comment_120389279

Thanks very much HotSwap for the detailed reply!

iotbud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120389420#Comment_120389420

Yeah I plan to add another 5kW battery next year, apparently you can daisy chain these

I have the 6kW inverter also

Not charging the battery from the grid at night, didn't know it was possible. I suppose a night rate is required here? I think I have access to the options via the app, would that be the way to do it?

Can you explain clipping the power? The most we've got on a day at one time (looking at the app) so far is 8.7kW

I'd be interested in the Home Assistant . I have KASA smart plugs lights and cameras which I could use on this as they're not homekit compatible.

Thanks again for your input

iotbud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120389325#Comment_120389325

Yeah this is what I was told too.

We've no smart meter but EI told me that we'll be assigned a budgetary amount based on the output of our system and be paid this until we get the smart meter.

HotSwap

@iotbud your inverter is more than likely ruining in “max self consumption” mode.

you would need to change to “TOU” (Time of use) mode - where you define periods where the inverter will charge or discharge. So when you get your smart meter and let’s say you go for the night boost tariff from Electric Ireland where you get low rate between 2-4am you would set this as a “charge” period; and then set everything outside this period to “discharge”. You can also define what the max % to charge the battery to from the grid. Have a look here: https://support.huawei.com/enterprise/en/doc/EDOC1100167258/ff9f37a6/setting-the-grid-tied-ess-mode

there is also a toggle switch somewhere else in the settings to enable “charge from grid”.

you have 22 x 415w panels; so the max they can output is 9130W (9.13 kw). But your inverter is limited to 6000w (6kw) so if it’s full sunshine and your panels are outputting max; and your battery is fully charged the inverter will only pull 6kw from the panels; not 9kw. You could have done a different application to ESB networks and got a larger inverter (or 2x5kw inverters); but it’s too late for that now.

if your battery is not fully charged the inverter is capable of charging the battery at 5kWh and also feeding the extra 4kwh to your house / the grid.

if does spring to mind that you are above limits of that inverter: each of the jinko 415 w panels has a max voltage of about 32 volts. Assuming you have split the panels into two strings that gives you 32v x 11 panels per string (that’s 352 V) so 352v x 2 strings is 704 V max. But the max input voltage the 6kw huawei supports is a max of 600 (as a high limit) but the MPPT only works in the range 90v-560v. See here: https://midsummer.ie/pdfs/huawei-sun2000-2-6ktl-l1-datasheet.pdf

I would think in this configuration if you have an issue with the inverter you’re going to hit problems as huawei will point out that it is not installed within the limits of their spec sheets. I would raise this with the installer; but there is no easy solution outside of removing some panels. The installer will say you have a combination of S and W panels on the string so you won’t hit the max; but you will. It’s also bad practise to add panels pointing in different directions on the same string. It’s possible they put optimisers on some of the panels which would mitigate these issues slightly. Do you have optimisers do you know?

you can add one more 5kWh battery module to your current install with very little effort. If you want more than 5 you need to also get a new battery management module and as you say daisy chain it into the existing one.

iotbud

@HotSwap great information there, thank you. Wish I'd thought of coming here to query experienced people in advance!

I will query the installer on what you've mentioned above. I've no idea re optimizers.

I'm getting an EV next month so I'm hoping to dump as much as I can to that to keep it charged, therefore I'm hoping the maxing out of the battery will not occur too often and I can use as much energy as possible from the system. WE use the Eddi too to heat the hot water and max that out also.

radiofoot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380670#Comment_120380670

Looks like I will be able to get the 6Kwh inverter, so thanks again for the advice on that. I have another question - based on the layout of my roof, it looks like I will have to put 10 panel on the West side and 5 on the East. I understand that this means I will have try to do more washes etc. in the afternoon but just wondering if this setup would be ok other than that.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120391958#Comment_120391958

Have a look at this app and see where the sun will hit your east/west roof over the year to give you an idea of where the best place to put the most panels will be.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.gr.java_conf.siranet.sunshine&hl=en&gl=US

radiofoot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392099#Comment_120392099

Good App. Looks like the roof is facing almost dead on due East/West. The problem is that I don't have a choice about how many I can put on the back (east) - the maximum is 5 because we have some Velux windows. So, I was going to put the other 10 facing west. The app is showing an even split of time that the sun is over both sides of the house. It looks to me like this is still a viable setup, but just wanted to check here in case it's not.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392153#Comment_120392153

This app will show you what each side will generate roughly, just enter the details so you have an idea of generation for the year.

https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/tools.html East/West is a good orientation if that's what your only options are. Not as good as pure South but still good.

bullit_dodger

I've a very similar situation to what you are planning. I've 4 panels on my East facing roof and 10 panels on my west facing one. Works very well. While the overall output of an E/W spilt doesn't generate as much as a due south facing one (it's about 85%).....in my opinion it's a better layout as you get a longer production profile through the day rather than this massive spike at noon which sometimes can be hard to consume all the power. For example, with an E/W split you can wash the clothes at 11am and then put the wet clothes in the dryer at 2pm when it's finished the wash cycle. If all your power production is at noon, it can be difficult to "self-consume" it all.

Main advice I can give you is fill every available piece of space on your roof. If you can fit 6 panels on the east instead of 5.....do it! This is the most important piece of advice anyone will give you. Course it depends a little on your consumption, you don't want to needlessly install panels when you don't use much, but in a few years we'll all have EV's and heat pumps and the electrical consumption of the average household will probably double in the next decade.

radiofoot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392214#Comment_120392214

That site is great. Looks like I will have a 10% reduction in overall annual output compared to splitting the panels evenly on East and West side, which is still worthwhile. Thanks.

radiofoot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392299#Comment_120392299

That's great to hear, thanks.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120390926#Comment_120390926

Yeah. You can also configure it to export / power your house (and charge your car) as the priority; and then only start to fill the battery when the inverter reaches the 6kw max it can output on the AC side. This setting is called “fully fed to grid”. Read the docs I sent above. It’s not that bad.

I suspect (depending on how much you drive) you may want more panels when the EV comes along. But I drive more than most; so maybe that just my take on it.

supue

Received a quote for an 8.8Kw setup

22x400W Canadian Mono Panels

Solis 5K-48ES hybrid inverter

Rensolo roof mount

Emlite M19 check meter

DC Isolator, AC Isolator, Shunt Switch

5kwh Dyness battery

Eddi Water Diverter

BER not included

13.5K after grant

Home usage is one electric car at present with a Zappi charger. Have a spare Zappi whose wifi didn't work and wasn't requested to be sent back, could I install a second charger as we'll likely have two electric cars in future? Should I request a 6K inverter also, will the 5K limit the amount of electricity which can be generated?

Usage is relatively high at home, 7.9kWh over past 9 months on a D/N meter so keen to offset as much as possible with the right setup.

radiofoot

Hopefully the last question on my quote. I have some shading from a large chimney to the south of my west facing roof. We are now planning to put 11 panels on this roof and I was going to get some optimisers installed until I researched it last night. From my limited reading, it seems to me that the panels will manage the shade well enough themselves without having a significant effect on the rest of the array and that I am creating a potential maintenance headache down the road if I install the optimisers for limited benefit. I have attached photos from 14:23 and 17:34 yesterday. I am currently leaning towards leaving the optimisers out and would appreciate any advice.

Thanks.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394909#Comment_120394909

That's a good quote, if you try and get the 6kw inverter which you should, the NC6 form needs to be received by ESBN before May 31st before the new rules come into place with the max inverter capacity of 25amps.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394994#Comment_120394994

First of all you should ask as many questions as you need. This forum exists purely to help people - without questions, no forum.

Looking at your roofs, I'd say you would need optimizers at least on the panels adjacent to the chimney and possibly the 2nd panels away from the chimney. Optimizers are about €50 each, so they shouldn't massively increase the installation cost. The issue is that if you have a panel shaded (even partly shaded) then it brings down the production of the entire array. So you could have 9 panels in the sun generating 300w each, but then 1x panel which is shaded by the chimney and generating 50w, then the entire array will be dragged down to that 50w.

The length of the chimney shadow will change as the day goes on, and also from winter->summer, but since the roof is west facing the chimney is to the south and that will cast a shadow from 11am onwards, your going to need optimizers I reckon. You should discuss with your installer to get their opinion on it also, but I'd be surprised if they don't concure.

smax71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120389325#Comment_120389325

Thanks for advice. Not sure if there is a cost issue here but I'm hearing that some installers dont want to quote for 6kw inverters, advising they will be obsolete post 31 May and not possible to procure. Seems the 5.5kw is all that some want to run with even for quotes being agreed now. I'm still trying to agree a quote for a 6kw because I cant see why you would voluntarily agree to install something that is smaller than you need and currently compatiible and available to buy.

radiofoot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395432#Comment_120395432

Thanks for the quick response. The reason I was concerned about this was that I had seen a couple of videos that indicated that the bypass diodes in a panel would deal with shading without affecting other panels in the array. If this is not the case, then I will go ahead and get the optimisers. Posting the links below in case they are of interest:

https://energyd.ie/solar-pv-panels-and-shade/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GvhDhCSJgo