Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

DC999

Mine were only 10w lower output. Was around 3% less output. So it wasn't cowboy stuff. But I want that 3% for the lifetime they are on the roof.

Worked out better in the end as got 1 extra panel free.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120096563#Comment_120096563

They ended up using more roof space than was originally planned to achieve the same KWp that was contracted; and only did so when challenged by the customer. He was left with an impossible decision to make on the day of the install; tell them to go home (and end up with no solar PV - prob what I would of done) or accept that he had dodgy guys working for him and try to make the best of a bad situation. Not great.

would they of also filled in the incorrect kWp value in the SEAI grant applications? Potentially claiming a higher grant than they were entitled to?

what if this customer wanted to expand his panels in the future using the space that is now taken up with the additional (lower capacity) panels that were needed to reach the contracted KWp.

no excuses can explain this behaviour and they should be reported and removed from the SEAI registry. For me this is a clear example where the lowest price isn’t always the best quote.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120096638#Comment_120096638

Where does someone say "They ended up using more roof space than was originally planned to achieve the same KWp that was contracted;" I can't find that post? Asides from that I am not getting into an argument when the people who received different panels are happy from what I can see.

If you don't agree with the way things are these days with supply issues tell the installer to do one and find another one. Simple as that.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120096703#Comment_120096703

He said it above; they had to install an extra panel to make up the difference. What if they didn’t have enough room to install that extra panel; he would have been left short. it’s just unprofessional simple as that.

Supply issues don’t explain the installer not being transparent about the different capacity panel they attempted to install. They only added the extra panel when the customer raised the point with them.

I have a high standard for the people I allow to work for me so I look at it in a different way (I’d be getting a written quote with specific make / models of equipment listed); if people are willing to work with installers like this who are not transparent about what equipment they will be installing and swap things at the last moment this unfortunately allows that type of behaviour to become the norm and makes things worse for everyone. If most people called these types out they wouldn’t try to get away with it in the first place.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120096788#Comment_120096788

Please highlight were it was mentioned extra roof space was used. As I said I am not going to derail this thread arguing with someone. As you stated you would not accept that so fair play to you, others might not want to wait another 3-9 months or longer to find another installer.

bullit_dodger

Yeah if you wanted 350w and a supplier rocked up with 340 watts, would I (really) be that pushed? Dunno to be honest. More disappointed that I didn't get the biggest system I could on the roof, but would I cancel the whole thing? Probably not. 2-3% wouldn't really make that much to a muchness, but yeah sure if you wanted 400w and they came with 350w panels.....I'd be expecting them to make up the difference in an extra panel or two. You pay for the size system usually on the quote.

Supply issues do come into play due to the long lead times, but they should be upfront about it. Nothing wrong with being transparent about swapping panel "x" for panel "y", within reason of course.

Least that's IMHO

machalla

Quote received. Does this seem high or normal for these times?

System size: 6KW - PV Panels – Longi 410W Pane x 15

Solis Hybrid 6KW Inverter

Weco 5.3XP Battery

Installation, certs, paperwork, etc

Total cost: €16,800 including VAT.

SEAI Grant - €2,400

Price after grant - €14,400

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120097051#Comment_120097051

Panels 200 each. 15*200=3000

Inverter. 1700

Battery. 2400

Roof Mount. 700

Cables / Isolation / Misc. 200

So it’s about 8000 (inc vat worth of gear) and they are charging 16800. so they are charging 8800 to install it all for you. Maybe they will have a team of multiple skilled workers on site and get the job done in day; and perhaps that’s important to you; I would ask how many people will be on site and for how many days to justify the 8800. Unless they claim it’s going to take them a week with multiple on-site each day I don’t know how they can justify this.

after the grant it works out at 2400 per kWp which is a lot (I have done ground mount systems with 10kWh battery’s for close to 2000 per kWp; and there are considerably more costs when doing ground mount); but this is being driven up by the fact that the battery is included in the bundle; ask for the price for the same system without the battery (but ask them to keep the hybrid inverter - as you might add a battery later; so only one thing on the quote is changing) and see what they come back with so see how much they are marking up the battery over the 2400 it costs using my prices above.

hope it helps

machalla

Hi Hotswap, really appreciate you looking at this.

I will try your suggestions and I am seeking other quotes. Interesting to see the wild variations in price.

olympicweights

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120097051#Comment_120097051

Going by the general pricing guide I'd say around €10k would be a good price after grant.

jkforde

yep, that's high, I'd get them to price each item and if they won't, keep looking. and I agree, think about excluding the battery for now considering that there might be a fair few 2nd hand batteries coming on the market in the near future.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120097736#Comment_120097736

While i agree ideally quotes should be broken down like this I don’t think you have a chance of them responding if you ask them explicitly for a breakdown like this.

your best chance is going with the “remove the battery” but “keep everything else the same”. Then you can have a decent idea what they are at.

Manion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120097051#Comment_120097051

I got the same gear just there In December:

System size: 8.2KW - PV Panels – Longi 410W Pane x 20 (The black panels)

Solis Hybrid 6KW Inverter

2x Weco 5.3XP Battery - total 10.6 (These are sold as 5kWh Batteries usable)

Installation, certs, paperwork, etc

Total cost: €16,045 including VAT.

SEAI Grant - €2,400

Price after grant - €13,645

out of interest, what direction are you installing yours in?

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120091997#Comment_120091997

Yes I had planned to install solar shortly after putting in the charger but unfortunately time has passed and I'm only now looking at solar. I mentioned it to the crowd that called but I dont think the guy was too technically clued into what linking the charger with the solar involved. The garage is very close to the house but it is a block build. In retrospect I should have attached charger to external wall of house but it was more convenient to locate in the garage. There is a cat5 cable in the comms box at the side of the house which is directly across from where the charger is located in the garage. Not sure would be of any assistance.

Will have to clarify the issue now.

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120098595#Comment_120098595

Nice system but are you in danger of blowing the inverter with an array that size?

nummus

Got this quote - for 7 south-facing and 7 east - seems high

Longi 410W Panel €240.00 x 14 = 3,360.00 Vat =453.60 Total = 3,813.60

Solis Hybrid 6KW Inverter €2,500.00x1 2,500.00 Vat=337.50 Total = 2,837.50

Tigo Optimiser 75.00 x7 =525.00 Vat= 70.88 Total = 595.88

5.74 KW Solar Installation = 5,000.00 Vat=675.00 Total = 5,675.00

Total quote = 12,921.98 before grant

Manion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120098932#Comment_120098932

It's pretty standard practice to oversize the panels relative to the inverter provided you meet the design spec of the inverter. Anything over the peak will get clipped by the inverter. The RHI-6K-48ES-5G is the default inverter these days, and it's recommended max Solar PV is 8KWp on the 6KW units. For various reasons I'll never see that extra 200watts so the installation is well within tolerances. Some inverters support DC Coupling batteries, meaning that on a 8KWp solar install with a 6K inverter, instead of clipping the excess energy is shunted into the battery. That's not how the Solis works, but some systems work that way.

jkforde

that's €1.83 per kwp (after €2400 grant) with no battery or diverter, too high imho

btw, why 7 optimizers?

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099016#Comment_120099016

Fair play, thanks for explaining.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120098674#Comment_120098674

Looking at myEnergie documentation it would appear that a harvi that is required to ensure zappi can be set to use solar generated electricity only and the eddie has no role in the process. I still dont know whether the location of the zappi complicates the installation of the harvi as the zappi is not wired directly to the consumer unit but insread to a sub unit located in garage. This is something I will check out with installers.

myenergi-system-overview-2.1-with-v2-zappi-battery-storage-device-the-hub.pdf

Also it would seem to me that roof windows (of which I have 3), rather than veluxes, on a south facing would cause a shadow in the morning and evening. Would using optimisers on the panels located between the roof windows resolve this issue? I also have a single storey hipped roof on the west side of the house, presumably panels could also be installed on this space so long as optimisers are used for these panels as they will be shadowed for a part of the morning?

nummus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099049#Comment_120099049

the south side has a chimney that will potentially shade.

Manion

Solar EV charging was something that confused me for a while until I realized I was over thinking it, the charger just measures how much power you're exporting to the grid and looks to get that to Zero by increasing how much energy is going to the EV to match. I'm not sure exactly how the Zappi works but I think there is both a wired and wireless CT clamp option for the load balancing. If you have a CT clamp already installed for the Zappi then perhaps you don't need anything more.

When you say the Zappi is off a sub board, is the sub board feed from the meter box and or house consumer unit.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120100038#Comment_120100038

The Zappi wired CT clamps were not installed because I didn't have solar. Problem is that the Zappi is located in a detached garage so would have to cut footpaths and drive to fit a wired CT clamp to main electricity feed, or at least that us what I thought electrician said to me at the time. I might be able to install a wireless CT clamp but am clueless about this stuff so would need to check with electrician.

Tbh the solar installation is more complicated than I thought and certainly more than the solar sales guy was suggesting. He suggested installing inverter, Eddie and battery in attic room beside imersion tank. That meant the Eddie could easily be connected to immersion. Of course he never said all 3 would have to be connected to consumer unit in a plant room located in the middle of the ground floor (also contains HP). It would require a lot of drilling, chasing walls and cutting ceilings to get a cable from attic to the consumer unit. It might actually be easier to locate all the equipment in the plant room and runs cable from roof down external wall and drill through wall and cut ceiling to get cable into plant room. Would be an awful mess and would meet significant resistance from other half!! Never thought about this stuff when electrician suggested locating the consumer unit in that location!

By the way the garage sub board is fed from the house consumer unit and runs lights and plugs in garage as well as charger

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120101385#Comment_120101385

What about putting panels on the roof of your garage and putting the inverter in the garage and connecting it to the sun board there?

tipping

Waiting for detailed quotes put have had 2 suppliers back with estimates so far

Supplier 1:

10 panels (4kW) system on south facing bungalow roof (roof has multiple velux so fitting above below and even between in places)

Inverter capable of battery

Eddi

~10k after grant (>20 week leadtime)

No battery

Supplier looked at our usage and reckoned he could fit another few (2-4) panels on there but didn't think we needed them based on historical usage.

Supplier 2:

16 panels on garage roof, 8 east and 8 west

Inverter capable of battery

No eddi

No battery

~9.5k after grant (~8 week leadtime)

I reckon supplier 1 is too high and with long lead time.

I was surprised supplier 2 recommended east-west orientation, says you'll have early morning and late evening PV. (Now the garage is detached, unshaded and I'm sure would be an easier install)

I think the Eddi is probably good for our house as we currently heat our water in the summer using the oil boiler and have lots of teenagers.

I'm going to look for at least another quote but would appreciate any feedback. I'll update with more details once I get the formal quotes.

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120101693#Comment_120101693

interesting you have east/west/south in play.. south is generally best... but i have south east/south west... the north west generates next to nothing for me from november to maybe march *only got installed in november.. so don't know when it will kick in.. sun sets before it gets around enough to hit the panels.. is the east west split for quote 2 4kwp as well? Its not a huge system.. for instance i've 7kwp 4 on the south east, 3 on the north west.. the prices seem kinda high without a battery.. my system cost 11.5k after grant for 7kwp, 9.5kwh battery installed in november.. prices have gone up though.. i supplied an eddi which they fitted as part of install

tipping

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120101708#Comment_120101708

Quote 2 is for 6.4kw I believe, I just don't have the detailed quotes yet.

We're a one off house in the countryside pretty much completely unshaded so have lots of options really I suppose.

Our electricity usage is averaging about 16kWh per day over the last few bills.

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120101754#Comment_120101754

a couple of folks here have south facing systems and get very good generation even in december.. have both sent you potential generation information? they should send you a graph of what you potentially can generate annually based on your location and orientation.

tipping

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120101768#Comment_120101768

I haven't gotten the details yet, I'll update once I get a 3rd quote and the details from the various suppliers

jkforde

@tipping you can use

https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/

just note that South is 0 degrees when you're entering your azimuth.