Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022288#Comment_120022288

Unless you want Huawei you should get that a lot cheaper in a different brand of inverter and battery. Also try get a 5kw inverter if you can only fit that many panels or bigger if you intend putting more panels up in the future.

harvindhillon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018860#Comment_120018860

The option they had was Sofar or Huawei as the invertor.

I contacted a friend who does installations in Malaysia where they are a couple of years ahead of us and he's in the solar business (commercial) and in terms of reliability he was recommending Huawei. He's been doing this for the past 8-10 years but more in a commercial/big scale solar setting than residential.

That was the logic behind it. Also, I am thinking that battery tech only getting better and just economics of scale, we might get cheaper high voltage batteries in the future, maybe more wishful thinking :D

By the way between Jinko n-type panels 400w and Longi p-type 400w what would be the better choice? Any large difference. Again my friend was recommending Jinko as they are newer n-type tech but he said Longi is not that bad either so wouldnt go wrong too

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022764#Comment_120022764

I personally went for huawei and jinko n-type. The degradation curve of the n-type panels give 87% output after 30 years. The longi panels will leave you with 84% after 25 years. If they are offering both panels for the same price go for the jinkos.

with a 10kWh huawei battery it gives the capability of supplying a peak load of 7kw for 10 seconds. I have reviewed a lot of data from other low voltage battery systems and they always end up drawing from the grid during spikes in demand; I have seen that the huawei can cope with these and dose a much better job of balancing the grid and ensuring it’s not used unless absolutely needed. The huawei can also do a 5kWh discharge rate for the full 10kWh capacity of the battery.

I also like the fact that it’s a high voltage battery which removes some losses.

as far as I understand it’s still only possible to charge it at 3kwh which is disappointing as the night boost tariff is only on for 2 hours. Which won’t let me charge it fully at the cheep rate.

you also have the possibility of adding a “backup” box; which allows you to run up to kWH of load in you house in the even of a grid failure. I have also gone for this option.

harvindhillon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120024386#Comment_120024386

The cost seems to be €70 per panel for the Jinko n-type vs the p-type Longi.

How much did that 10Kwh battery cost you? I was being quoted around 1k for 1kwh battery from Huawei

paruss100

Quote from non listed installer:

7 x 370w Piemar panels

2.6 bps kw inverter

eddi v2.1

€8,472 ex grant inc vat

6492 after grant

Bit steeper than I expected 🤔

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120024386#Comment_120024386

This should be a sticky at this stage :-) but the "best" panels are invariably the cheapest (nearly EVERY time) as long as they are coming from a reputable manufacturer (QCell, Longi, etc) Why? A number of reasons - but all boil down to simple math really. Let's take an example....

If you are paying a premium of say €40/panel for a "better" panel and your installing 10x panels, thats an extra €400 you will have to pay. Panels are circa €200 each, so for €400 you could install 12 "lower grade" (LOL) panels for the same price as your 10 "Higher grade" panels. Giving you a 20% boost in generation capacity for the same money from DAY1

In this case your "higher grade" panels might have 87% after 30 years verses 84% after 25 years, but since you have 20% more of the lower cost panels on the roof, even after 25 years, you'll still come out on top.

Don't get sucked into "Ohh but these panels are shiny!" .... it's nonsense. Same with batteries. Your xBox or washing machine doesn't care if the electrons its' using was stored in a Telsa/Huawei/GivEnergy battery. As long as the battery/inverter is performant, save your money for a holiday.

That said, do make sure that it's from a well known brand. If people on this forum haven't heard of them, then yes, that would be a problem.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120024548#Comment_120024548

The longi panels are about 160 ex vat. And the jinkos are about 170 ex vat (and that’s for a 415W panel). So an extra 70 is a lot considering it’s the exact same effort. Unless he got his longi panels a long time ago and you’re getting them very cheep (I doubt this though).

the 10kWh was 6500 when I got it. They are 7200 now since the prices went up. As long as you have space it’s easy to mount and connecting the battery is only a DC cable and a comms cable into the inverter. Those prices are including vat.

it’s really a shame how much these installers are marking up the gear. He’s looking to charge you almost 3k to mount a battery that takes max 2 hours for one person.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025196#Comment_120025196

Your logic dosent work in my case as I am using a ground mount and filling all available space with higher grade / higher capacity panels already. I’m happy to pay to have the max possible output in the given space available and to sustain that output level for as many years as I can with no additional labour required.

so I’m going to be getting an additional 20-35Ws per panel vs the people that are using 380-400w panels still and that’s from day 1 and and the difference between 87% and 84% with a 415 W panel is 12Ws per panel that I’ll have for an additional 5 years.

And with most people they can’t simply create additional space for an extra 2 lower grade (not saying there is anything wrong with them) panels.

and in reality as I pointed out there really isn’t a huge price difference between the budget and mid tier panels. I agree there are some options out there that do cost significantly more; but trying to charge someone an additional 70 euro per panel for jinko n type vs longi is a totally being imposed by the installer not the market price of the panels themselves.

it’s just my opinion; but it is a very informed opinion at this point.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025196#Comment_120025196

And with battery’s there are clear technical differences in terms of max peak discharge / sustained discharge and charge rates; as well as how configurable they are for the end user. Most people might not be willing to get into the weeds on details like this; but there are differences. But again this installer trying to charge someone circa 10k euro for a 10kWh battery that cost 7200 euro is the problem. No one should be charging 2800 euro just to install and commission a battery.

im just giving people information (that’s freely publicly available if you know where to look) perhaps they can use that to their advantage when negotiating with suppliers.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025292#Comment_120025292

I'm always hesitant to say people are wrong (as I think it's a little rude) but in this case, but you'd be in the minority with that viewpoint. The vast majority of people here would typically fall into the thinking that cheap (and I don't mean nasty) is the way to go. Panel efficiency doesn't really come into play. I've 20 panels, and I would doubt that in 25 years I'll have the same panels.

For sure, in the case of "limited space" the generation capacity of the panels does matter, but usually the "density" is roughly the same. What I mean by that, is that the higher capacity panels are typically larger (physical dimensions) so instead of fitting 12 smaller panels, you might only be able to fit 11 of the larger panels. Now depending on the space available you might be on the edge where 10 larger is better than 11 (or 12) smaller panels, but you'd have to do the math for your specific scenario.

It takes a long time to recoup an extra €50 if your getting 20-30watts. Now of course if the panels were the same price - sure, bigger = better, but usually those larger capacity panels don't have the same payback timeline. Ultimately it's your dime, what you do is up to you - but just sharing with you the general thinking for most of the regulars on the forum.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025314#Comment_120025314

Your dead right HotSwap, there are indeed differences in the discharge/charge rates across inverter/battery combinations, but the vast (vast) majority of customers won't need to know.....or couldn't be bothered, and in many cases it's often a moot point.

Why? Well take two 5Kwhr batteries and one has a discharge rate of 2.5kw/hr and the other a discharge rate of 5Kw/hr. I'm on a day/night rate. Does it really matter if the battery is depleted at 8pm using the 2.5kw/hr, or 6pm if I was able to use 5Kw/hr. The battery is dead. It's done it's job in both scenarios and whatever charge it has is gone (money saved) and I'm importing from the grid the same amount of electricity until 11pm when it comes to night time.

Granted the charge rates will become more of a thing when we start to have these smaller off-peak/high timeslots. Say 2 hrs where your trying to squeeze as much into the battery as you can, but again, most people who install solar aren't in that category. But yeah, €10K for a 10Kwhr is bonkers.

GivEnergy 8.2kWh LiFePO4 Battery (midsummerwholesale.co.uk)

Granted that's ex-vat (and sterling) but even off the shelf that's like €4k for 8.2Kwhr (100% usable too) as opposed to 10kwhr where you only have a Depth of discharge of 90%. hard to see the "value" of expensive Huawei or any other kind of battery in that fiscal ballpark.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025513#Comment_120025513

I prefer the 5kWh modularity of the huawei, I’ll put in 10kWh first and then add an extra 5 if needed for example. And it also has a depth of discharge of 100%; huawei are adding some extra capacity internally to handle their own minimums..

the discharge rates do matter because if you turn on your oven, and someone hops in the shower / turns on the kettle, etc.. with battery’s with a lower discharge rate your gonna be pulling from the grid at peak rates 45c + even though you have plenty of charge in your battery.

it sounds like I’m a salesman for huawei at the moment; I just want to give a different viewpoint; getting the cheapest system isn’t all it’s about for some people. But I also agree; most people don’t want to know and maybe would be just better off going for the cheapest.

bullit_dodger

No you don't sound like a sales person at all. You make some valid points. However, taking the oven example for a min, your dead right that you would (at 2.5Kw limit) probably be importing some juice from the grid even though you have capacity in your battery......but it's still a moot point if your battery is empty before night rate. There hasn't been a night this week that my battery (8.2Kwh) has lasted much beyond 8pm.

The issue is having enough discharge rate to empty your battery by 11pm, not necessarily cover the oven or the electric shower. If you have a high discharge rate, then yes you will cover the oven, but you will empty your battery sooner (because you have a higher rate) and then you'll be importing from the grid whatever else your doing (base load) from an earlier point in the evening. Yes, you've covered the oven, but ultimately the exact same units will be imported from the grid.

High discharge rates only really come into play with very small windows for charging (3 hrs or below) or if you have a really large battery bank (10+ Kwhr) where it's conceivable that you can regularly get to night time rates without emptying the SOC to 0%.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026276#Comment_120026276

Yeah. I’m thinking 10 will be right on the limit for me and I’ll have to add another 5 to make it work how I want.

im already gonna be facing a smaller window with the night boost tarrif from 2-4 am and even with the higher charge rate of the huawei il not gonna be able to fill the full 10 (or 15 if I upgrade) which isn’t ideal.

id rather be importing as few units outside of the off peak times as possible.

con747

Want to take the above to a relevant thread lads? Here maybe? https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058262151/random-renewables-thread#latest

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026497#Comment_120026497

I would have said it's relevant as it's educating people as to what type of devices they need to get quotes for - but that's just me.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120027327#Comment_120027327

I agree with you b_d on the educating people, but it was turning into a debate that's the only reason why I suggested moving to a different thread.

Blues14

Hi im really clueless about solar I really what to get a battery with the panels but I just can’t afford it so I’m asking is it really worth it to get panels without the battery obviously I know your going to save money but is it worth the massive investment?I also have heat pump

JaCrispy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120027910#Comment_120027910

If you have a heat pump then you'll probably use most of your generation. The FIT/CEG is quite good here in Ireland so it lessens the need for a battery. Do you have an EV? What sort of yearly units are you consuming?

Blues14

No EV not sure on units because we just installed the heat pump so obviously won’t be the same as last year

Blues14

Iv got this quote

Non-Battery System 

5.25kWp of modules

14 x Bisol Premium 375W Monocrystalline modules (All black modules)*

Bisol Mounting system on a *Slate Roof (*Price may vary on roof type)

1 x Projoy Fire Safety Switch

AC Switchgear

Sofar 5kWp Inverter 

Costing

€8,900 (inclusive of VAT)

-€2,400 (SEAI Grant)

€6,500 Final cost after grant incentive

jkforde

from post #1.. "recommended a rule of thumb of €1.2k per 1Kwp"

so that post-grant price isn't far off which is decent considering the inflation in quote prices in the last 6+mths

got a smart meter? (so you'll get metered CEG vs deemed CEG)

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120027933#Comment_120027933

Great quote in this climate, if you go ahead get them to put in a hybrid inverter in case you decide to get a battery down the road.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120029524#Comment_120029524

Hmm.

I've seen prices of hybrids vs straight inverters although this is solis inverters and there's currently about 1000 euro difference in them.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120029539#Comment_120029539

Haven't looked at individual prices lately, but if they intend getting a battery in the future and can afford to get the hybrid now and possibly haggle a bit it would be worth it.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120029539#Comment_120029539

Sofar 5kWh inverter about 600.

Sofar 5kWh hybrid about about 1300.

just so that previous poster knows the difference. If you ask your installer to give you hybrid instead of standard and he adds ok more than 700 you know what he’s doing; I would challenge them if that is the case. Don’t just accept the (it’s 1000euro extra for hybrid) you’ll pay more than you need to.

bullit_dodger

Hmmm.....I dunno if I'd go for a Hybrid as a "cover your ass" if you change your mind about a battery down the road. I'd either get the battery in now, or not. Making up your mind could save you €700+ knicker.

Personally, I think every house should have a 5Kwhr battery hooked up to the panels, but I can appreciate that it's a significant investment.

Savetheplanet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120030445#Comment_120030445

So are you saying if you are unsure about a battery and can't afford one now to not get a hybrid inverter because you will save €700? How much might it cost if you do decide to add a battery and need to change the inverter in a year or two though?

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120030649#Comment_120030649

It may be possible to sell the old inverter to offset the cost of the hybrid but you'll also have to factor in the cost of getting a sparky to do his/her bit.

If it was me I'd get a hybrid now, in fact it is me as that's what I'm doing ha.

olympicweights

Just a quick note to thank everyone on here for their contributions that allowed me to make a decision on my solar install. Less than a month in and delighted I took the plunge.

Happy Christmas to all and let's pray for clear skies tomorrow to cook the turkey🦃🦃