Will you be taking a booster?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189030#Comment_118189030

They don't have to prevent transmission to be useful; they just have to reduce it.

They do this in two ways. First, to the extent that they reduce infection, then obviously the fewer infected people there are in the community, the fewer infections there will be. And, to the extent that they reduce virulence and infectivity in patients who do become infected, again, the fewer infections there will be.

There's plenty of research out there on the extent to which vaccines reduce infectivity. A quick google brought me this, but there's plenty more.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189329#Comment_118189329

I don't think anyone believes you. You might have been able to spread tales of one, but pushing it to 2 makes a lightning strike more likely.

The question then becomes what's the agenda, why make that up, do you also want to ask a few questions?

Fred Astaire

I solely took the first jab to ensure I had access to society and mainly travel. I purposefully went with J&J because it was the easiest - one and done.

Totally nonplussed by the inevitable 'you're selfish' guff - I have seen nothing but rotten selfishness from large swathes of society who claim to be pious but are just as, if not more disgusting than the 'anti-vaxxers'. The constant demonisation of group after group from the public, the abandonment of whole sectors of society, the way young people have been treated - the whole thing makes me sick.

Now it turns out the vaccine I took is only good for 3 months protection, from something I had no fear of in the first place - being a not fat young (under 40) person?

They can take a running jump if they expect me to get a booster. And a mRNA booster is what they want me to get, so we are mixing different vaccine types now. Where is the research on that - it seems to me that it's coming from the 'Ah sure you'll be grand' school of thought.

They broke the social contract. The deal was you take the vaccine society goes back to normal. We are one of the most vaccinated countries in the world and still had constant restrictions. The media/NPHET ramping up the fear factor and restrictions looking likely to return. If I lived in England I'd feel more open to taking it because they at least lived up to their promise in relation to the vaccine getting society back to normal.

And it turns out now that they also didn't know or completely misrepresented transmission levels in vaccinated v unvaccinated - where there isn't thaat much of a difference at all. So if it's not stopping transmission, if I'm not going to be getting sick regardless, and if the last one I took was good for just 3 months!? - why the absolute fcuk am I being asked to take this thing?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184426#Comment_118184426

Here's the thing, if you took two doses of the vaccine, what is the issue taking a 3rd or 4th. Now all of a sudden to be afraid of a vaccine you took twice

The breakaway group will be those, like myself, who took the vaccine a little reluctantly. The 'allright, I'm not really accepting this whole story but I'll go along with it for now' cohort.

They won't be getting the booster.

Remains to be seen how big a group we are.

Strumms

ive a good news appointment with my GP next week for an issue non covid related ...if I’m offered a booster which is a maybe yes, maybe no ...I’ll take it...

im not scared of Pfizer 1 or Pfizer 2 , so Pfizer booster, no problems... I’ll be grateful for it... only side effect was tiredness, for a day, I can put up with that.

divillybit

I'll get the booster as soon as I get offered it, and I've booked in to get the flu jab too soon at my own expense. I'm healthy and in my mid 30's.

Ive been donating 3 - 4 pints of blood a year for over 10 years. Takes at least 90 mins per donation from start to finish. I can't bear to look at the needle they use to draw it from me and it sure hurts getting prodded with that.

Getting a covid jab once or twice a year is nothing by comparison to being asked to give blood 4 times a year. But I do it willingly. It kinda puts in to perspective how minor an inconvenience it is to get the vaccine.

If folk don't want to get vaccinated or booster that's their right but it's at their own risk.

My uncle was a staunch anti vaccine guy. I say was because he subsequently got covid. He ended up in ICU. On a ventilator. Its sad to say, but I didn't detect much sympathy for him at the funeral.

airy fairy

I'll take a booster when offered. Was in cohort 4 last time, so hoping I'll be offered soon.

I'll take a booster, and a 4th and subsequent ones if that's what science and research determines at the time. It's a novel coronavirus. New. Novel. We are learning all the time. The research is gathering information and we are learning.

Finty Lemon

Annual booster shots are a routine part of many viral disease control programmes. Its no big surprise that it would become part of the public health Covid protocol. The politically fuelled stuff being spouted on here is just tiresome nonsense.

When the time comes, I will take it surely.

Zipppy

I got my booster yesterday...thousands queuing up...

I was Cat4 for initial shots btw, had to hassle my GP to get referred..

Anyone know when 'full immunity' is reached? one / two weeks?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189350#Comment_118189350

And yet this is really not a good solution. The vaccines have been promoted as a way of getting back to normal life, which at this present moment that does not look true at all. There does not seem to be any other type of plan and reports of fully vaccinated people in hospital, while to be expected,  are the kinds of thing that makes the public more sceptical and wonder just how effective the vaccines are.

A one booster programme stands a chance of getting beyond 60 to 70%, further boosters will not and you are likely to get down to the levels of annual flu’ vaccines.

Part of that solution does involve bringing up the levels of protection of the rest of the world , from the 50% at present. Some countries are way below that, Afghanistan for example is under 10%. Unless the virus is put under pressure everywhere it is likely to re-emerge at these types of levels. 

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189581#Comment_118189581

7 days

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187719#Comment_118187719

Half the ICU are unvaccinated. There's your strain.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189329#Comment_118189329

Correlation is not causation. You're more likely to have better health outcomes across the board when you're vaccinated than not. People aren't dying from being vaccinated. "A lad I know got a vaccine and then drove into a tree" is more like what you've posted.

the kelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189684#Comment_118189684

How many of those unvaxxinated would not be in icu if they were?

Genuine question btw which no one seems to ask.

SupplyandDemandZone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189466#Comment_118189466

Wow, glad I'm not part of that family.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189691#Comment_118189691

Eh? Are you asking, "if given the option, would the unvaccinated be in the ICU?" I don't think they can speak by the time that question would be asked.

the kelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189703#Comment_118189703

Emm thats not what im asking at all, its quite simple really, how many would have ended up in icu anyway even if vaccinated?

We have 50% in icu with vaccines which obviously means due to other underlying conditions the vaccine didnt keep them out of icu, how many of the unvaxxed are in the same boat?

As i said its a genuine question i havent seen or missed an answer to.

Theres this simple believe amongst many that if all of that 50% were vaxxed they wouldnt be in icu which is patently not the case.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189684#Comment_118189684

https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1461340921203552260

Negative

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189417#Comment_118189417

Now it turns out the vaccine I took is only good for 3 months protection, from something I had no fear of in the first place - being a not fat young (under 40) person?

And that's the problem right there Fred. According to J&J's own published research from a few studies involving hundreds of thousands of people in healthcare and outside of it in different countries against the different strains the vaccine you took while having a slightly lower protective outcome than Pfizer showed efficacy over eight months with a strong immune memory response that increased over time*. There was no talk of boosters from them, certainly not after a few months, until Pfizer showed theirs did wane, hospitals were being stressed again and there was a wider call for boosters and J&J and others then claiming that should have been a two shot vaccine. Something doesn't add up here. Somebody's telling porkies, or their research wasn't up to much, or panic set in again, or all of the above, so why should people buy into the new approach?

And I agree with you re the mRNA options. I read as much as I could from non Karen or Bloke on Facebook sources, weighed it up and decided on the viral vector vaccine rather than the mRNA approach, even though the viral vector showed an increased if tiny risk from clots. I would make the same decision today. I am open to a booster after ten months, but not mRNA. A couple of non mRNA vaccines in current trials look promising.

*interestingly their research and others showed vaccine efficacy varied by country. In Africa the protection was notably lesser than in America.

SusanC10

Yes, I will take the Booster when offered. Both my Husband and I are mid-late 40s and got Pfizer. Hopefully they will offer it soon to the 40+

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189581#Comment_118189581

It must have been a walk in centre if 1000's were queuing up.. Many were getting dose 1 and even dose 2. Completely false info to claim they were all getting boosters.

Igotadose

Belgium vaccination rates: where mathematical understanding goes to die. 10% of the flanders population is unvaccinated, and there are alot of cases.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189789#Comment_118189789

Some anti-vax pro-life nutter posts ill-informed sh1te. Must make it true?

Billgirlylegs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184313#Comment_118184313

Is it not the other way round -generally one flu strain has a long cycle, and does not produce variants that quickly so a vaccine drawn from old strains works (maybe) against the new variant.

Whereas C19 is more "a cold". They have tried unsuccessfully to discover a cure for colds for years. It is difficult because it produces variants so quickly that the "experts" can't keep up.

With our current situation, is it logical to suspect a new variant has been increasing in influence since September (or earlier). Which is why "de vaccine" (developed to deal with Alpha or whatever) seems to be not working, necessitating boosters (according to the experts)

I am not fond of strangers injecting me with stuff. I was told " a vaccine" will work. Then out of the blue a "2nd Jab" would provide complete immunity / finish the job. Then a vaccine sertificate. No mention of boosters or 3 Part Vaccines then.

So in reply to the OP questions

No. I think "the experts" are making it up as they go along. No evidence of expertise or competence

Yes. First set of Goalposts that have been worn out by being moved so much. Currently in bits on a truck on the M6 outside Loughrea.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189466#Comment_118189466

Were all the people there sociopaths

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189726#Comment_118189726

Aha. So the question really is, how many of the unvaxxed are in the ICU with Covid? Likewise, how many vaccinated are in the ICU for something other than Covid?

Found this: Between April 1st and November 13th 2021:

• 589 persons (aged 15 + years) were reported to the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC) as

admitted to ICU with confirmed COVID-19 infection.

• 369/589 (63%) cases reported as not having received a COVID-19 vaccine or were not registered as

vaccinated on Ireland’s national COVID-19 immunisation system (COVAX).

• 220/589 (37%) cases were reported as having received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine

prior to admission to ICU.

• 170/589 (29%) cases were vaccine breakthrough infections (see technical note)

o The median age of these cases was 67 years (range: 30 to 88 years)

 ___________________________________________________________________

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Vaccination%20Status%20of%20ICU%20admissions.pdf

--

So, a disproportionate amount are unvaccinated, far beyond the percentage of unvaxxed in Ireland, i.e., you're way more likely to end up in ICU if you're unvaccinated. This should come as no surprise. Also, I'd imagine the non-ICU but life-limiting misery of Covid is also much higher for unvaccinated. Who wants to go to the hospital at all? Covid's worse than flu because even if you don't die, you're likely to have a much worse life after Covid if you're unvaccinated. This is why the death rate argument is, well, weak (and fairly cruel if you ask me, reminds me of the #2xIMPOTUS promising everyone a ventilator early on, an unmet promise, but who wants to be on a ventilator?)

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189120#Comment_118189120

Eh Beasty, the chap you quoted has been vaccinated and has had covid a month ago. He's literally already had his "booster". Study into immunity in those recovered from covid infection

The takeaway?

The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection.

There's that eight months thing again. And countless studies show this result. Here's another one:

Many people who have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 will probably make antibodies against the virus for most of their lives. So suggest researchers who have identified long-lived antibody-producing cells in the bone marrow of people who have recovered from COVID-191.“Starting from back in November, we’ve had a lot of really important studies that showed us that memory B cells and memory T cells were forming in response to natural infection,” says Gandhi. Studies are also showing, she says, that these memory cells will respond by producing antibodies to the variants at hand.91011

The study provides evidence that immunity triggered by SARS-CoV-2 infection will be extraordinarily long-lasting. Adding to the good news, “the implications are that vaccines will have the same durable effect”, says Menno van Zelm, an immunologist at Monash University in Melbourne, Australia.

Here's another:

Gandhi included a list of some 20 references on natural immunity to covid in a long Twitter thread supporting the durability of both vaccine and infection induced immunity.12 “I stopped adding papers to it in December because it was getting so long,” she tells The BMJ.

But the studies kept coming. A National Institutes of Health (NIH) funded study from La Jolla Institute for Immunology found “durable immune responses” in 95% of the 200 participants up to eight months after infection.13 One of the largest studies to date, published in Science in February 2021, found that although antibodies declined over 8 months, memory B cells increased over time, and the half life of memory CD8+ and CD4+ T cells suggests a steady presence.9

Real world data have also been supportive.14 Several studies (in Qatar,15 England,16 Israel,17 and the US18) have found infection rates at equally low levels among people who are fully vaccinated and those who have previously had covid-19.

This is all proper scientific research, published in august medical and scientific journals. This is not some cross eyed 80 iq moron on whatsapp ranting about wearing "muzzles" and the "great reset". Actual science that so many are claiming they're following.

At the same time we're getting this push for boosters those who've recovered from natural infection from covid are considered "safe" enough for six months after infection that they get a pass just like the vaccinated. Again something is not adding up here regarding this push for boosters and logic is going out the window.

On the one hand you have the actual anti vaccination dopes, on the other you have the "I'll do what teacher tells me to do without engaging my brain". I'd rather not belong to either group. Oh sorry "cohort"*.

*every time I see that word, nearly always coming from someone who couldn't spell it, never mind know what it meant two years ago, I get an itch in the middle of what passes for my brain. To be fair if you'd used the word in front of me two years ago my immediate thought would be of a Roman legion.

growleaves

@Igotadose 'Covid's worse than flu because even if you don't die, you're likely to have a much worse life after Covid if you're unvaccinated.'

Proof? 'Long covid' appears to be isomorphic to other forms of post-viral syndrome that people get after initial recovery from influenza, MRSA, scarlet fever etc.

Apart from a media blitz where every case of long covid gets a story in the paper, where are the indications that the post-viral outcomes of covid patients are any worse than for people with other viruses?

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189849#Comment_118189849

Is it not the other way round -generally one flu strain has a long cycle, and does not produce variants that quickly so a vaccine drawn from old strains works (maybe) against the new variant.

Kinda. Flu viruses do mutate more rapidly than coronaviruses, so a new tweaked vaccine is usually required to combat the latest strain coming out of Chinese pig pens and the like.

Whereas C19 is more "a cold". They have tried unsuccessfully to discover a cure for colds for years. It is difficult because it produces variants so quickly that the "experts" can't keep up.

IIRC around 10% of "common colds" are from the coronavirus family, the majority are rhinoviruses. The latter mutate like bastids. If all common colds were coronaviruses we'd probably have a general vaccine at this stage. For a start research would be pointed at them for many decades. this covid pox caught us out.

With our current situation, is it logical to suspect a new variant has been increasing in influence since September (or earlier). Which is why "de vaccine" (developed to deal with Alpha or whatever) seems to be not working, necessitating boosters (according to the experts)

There are a lot of beady scientific eyes on the variants in the wild. Delta is the headlining act. However a shedload of studies have shown both vaccination and natural immunity give protection up to eight months against all strains. If you've had covid and have been vaccinated then that protection is even higher. The highest protection so far found was among that small group who recovered from SARS back in the day who have also been vaccinated, or recovered from covid. They're essentially immune to all coronaviruses in that family, including ones that haven't jumped to humans yet.

But apparently if you've been vaccinated and have had covid you need a booster now. GTFO. It's bollocks and the actual science, much of it from the vaccine producers themselves backs this up.

the kelt

Id love to know how many would get the booster if it transpired getting this booster will make no difference in regards to returning to normal?

Get an injection every 6 months to have 3 weeks of close to normal as we knew it before COVID doesnt quite have the same ring to it does it?

Billgirlylegs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184417#Comment_118184417

Then the programme has not worked has it.?

People who decided to get vaccinated people are infecting other people who decided to get vaccinated.

A matter of weeks ago, the incompetent planks who are professing to be experts said that "if you have gotten vaccinated and live with a person who has been tested, and declared positive for C19, you can go about your business as normal. Seems to me there was no risk to anyone then. No need to isolate sez the "experts". Now that has changed again. Funny how the pubs and clubs caused this increase in numbers since 22 October - or indeed later>