Swashbuckler's Marathon Debut?

Swashbuckler

God you're killing me here man..🤣

I'll try close this discussion out with some simple responses....

I'm not worrying about every little detail. It seems like a very simple thing to test out the shoes in advance. Yes understood I can't replicate race day and they may cause me problems then....but surely wearing them now does absolutely zero harm whatsoever. At the very worst they're shite and I don't wear them on race day....at least thats a data point. Not trying to set the base for any excuses. I know I can't cover every aspect of race day. I'm not trying to. Wearing my race day runners now seems like a sensible approach. Same with the gels...or should I not test out the gels and just sh*t myself on race day and accept it as part of the learning process? 🤣🤣

diego_b

For what it's worth, socks have been more my issue than footwear any time I got blisters...if I am running at race pace and the weather is warm then I need to wear a very thin sock. Something that's just basically there to prevent chafing as with thicker socks it's harder to shift moisture in the runners...too much moisture...cue hotspots and eventually blisters. I don't think I've ever blistered on a marathon but I have done so on at least two half marathons...my feet were in bits after the half in Limerick in 2016...one of the last races I ever did in 1000 mile socks I think. I had 3 blisters on each foot that all joined up to make one massive blister.

For runners, you've got good advice already above. No matter what you do in training it's impossible to replicate all the conditions of race day...during the race you could step in a puddle whilst running in a crowd having never got a wet foot in any long runs. Some of this stuff is a bit with the running gods but just make sure to select whichever one you feel most confident about and going on your diligence you'll be well practiced in them all the same.

babacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799323#Comment_118799323

Yes to your last question 😂. Would be an epic start to a race report! “The day I **** my self…”

marathon2022

I've taken both to 20 miles with the alphafly slightly edging.

I found the alphafly felt better as the miles progress. Clunky at the start but a godsend later.

The vaporfly feel good from the get go.

2c

healy1835

God be with the days when you wouldn't dream of doing a LR in your racers for fear you wouldn't be able to walk the next day 🤣 The thoughts of banging out 20 miles in a pair of Adizero Adios 3's or a pair of Streak 6's are just crazy...

Not complaining about the extra recovery that plated shoes give us at all, but it's funny that this is a variable that we think about now as opposed to 4 years ago when you wore your racers for sessions or raceday.

Swashbuckler

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 12 – (17-Mar to 23-Mar)

If you recall, I pulled this weeks Q1 20 mile run back into Week 11 to free up St.Patricks Day for time with the family rather than have a 20 miler looming over me all day. To keep things simple I will be going with a Plan/Actual for week 12 which reflects my plan rather than the book plan. It would get too messy otherwise.

Thursday, Mar 17th

Plan: Rest

Actual: Rest

Super day with the family. Went to two parades and some drinks that night. Kids had a ball. Didn't feel any particular effects from the 20 miler the day before but thats not unusual for me. It's often not until I run that I really feel it in the legs.

Friday, Mar 18th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 6.5 miles, 53mins, 8.06min/mile

Felt ok although the right knee was a little "noticeable". Hard to describe - no pain as such but I could feel a little "twingey". As the week progressed it became clear that pulling the 20 miler into week 11 (meaning 69 miles/3 sessions in a 7 day period) wasn't the best thing to do.

Saturday, Mar 19th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 6.5 miles, 53mins, 8.09min/mile

Calves, hamstrings, quads all tired. Delayed soreness from the 20 miler I think. Was worried at this stage. Afraid I had pushed the envelope a bit too much after 11 weeks of very solid training.

Sunday, Mar 20th 

Plan: 2E/8M/3x1T off 1mins/2E (emboldened in the plan)

Actual: Rest

At this stage I had made my mind up. Not only postpone this session but drop it completely and try to recover for week 12 Q1 session planned for Thursday 24th. Regardless of this being one of the bolded sessions (meaning you are free to change or rest) I had made up my mind it was gone. Took a rest day. Foam rolled and questioned everything...lol...

Monday, Mar 21st

Plan: Easy with strides

Actual: Easy 8.25 miles incl 6x20s Strides - 67mins, 8.26min/mile average

Better. Calf muscles still a little stingy. Recovery from the 20 miler has sure been slow. But this was better, and the knee was not noticeable.

Tuesday, Mar 22nd

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 7 miles - 55mins, 7.53min/mile average

Much better.

Wednesday, Mar 23rd

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 7 miles - 56mins, 7.57min/mile average

Heavy legs today and much warmer.

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: Because I pulled in the 20 miler to last week then I figured the target mileage across two weeks should be 108 miles total (54 + 54)

Last weeks total was 69.3 miles

This weeks total was 35.2 miles

Actual mileage for the two weeks: 104.5

Time on feet: 4hrs 44mins

Miles in the block to date: 662.5

Number of MP miles: 59

Number of Threshold miles: 49

Comments

• Certainly not the week I had planned and did a lot of overthinking this week. Not ideal that this happens right around the time where I'm probably hitting the peak of the plan. That being said I think I've at least shown a bit of cop on by stepping back and not forcing it. It feels like I've put in a really solid block to date. I don't want to throw that all away now by being stupid. I also know that I'm in pretty good shape right now and undercooking a week or two is better than forcing the sessions in. All that being said, in reality I only missed one session (albeit one I was looking forward to). Feeling a little leggy today which is a little surprising after a week of essentially easy running/two rest days. I have the physio booked for a rub down anyway - that was always planned for around this stage as I knew I'd need it when I was deep into the plan. So I think the positives outweigh the negatives. I really was thinking the worst when I started to feel so creaky on Sunday - how will i get through the remaining sessions on the plan and a 26.2 miler at the end of it!! Confidence was dented a bit but hopefully that will continue to come back. I expect this is all part of navigating the winding road of a marathon block - more easily done with experience I'm sure. The thoughts of not making the start line were all consuming at stages this week. Hopefully moving in the right direction again.

Next weeks sessions;

Q1: 2E/14M/1E

Q2: 60minE/3x2T off 2min/1T/1E

5 weeks from this Sunday is marathon day!

babacool

Welcome to marathon training! It is a different type of running and thinking and especially overthinking. This will increase as soon as you hit taper 😁

Spot on decision with skipping the session. Risk and reward isn’t in balance here. So good call. And an even better call is to not chase the session by doing it the next day! That means you can continue with the routine!

Laineyfrecks

FWIW I think you made the right call. It's not an easy decision but you listened to your body & that was the smart thing to do, as you said you don't want to risk not getting to the start line.

The marathon training is like a rollercoaster at times, lots of ups & downs but ultimately your training has been really good up to now so a little confidence knock shouldn't define the next 5 weeks. You've got this!!

diego_b

Right call, now can we get back to the runners chat!

Only joking P, a very sensible and correct decision....even though she was hurdler and not a marathon runner (yet) but I always remember Derval O'Rourke saying that at our fittest we're right on the knife edge of getting an injury. It's always better better to play it safe I think. A missed session/run or two over the course of a full marathon plan especially if you work out the percentages of the mileage in question is nothing. For my first marathon I developed a runner's knee issue, a mutual running associate of ours (sub 2:30 marathon runner/physio) helped me ensure I got to the start line. The issue meant I did miss the second 20 miler on the plan but so be it. Also for any marathon I've done to date I've always celebrated crossing the start line as getting there in one piece takes an awful lot.

Cleanman

100% the right call. You're in great shape and no point in pushing yourself over the edge.

I love the comment from diego re celebrating when crossing the start line. There's a lesson there for everyone ( and not just ye mad mad marathon loooneys!).

ariana`

It sounds like you're a natural at this marathon malarkey! Really it's not a lot different to training for any distance, you need to listen to your body and step back from the brink occasionally even when it goes against your instincts. Well done, keep her lit!

Swashbuckler

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 13 – (24-Mar to 30-Mar)

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement. Ye're a sound bunch.

Back on track in a big way. All niggles are a distant memory......for now.....The ups and downs of the marathon journey eh......

Thursday, Mar 24th

Plan: 2E/14M/1E

Actual: 2E/14M/2E

Shoe: Alphafly

The biggie.....The biggest marathon paced session on the plan...The final test drive in the Alphafly. Testing out the Maurten drink. This session had jumped out to me when I first looked at the plan so I was looking forward to it. Made a point again of making sure I ran this on a lumpy enough route including several sections of the marathon route. This session went very very well. Don't get me wrong though, I felt it in the quads, calves and arsecheeks deep into the run. First several miles flew by. Aerobically I felt good throughout. Was happy with the paces. Took the Maurten drink at 10. Needed it as it was a warmup day. I think i'll use it on race day although it aint pleasant....Didnt cause me any issues though. The alphafly were good although I expect they will cause me issues deep into the marathon if I decide to wear them. Gels and gear are sorted at this stage too.

2E: 7.46, 7.33

14M: 6.48, 6.47, 6.46, 6.47, 6.56, 6.43, 6.51, 6.44, 6.43, 6.36, 6.43, 6.47, 6.49, 6.40

2E: 7.42, 7.42

Overall: 18 miles, 2hrs6mins, 6.58mins/mile average for the 18 miles.

A good day. Had physio later in the day and he was pretty happy. Nothing to worry about. Didn't really have an explanation for what I had been "feeling" in the knee last week. Body was in decent shape and to be honest, by today I had felt like the tiredness from the previous week had eased somewhat. Simply a case of overloading slightly and slow recovery from the 20 miler.

Friday, Mar 25th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 10k, 51mins30s, 8.16min/mile

GPS was off here for the first mile or two - the entire run was closer to 8.20min/mile.

Legs were tired and calves sore but that was more from the physio work.

Saturday, Mar 26th

Plan: Rest

Actual: Rest

Super day in Lahinch with the kiddies. Beautiful weather.

Sunday, Mar 27th 

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 8.3 miles including 8x20s Strides, 68mins, 8.34min/mile.

Very very good. Fully recovered. Plenty of pop in the strides. Happy with my recovery from Thursday.

Monday, Mar 28th

Plan: 60minE/3x2T off 2min/1T/1E

Actual: 8E/3x2T off 2min/1T/1E (Daniels recovery is 1min per threshold mile so in this case 2mins between sets)

Shoe: Next%

Was a bit apprehensive with this as the throat was a little sore overnight Sunday night. Antigen was negative. Felt good enough to attempt the session but sleep Sunday night had been poor with various kids in the house waking! Wore the Next% to give them a go at distance. This was to be the last time in this plan i would wear either the Alphafly or Next%. Very very warm day and kept this one on a reasonably enough flat route. I handled this session very well again and was a very happy man although the shoes are likely a factor. Overall the shoes felt good. I really like them....debatable whether they felt better than Alphafly but I'm parking that in my mind for now. I'll decide some other time which ones I will wear but the testing is done at this stage.

Nicely negotiated in my mind too. First set: "Its the first two miles, it wont be that bad. Ignore pace and just settle into the session". Second set: "Well the first one is always the worst. You've settled into the session now so this set will be manageable". Third set: "Shur this is the last hard set and then you're basically done. You don't have to do the 1T after this if you dont want to coz 6 miles threshold is a decent days work". Last Threshold Mile: "Shur may as well do this now - its only a mile"....This doesnt always work for me but today it did.

8E: 7.56/7.56/8.00/7.47/7.53/7.55/7.59/8.01

2T: 6.00/6.03

2T: 6.01/6.09

2T: 6.08/6.14

1T: 6.00

1E: 8.04

Overall: 16.7 miles, 2hrs, 7.13min/mile

Tuesday, Mar 29th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 5 miles - 41min30s, 8.17min/mile average

Wouldnt have known I ran a session the day before. Had to remind myself to keep it slow. Thank you Next%. Blistering heat. Dont want that on the big day!

Wednesday, Mar 30th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 7 miles including 10x20s Strides - 58mins, 8.16min/mile average

Very good again - cooler day. Strides felt good

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: 60

Actual mileage for the week: 61.2

Time on feet: 7hrs 45mins

Miles in the block to date: 724

Number of MP miles: 73

Number of Threshold miles: 56

Comments

• Very happy.................Feelin strong. Happy with the way things have turned since the physio.
• Will need to do some shuffling next week with the missus celebrating her birthday - probably means condensing a week again.

Next weeks sessions;

Q1: 2E/3T/60min E/2T/2E

Q2: 8E/5x3min Interval off 2min/4x1min R off 2min/3E

4 weeks from this Sunday is marathon day!

AuldManKing

You're doing very well so far, all looking in the right direction.

I'm in admiration of your discipline to execute the planned sessions.

Top marks - there's a lot a marathon veteran can learn from a young buck like you.

Swashbuckler

Cheers A. It certainly all looks good on paper doesn't it 😀. Would be great if the marathon was run on paper.

I made a decision last night to do a write up before I run the marathon detailing how I feel the block went, the pros and cons, the good and bad. Mainly because I know anything said about it afterwards will be biased by how the day goes .

squinn2912

Great running again lad! And a good idea to write up the report before the run. I think mid-taper is a good time to do that. The week of the marathon no one thinks too rationally!!

Murph_D

Outstanding stuff - ‘Keep it going’ as our club coach P always shouts at us.

That ‘feeling strong’ feeling is the goal of any marathon block, especially during and after sessions like this week’s.

4 weeks? Time flies.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118859704#Comment_118859704

It only occurred to me on my run today - wasn't that Monday threshold session the one we were questioning was a typo as it seemed like a heavy heavy weeks work and too much threshold work in one session? Little did I know I'd handle the week as well as that. Mad.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858880#Comment_118858880

Cheers lad - You're still targeting Cork right? Not Limerick?

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861843#Comment_118861843

Yea lad Cork is still my plan but I’ll be deciding in the next couple of weeks. Limerick definitely out but I’ll be following your progress that day!

Swashbuckler

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 14 – (31-Mar to 06-Apr)

Update could be a little rushed this week so apologies. This week needed a bit of reshuffling. Wife's birthday coming up within WK15 of my plan so I needed to reshuffle my sessions a bit in preparation for it. That meant WK 14 consisted of the usual Thursday session. Then I had a decision to make. I needed to pull in the following Thursdays long run to Wednesday. Should I do my Q2 session on Sunday and repeat what I did a few weeks back which led to me having various niggles and needing physio? I decided against this and chose to drop the planned Q2 session completely. Trying to keep the sensible approach consistently throughout this block rather than forcing things in. I dont think one session will make or break me anyway.

Thursday, Mar 31st

Plan: 2E/3T/60min E/2T/2E

Actual: 2E/3T/60min E/2T/2E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Pro

Sneaky sneaky session. On paper I thought this looked ok. In reality the 60mins in the middle took more out of the legs than I expected. I think I was deceived by the fact that the previous session similar to this only had 40mins in the middle which I managed pretty well. Really had to work to pick back up the pace after the 60mins easy in the middle. Very solid paces though and very happy with how it went.

2E: 8.00/7.51

3T: 6.11/6.09/6.00

8E: 7.53/8.04/8.03/7.54/8.00/7.57/8.03/7.57

2T: 6.10/6.00

2E: 8.15/8.00

Overall: 17 miles, 2hrs6mins, 7.26mins/mile average for the 17 miles.

Friday, April 1st

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 5 miles, 42mins, 8.05min/mile

GPS was off here again - closer to 8.20min/mile. The first mile registered as 6.58 which is laughable. Legs were tired

Saturday, April 2nd

Plan: Rest

Actual: Rest

Trip home to see my parents.

Sunday, April 3rd 

Plan: 8E/5x3min Interval off 2min/4x1min R off 2min/3E

Actual: Easy 10 miles, 1hr19mins, 7.53min/mile average

As mentioned above I decided to drop the session completely rather than squeeze this in and follow up with a 20 miler three days later. Playing it safe.

Felt great on this run.

Monday, April 4th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 6.5 miles, 52mins, 8.03min/mile average

Shite weather and tired. Mixed sleep with baby waking a few times.

Tuesday, April 5th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 7 miles including 8x20s strides - 58mins, 8.12min/mile average

Very windy - appreciated the strides to wake the legs up.

Wednesday, April 6th

Plan: 2hrs 40ish mins time on feet

Actual: 2hrs 40mins time on feet, 20.5 miles, 7.49min/mile average

Another biggie. Weather was awful today. Ill take rain, snow, cold, hot but wind is just a pain in the ass. I was blasted out of it for the first couple of miles and pretty much all of miles 13 to 19 was straight into my face. Just a tough tough run today and tested all my resolved. Questioned everything and thought if I feel like this on mile 20 in the marathon I'm in trouble. Was pretty much on empty by the end mostly due to the extra effort into the wind I think. Heart rate range was 125-155 which says it all really. In some ways I hated this and in others im proud that I got it done and did not quit on it. But jesus if there was ever a confidence knocker......Thats the last of the uber long vanilla runs thank god. I cant say I've loved them. They are a mental resilience test on your own.

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: 60

Actual mileage for the week: 66

Time on feet: 8hrs 37mins

Miles in the block to date: 790

Number of MP miles: 73

Number of Threshold miles: 61

Comments

• A great weeks training on paper - mentally i'm still a bit frazzled from that 20 miler today.

Next weeks sessions;

Q1: Done today (2hrs 40mins easy)

Q2: 6E/5x3min Interval off 2min/4E

3 weeks from this Sunday is marathon day!

babacool

Can’t wait til you train for an ultra. You will be glad to have plenty of those short 20milers 😂😂😂😂

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890811#Comment_118890811

I cannot f**kin wait to get back to the shorter stuff!

Murph_D

Good man. I've almost forgotten what 20+ miles feels like myself, haven't gone beyond 16 in years except on race day! But I certainly never found them easy. Boring is a good word!

Another good week and good call on the ditched session - in many ways it's the best way to adjust the plan.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891506#Comment_118891506

To be fair I probably shouldn't be doing those as they're not specifically called out in my plan but I just feel like I need to know that feeling now..None of my other 16, 17, 18 mile sessions have felt like that 2hrs40mins time on feet.

babacool

Yea. Trust me. You have the bug now. Shorter stuff you will no longer enjoy 😁. I said I’m done with that long stuff and now I’m considering going beyond 50k (well getting to 50k first obviously) soon enough 😂.

Laineyfrecks

I must be weird, I never really minded the long stuff, in fact I always felt a great sense of achievement after! A bit of company on them would be ideal but for most of us that's just not possible so the music/podcasts have to keep us going!

It's getting so close now, you must be feeling excited at this stage(& obviously a bit apprehensive which is totally normal) Well done on the 20miler, your training in still on point, a lot to be taken from that!

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892288#Comment_118892288

Nah..not saying I won't be hooked on the longer stuff but I think I'm the kinda guy that will love the shorter stuff in between.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892935#Comment_118892935

Well I guess looking back at my vanilla long runs from this block I enjoyed a couple of them. The first one was a shock and yesterday I just got pummeled by wind. Definitely a sense of achievement by the end but man I got hit hard in those miles yesterday. Felt like I was running backwards at times.

Yep definitely excited and a little bit apprehensive. Very much looking forward to the occasion though. Things have gone better than expected in terms of training, gels etc. I genuinely thought I'd have serious trouble with gels and the likes but they've been fine. I'm also delighted with just how much I've learned in this block. It's a whole other type of training and will definitely stand to me going forward.

AuldManKing

Keep with it - you're doing fantastic for a JD Virgin - 3 weeks left.

You will question a lot, you'll worry if you've done enough, you'll get nervous about the simplest of things - its all natural.

I'd advise you to get a timetable for the week of the race - actually for the 10 days prior to the race - what runs you'll do & when, food, toe nail clipping (must be a Tuesday) - buying your gels etc, get a race day plan lined up - leave nothing to chance.

When you start to question things - look to your plan - its all there - there's nothing to worry about.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896309#Comment_118896309

Was Toenail Tuesday not for a Monday race (old DCM)? 🧐