Climate Bolloxolgy.

K.G.

Listened to an interview on matt Cooper with a fella from the epa.it was billed as the carbon reeduction due to covid but turned quickly 8nto an attack on agriculture.one of biggest load of bollocks was the fact that international Air fuel is not counted in countries carbon but is allocated international and as far as I can basically not counted. The big problem with climate change is the counting of it and the way its allocated and currently the system is stacked against irish farming.there is no account taken of the fact alot of agriculture emissions could be described as regenerative whereas most other human activity is taking and releasing carbon stored thousands of years ago .this battle is all about how things are counted and not massive changes to farming practices and its quiet clear there is an agenda here.rarely has a radio piece incensed me so much.

Pinsnbushings

Couldn't agree more it's the way the commentators just state as fact that agriculture is responsible for 40 percent of irelands emmissions without any debate whatsoever.

The counting of emmissions is where the fight lies for farmers going forward. The same radio stations have a company advertising kitchen appliances as carbon neutral..??? Figure that out the consumer pays a premium so the company can "offset" there emmissions by purchasing credits ie. trees..what a load of Bullshit...yet trees,hedges,grass,weeds on farms mean nothing....yet...

We need to be very careful that our carbon assets are protected..

endainoz

Well look we know the airline industry isn't going to be made do anything to reduce emissions by the government. The attack on farming from the EPA has some justification as they seem to focus mainly on the polluting of waterways from chemical usage. In terms of emissions, obviously the two sectors shouldn't be compared at all.

What we do really need is a balanced reasonable voice from the farming industry with regard to emissions and I have yet to see it. There's far too much push from the green side to completely change the system and too much stubbornness from the farming side to keep things the way they are. It isn't too much to ask to meet somewhere in the middle. And yes, totally agree that many farm are not measured correctly or at all for carbon sequestration, which should be a top priority.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214428/climate-bolloxolgy

Interesting stat I heard yesterday was the world was down to 5 weeks worth of maize in stock in July this year till the South American harvests got under way, with the fertiliser shortage worldwide unfolding at the minute, next year these uppity c**ts might be glad of a glass of milk and lump of steak for the dinner when their imported avocados and almond milk mighten be on the shelf, its a case of careful what you wish for

patsy_mccabe

With the history of famine and everything in this country, you'd think people would be some way appreciative of the food on their table. Blaming others is a great way of deflecting blame from yourself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118062655#Comment_118062655

In the local shop this morning I wondered to myself as I picked up rashers, sausages, black pudding, milk, and eggs was the D4 looking for oat milk and avocados silently judging me as much as I was him.

berettaman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214428/climate-bolloxolgy

Hear similar sh1te from lunchtime on Newstalk.

They had a lady form EPA saying the emissions from farming actually increased in 2020 and that the south east was the worst offenders for overstocking/nitrate run off.

Saibh O'Neill from DCU was on to agree and state that farmers must do more etc.

A guy named Rush from IFA gave his best to educate them a bit and made some good points but it is a set up from the go. He pointed out that we grow grass better than anyone and make great beef, that the subsidies were cut from tillage so hence less tillage. Spoke about clover etc.

When Saibh O'Neill was asked about the National herd increasing she said that its not the national herd, those cattle belong to farmers!!🙄

She let slip that she didn't want tillage , forestry was the way to go.

Long story short. The green agenda is depopulate rural Ireland, plant forests and make us all live in little villages. They are stocking dept of Agri, EPA and NPWS etc with their kind of people and you are fecked if you fancy a steak, rear cattle, like horse racing or going hunting.

Import our food but hey, emissions will be down. Go out into the countryside at the weekend to look at the wolves but make sure you cycle.

FF/FG are willing to let a bunch of eco clowns make daft decisions so that they can cling to power.

B Man

PS. Not a farmer, just cut a bit of silage.

Birdnuts

I personally think the whole climate versus CO2 thing is overblown and is now being driven by vested interests out to make money from the whole thing eg. SSE are sponsoring the COP gig in Glasgow. What really annoys me is that every bit of bad weather around the world is now reported by the media as evidence of "climate change" - you would think the likes of Hurricanes, floods etc. only came along in the last 20 years or so!!. If people bothered to study actual climate science they will see little or none of the current climate events are "unprecidented". The climate alarmist also can't seem to get their head around the subject of Natural Climate Change that has always been with us with large decadal fluctuations in temps and rainfall being a normal part of many climate regimes around the world eg, the 60's,70's and 80's saw an extreme dry period in the Sahel region of Africa, this then flipped to a wet period in the 90's onwards. Same with droughts in California - archaeologists have strong evidence that a drought 1000 years ago wiped out a major native civilisation in the area.

That is not to say that human activities do not have a negative influence on a local or regional climate. But this is little to do with CO2, but much more a factor of deforestation, overgrazing, drainage of wetlands EG. Many of the deserts in the middle east are known to have been caused by the removal of native vegetation over millenia by excessive forest removal and overgrazing. The sad story of the drying of the Aral Sea was due to Soviet era destruction of its feeder wetlands to grow cotton etc. Brazil destruction of their part of the Amazon is leading to a hotter/drier climate in that region. These examples show where the actions needs to be. In an Irish context we need to start appreciating the role of natural wetlands like intact bogs and callows etc. in the natural control of flooding and provision of clean/reliable water supply. I would also add that the Biodivesity crisis is very real around the world and their is much to do in this country on that front too!!

enricoh

Was talking to a lad last night who's sister is in for planning for a house. She had to get an environmental assessment done on the site, some fella came out n pottered around for an hour or two.

He went off n wrote up his report n the good news was building a house there was grand. The bad news was it was 2.5k for the report. Nice work if you can get it.

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063043#Comment_118063043

More jobs for the boys

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063043#Comment_118063043

Holy moly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063043#Comment_118063043

Was thinking of building on a piece of land beside an SAC - downhill from it, would have had to get an environmental assessment done. That site didn't work out so poked around at another, remarked at least this won't need an assessment, oh yes it will says the engineer, the friggin bay is designated.

20silkcut

There is no doubt that the amount of carbon in the atmosphere is many multiples what it should be naturally. There will never be any global consensus on how to meaningfully reduce that. Human nature just won’t allow it. We could all stop farming here in Ireland in the morning plant trees and let nature take its course. What difference would it make? Ireland is a dot on the globe. Brazilian/ Argentine/ Chinese/Russian farmers would see an opportunity and gladly fill the gap in jig time and negate any carbon reduction from Ireland going wild. It’s bullshit that’s why it’s so difficult for farmers to buy into this. And then when we see anomalies like tillage reduction and peat importation it just makes it all the more insane. I would reckon most farmers would be open to a more mixed approach where they feel valued and could make a contribution be it through digestion plants, wind /solar farms increased tillage, cover crops etc . All industries where our skills and assets could be utilised. But again the direction of travel seems to be shut down mode and decreasing role for rural people which is just horse sh1t.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118062758#Comment_118062758

Farmers in this country are a soft touch and will continue to get rode.

The climate nazis in this country are not against farming, they are against Irish farming and want to replace it with imports which are actually more damaging to the environment.

If farmers don’t get much better at defending their interests they are finished.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118062602#Comment_118062602

Funny that... currently following a keto diet...so I avoid avocados as they are terrible for the local environment in which they are grown for numerous reasons... I typically eat lots of meat & cheese all of which is produced in Ireland and some nuts that are produced abroad...I try and get Irish grown vegetables but next to impossible...

Have vegatarian friend, who typically eats 2 amount of food as me, and their plate of food is like a UN Congress when you look at the country of origin...how is broccoli from Africa, beans from Canada, Fake meat from some processing plant...how is that sustainable and good for the environment...

Also all the fertilizer, that is produced from fossil fuels that the vegetarian relies on isn't exactly environmental friendly...animal manure is better, but sure let's cut the national herd by 50%...

Why don't the country that buys our beef have that carbon put against their carbon number

Mooooo

Feeding foreign grain actually lowers our carbon footprint

Putting up solar panels or other forms of renewable energy doesn't lower our figures it lowers the footprint of the energy sector

The two different climate agreements have different ways of calculating stuff as well

We got one of the lowest amounts in the EU from the Just Transition fund, with Germany etc getting the most. While they shut down nuclear months ahead of time to go green, ending up with higher elec prices and increasing dependence on coal and gas.

If governments don't realise that the horse is gonna have to go before the cart there is no fcuking hope no matter what side anyone is on

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063476#Comment_118063476

How is nuclear not seem as green, the waste it produces is only the rods, which can be stored on site

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063501#Comment_118063501

The waste is only the rods.... Jaysus I'd suggest you do a bit of reading.

Easten

I think the Science is proven correct, climate change is happening and it is being brought on by human activity. Can't really blame the farmer for producing meat he has to make a living as the demand has increased worldwide production has followed. I've seen lads chomping into dinners with more meat than Veg, it seems to be the norm now. The problem I have with farming is it constantly squeezes margins, forcing more production for less money. The whole Carbon measuring is pure bullshit, it's just another money making Industry now full of two faced pricks who have no bother telling us we should be cycling to work while the same fuckers see it as ok to fly 2 foreign Holidays ever year burning tons of aviation fuel to get them there.

Boris Johnson is holding a climate change conference in Glasgow next month, there will be big entourage of politicians flying in from all over the world living like Kings and preaching down to the rest of us. The likes of Johnson and Trump is a symbol of what is wrong in the world today.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063568#Comment_118063568

Compared to coal...which when burned produces an unimaginable about of pollution...

Nuclear waste is normally, only the rods and is very little compared to fossil fuels, In properly managed facilities...

Sweden has no problem with storage on site in dry casks

C0N0R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063306#Comment_118063306

On your last point about the country that buys our beef should have the carbon charged to them - is the carbon created in making a new car charged to us or where the factory is? Genuine question as I’ve no idea.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065040#Comment_118065040

Don't quote me but I think it's only energy that's counted where it's used ,(and the energy that's used to extract the oil or gas is counted in the extracting country) - not food stuff , not industrial products ( not sure what happens with things like ore ,,,)

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065040#Comment_118065040

I don't know, but I believe it should be end users that have the carbon attributted to them...

Different countries have different areas of expertise, we produce high quality beef, if we only produced enough for our island, then other countries will have increase their production...it's like robbing Peter to pay Paul...

In saying all this, I do believe that we can do better with farming, in regard to biodiversity on farms, more wildlife, trees, hedgerows and less environmental pollution...not the case on all farms

farawaygrass

Feeding foreign grain actually lowers our carbon footprint.

I have zero scientific evidence but I’d have to disagree with this point. Same point could be used for importing peat?

id presume you mean there is a higher conversion rate from the imported feed but add in transport, and possibly destruction of forests like the Amazon and it can’t lower our footprint imo.

we need every sector here working together for each other and if we get that we have a pretty good system.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065040#Comment_118065040

The end user pays every cost accrued in the manufacture any product,

If there's a charge for end of life recycling it's eventually added to the price of the product.

Of course beef is different, where every extra cost is subtracted from the price given to the farmer.

farawaygrass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065109#Comment_118065109

you not talking about emissions here are you?

I thought all the emissions from agriculture is counted in the country it’s produced, but oil in gas is counted in the country it’s used.

TXPTGR1

I think a lot of the D4 heads giving out about farmers thinks that all farming could be done on small organic low impact holdings like the cute Costa Rican farmer on the website of their local small batch coffee roaster

we are very much in the era of “something must be done to save the planet- but don’t look at me”

Markcheese

There's lots the Irish population can do to reduce emissions , and it's not surprising that everyone looks to farming , by the weird carbon accounting system ag is a big emitter - but Irish farming overall is far different today to the mixed farming model of a few decades ago - it's not all super eco and a natural paradise - money and world markets have pushed it this way . Like it or not change is coming,and it'll be money that pushes it a different direction ,. If it's more profitable for farmers to produce a bit less , use less bag manure , put poor land into paid set aside schemes ,then they probably will ,

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065108#Comment_118065108

Its all about accounting...inventories, and where they're applied.

Unfortunately, Irish farmers are at the **** end of these accounting agreements..

Badly served when they were being agreed..

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065143#Comment_118065143

You get the impression alot of these activists are university educated and feel they need to educate the big thick farmers because farmers are beneath them and not intellectually equal. I see it with my own siblings and friends who have moved to Dublin or elsewhere, doesn't take long for them to forget there roots either.

They genuinely believe they will do without farmers. Things like vertical farming and technologies will sort it they tell me. Maybe so but I'd bet it won't do much for the climate.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063273#Comment_118063273

On the issue of climate change , as in so many areas of Irish life within the last decade, the people are being told what to think . Pressure groups and those pushing various ideologies have the ability to use the media and worryingly also the government . Look at the way prime time ads on television increasingly have coloured and gay characters . I have no difficulty with either but to what extent are they representative of the broader population ?

Have no doubt, farming will be sold out to satisfy the Green agenda being pushed by a minority .

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065143#Comment_118065143

Try and explain green water blue water to them when it comes to their avocados...they will look at you like you have 12 heads

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065691#Comment_118065691

Sold out ? Do you mean current farming practices ? Current land owners ? Current entitlement holders ?

Farming has been reliant on subsidies and controls since God was a boy -

Those controls and subsidies change at the whim of depending on government policies.. and currently most governments want to reduce CO2 emissions - farming and food is a big part of that , far from the only -

From an Irish farming point of view there's money to made ,but probably not by trying to cling stubbornly to practices of the last set of subsidies and controls ..

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065403#Comment_118065403

By the middle of 2023 the whole landscape will have changed on the environmental agenda, and food security will be alot of governments number one priority with the green agenda gone out the window, supply chains worldwide are breaking down and spiraling inflation is going to tank economics and with it the grand aspirations of governments like our own with their green lead agendas will blow up

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066028#Comment_118066028

EU, one of the most affluent places on earth, will have no issue acquiring food. Just look at the supply of Covid vaccines.

A fully fed EU will continue to use farm resources to offset the burning of fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels mean lifestyle..

That's not going to change.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066131#Comment_118066131

If Putin decides to turn off the gas our simply limits it into the EU over the winter months we will see just how affluent the EU is, when governments start to go woke just like collages etc, things don't be long going to sh**t, in a very short space of time

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063476#Comment_118063476

That would be germany which is going to continue using lignite until 2038 (4x the emissions of gas) and which refuses to introduce a speed limit on motorways - we should tell them to get stuffed until they get their house in order.

The only thing that matters and will make a difference is demographics - building 40k houses across the country annually for a evade will do nothing for our carbon footprint or indeed our GDP per capita; govt should say "we stop child benefit after two kids" and see how that goes, at least that would be more honest than the current approach

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066162#Comment_118066162

We need an LNG terminal to give us access to global supplies now; we can't be relying on an interconnector with the UK

Markcheese

I don't think that too many kids is this country's big problem any more 🤔...

But there are a lot of people to house and that does have a carbon footprint ..

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066197#Comment_118066197

Demographics is a global issue, not just Irish.

And everyone needs a big house; as families have got smaller, the average house (and car/SUV) size has grown

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065112#Comment_118065112

I'm referiing to any cost accrued, There's no one going to absorb a cost if they can pass it on

When you sayjust counted, do that mean that it's not charged for

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066028#Comment_118066028

Without sounding like I'm wishing suffering on others,I hope your right to a degree..the problem is it will be the ordinary joe and the weaker in our society that will feel the pain most. European beaurocrats, central bankers or Dail tds won't go hungry.

The amount of money that has been put into the global system is crazy, am I right there is 33% more money in the world than pre covid..seems a bit ott now but maybe they know what they are doing. The landscape is changed massively anyway that's for sure.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066001#Comment_118066001

I am not saying that we should cling to the subsidies . The subsidies are there because the consumer has not paid for what has been produced .At least not since we joined the then EEC .

The overall thrust of the CAP has not changed that much over recent years. Keep the food on the shelves in plentiful supply and keep it cheap.

carfinder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066344#Comment_118066344

That's a fanciful view on subsidies. The simple fact is that food production is more efficient elsewhere and if left to open market forces (on a global level), a lot of food production in Europe would cease. That is the reason for subsidies - to ensure food security i.e. the subsidies are to make up for inefficient food production NOT to subsidise prices for consumers!

techman1

The 2030. 50% reduction in carbon that the EU has signed up for is not happening, people will not accept carbon taxes on already expensive fuel, already the politicians are feeling the push back. OPEC have played this brilliantly, they have restricted supply, got the price of oil back up and frustrated moves by governments to impose the carbon taxes, effectively OPEC are now collecting the carbon taxes as well,

The technology to move to zero carbon is still decades away and is very difficult stuff, yes we may have great communication technologies but energy is a different story, we are still highly dependent on fossil fuels. Just because a politician or a media head announces something does not make it happen. Talk is cheap

Also as the OP pointed out agriculture has been unfairly targeted and the producer countries like Ireland rather th a.the consumer countries like Germany are being lumped with the carbon penalties. But Saudi Arabia does not get lumped with carbon penalties for producing oil, in that case the consumer countries get lumped with the carbon penalties. Nobody questions why this is the case.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066178#Comment_118066178

Pippa said today on Week in Politics that we don't need one....that the gas isn't available anyway🤔

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066362#Comment_118066362

Where is this food being produced more efficiently and without destroying the environment ? Or are you saying that they should continue to burn down the rainforests and ship food halfway round the world ?

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066372#Comment_118066372

There's a planning application gone in near here for 5 gas turbines and 250 shipping container sized batteries and they say it'll be a sure thing to get planning

carfinder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066385#Comment_118066385

I was challenging your post regarding subsidies. It would be nice if you debated the points I raised rather than introducing issues I didnt raise. Market forces determine consumer food prices - do you accept that subsidies are there to ensure food is still produced i.e. a producer subsidy rather than as a consumer subsidy?

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066362#Comment_118066362

What makes it more efficient elsewhere..cheap labour and less regulation not climate or soil types in general.

What type of efficient food production would you recommend for ireland. When stacked up against any country in the world with all factors properly counted for ie water use, "NET" carbon emmissions, quality, safety, protein conversion..etc. I'd say our current beef,lamb and dairy models are pretty damp efficient. With some room for improvement too no doubt.

divillybit

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/pig-farm-wins-court-battle-against-epa-653945

Bit off topic, but I loved this court's report from last week's farmers journal, in which the judge rightly dismissed an epa case taken against a pig farmer. The epa's case was based on a subjective 'sniff' test rather that actually measuring the offending odour particles as per their protocol.

Most epa vehicles I see on the road are lancruisers. Seems to set a very poor example to the general public when they are driving vehicles with such a low mpg, and the rest of us trying to cut our carbon emissions