Climate Bolloxolgy.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066028#Comment_118066028

Thats a bit contradictory though as the most intensive/factory type farming is the one most exposed to input price pressures. At the end of the day there is huge waste in this space in terms how much produce on farms actually gets consumed (some studies put it at as low as 50%!!) and then there is other related issues like the obesity epidemic that is now starting to seriously impact middle income countries like Mexico and India.

Furze99

The elephant in the room for farmers here in this state is that the general non farming public are going to be increasingly hit with carbon taxes. (Yes, they effect agriculture as well but that's beside the point). The same public are then being told that part of this carbon tax burden will be used to compensate/ fund farming. Then they hear that the industry reps of same refusing to countenance any change in stock numbers and so on.

This has the potential to sow major discontent. When taxes & policies hurt, they've got to be seen to affect everyone proportionately. So to some extent it's all about PR and the message. How you sell these ideas to the public at large. There's already a perception that farming gets a big divvy out from the EU etc. Of course you can argue that this is price of 'cheap' food but people also know that it's often the large industrial type enterprises that hoover up most of the payments. And that's not the green message either. Work to do.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066745#Comment_118066745

Fair points too, balance like everything in life.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066448#Comment_118066448

The primary producer sells at a loss . The subsidy partially compensates primary producer for that loss . The consumer benefits by having a regular supply of cheap food available at below the cost of production . . Percentage of income spent on food has steadily fallen over the decades since subsidies were introduced .

Is the same consumer now insisting on reducing emissions from agriculture ? Even with subsidies there won’t be many producers left putting up with that approach .

K.G.

Simple question on calculating emissions.does agriculture get credit for the co2 used in production of crops grass

Beechwoodspark

Anyone who thinks climate change is “bollix ology”, read the uninhabitable earth by David Wallace wells.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067777#Comment_118067777

Maybe I'm misreading the thread, but I believe most people believe climate change is real and an issue...but the measures that are being proposed to combat it are weak as water and full of hypocrisy

lalababa

A lot of wind, solar and interconnection to UK & French grid. And a lot of trees. Some bog management. A little bit more tillage and veg. And a little national herd 'stabilising' ......what's not to like?

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067777#Comment_118067777

Personally I do belive the pointless level of consumption that is going on in the world is having an affect. My concern is that I m starting to question the methodology of how emissions are calculated.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067745#Comment_118067745

Good question, and I assume something is released into the atmosphere if we didn't graze it and it dies and starts to rot

Dakota Dan

Wait until the Glasgow meeting of the climate overlords next month they want action from all governments to reduce beef production and consumption. The real agenda behind the climate farce is to transfer wealth and the climate is only being used as a scapegoat. Check out the club of Rome.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066028#Comment_118066028

Agree 100%. Trouble is that for last 50 years we have been feeding the worlds growing population using fertilizer made from fossil fuels created millions of year ago. What happens now that fertilizer supplies are being limited. The EU politicians think they can import food from around the world but these countries will feed their own people first, look at China stopping exporting potash and urea. They dont give a fiddlers about Europe. The reality is that the world cannot support the present population without consuming carbon locked in the earth. The technology is way behind the "green" aspirations. Wait until food prices rocket, the citizens will not be long abandoning the green agenda.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066028#Comment_118066028

Best get a good few rows of spuds in next year so :)

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067745#Comment_118067745

No its not...its missing in the inventory figures.

Carbon removed to soils, trees, hedgerows etc will eventually be counted, but the carbon from photosynthesis that ends up in the cows rumen and subsequently discharged as methane is only counted on the emissions side..

I'm getting excuses that it is offset against respiration of animals which is unmeasurable, but its an absolute travesty that it doesn't appear against our methane emissions, which I would suggest because of it...should be considered irrelevant..

Chase anyone you can for an answer to this....its farming's most imlkrtant missing link..

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066448#Comment_118066448

Food production in other regions gets far higher subsidys than the eu

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067923#Comment_118067923

It has to have a huge bearing on the production of green house gases but there's no political will to touch that as that is a one way ticket out of politics

Grueller

Economic strategy is based on growth year on year. Growth is based on producing more, ergo more energy used, more scarce natural resources used etc.

Our whole economic model needs to change to tackle this.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069304#Comment_118069304

The whole constant growth, leads to unnecessary mass consumerism...which in turn leads to massive amounts of waste

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069304#Comment_118069304

100 percent...just look at the meltdown at the first sign of growth slowing march2020...printers went into overdrive, the chickens will come home to roost someday, be it our lifetime or not I don't know.

gozunda

Perhaps the biggest current bolloxology is the spin being being pushed by some of our meat hating friends along with the many fake food corporations out there looking for a global market share.

The facts are that despite the hype - the overwhelming proportion of all greenhouse gas emissions comes from the use of energy inc. electricity, heat and transport which go to make up 73.2% of all global emissions.

Agriculture (which is lumped in with forestry and land clearance most of which is in the developing world) accounts for some 18.4% of global emissions of which shock and horror - livestock (and manure) make up 5.8%.

And yes agriculture uses energy as well but its a essential sector which feeds people.

https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector

For the screamers telling everyone that we all need to give up the bit of beef, chicken or pork your having with the dinner tell them to get stuffed - literally and figuratively in the nicest possible way ...

And finally at least Varadkar called for some reality last week..

Commenting on Ireland’s responsibilities on climate change, Mr Varadkar said it would be unfair to single out any one sector, however, in respect of the agricultural sector, which saw a rise in carbon emissions last year, he said he was not in favour of culling livestock or rescuing Irish food production.

“I’m very proud of the fact that we live in a country that feeds nine times as many people that live here. We have a population of 5m, and we feed 45m, and I think it would be a mistake to displace food production overseas because that doesn’t actually improve the environment because we all (live under) the same atmosphere.”

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/leo-varadkar-warns-covid-will-be-with-us-forever-as-he-says-return-to-restrictions-possible-40976088.html

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118068013#Comment_118068013

Yes and no - it'd pretty soon go to scrub which soaks up a lot of carbon ,

Grazing ground CAN absorb huge amounts of Co² , or not, it depends on management,

Cattle and sheep produce methane ,which is worse than co² short term , but that breaks down to co² , which is hopefully reabsorbed by the grazing land -

_Brian

I think the figures and science is undeniable that there is a massive human portion to the changing climate.

no doubt changes, massive changes are needed.

but there are serious problems in how figures are calculated, pressure from rich lobby groups like the oil industry and pressure from special interest groups like those against animal farming on an emotional weakness

farming is being battered at present but no account of sequestered carbon into grassland or hedgerows which is an absolute disgrace that the government know this but insist on ploughing on is reprehensible

I hear blah blah blah about the Paris accord that shambles agreed not to include emissions from shipping so imported foods look to have a low carbon footprint they also agreed to ignore military emissions, the US military emits more than a medium sized European country yet isn’t included in any calculations anywhere

if measures aren’t calculated fairly and implemented fairly people will have no interest in making an effort

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067777#Comment_118067777

You're still plugging that eco-porn-horror book.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118070653#Comment_118070653

Carbon sequestered into soils and forestry is taken into account, although no accurate measurements have been taken.

This sequestration is included in a land use and land use change inventory called LULUCF, and is being considered separate from farming emmissions for the time being.

Why it's being kept separate is because this inventory of forestry and land base combined is a net emitter of carbon currently, and if included with agriculture would actually increase our emissions.

However, only a small percentage of Irish soils emit Carbon. There are the reclaimed and improved soils and make up somewhere under 20% of our total farmed area.

This means that 80%+ of our farmland sequesters carbon. The solution to this is not pleasant, and would involve rewetting of some of that area.

However what is not included, is the CO2 taken in by the plant during photosynthesis, that forms the bulk density of the grass plant before it is eaten again by the animals.

This is a critical miss from farmers' point of view, as it is the only source of carbon to be emitted from the animals during rumination.

This belched Methane CH4 not only should be counted differently to other sources of methane, but should be removed from the calculations if its source is being ignored.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118070707#Comment_118070707

It’s fully researched. And references for every fact it details

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118070883#Comment_118070883

I'm not convinced rewetting is the only solution. Using biology and deep rooting plants could be an alternative to rewetting.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118070889#Comment_118070889

We've discussed this elsewhere. It is misery disaster porn.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071082#Comment_118071082

You're most likely correct. Also, I wonder for how long more these soils will continue to emit. Could we be getting to that point with land that was reclaimed 40 and 50 years ago is now at the point of building carbon through soil rather through peat which it originally did?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071289#Comment_118071289

Yeah that's a good question, beyond my pay grade to answer it mind. An awful lot of soil on my farm is very thin, a lot would have been cut for turf and either burnt immediately locally or exported to the islands. I do see I have a lot of black soil, which is an indication of carbon having being burnt off.

I've seen a solution mooted by someone very knowledgeable about the melting permafrost, it was hinted that there's a biological solution if there's the will to implement it. I believe, but having a damn hard time confirming, that's it's like an aerobic skin on the outside of a compost heap, which can absorb the GHG emissions of the anaerobic centre of the pile.

I did a little digging, something like 50% of the permafrost lands in Canada is peat based. I don't think drained farmed lands here would act all that differently, in that a solution to melting permafrost would I think be applicable to emissions from our lands as well.

And there I am, out on a limb 😄

ginger22

Was listening to the news on radio 1 this morning. They said there was going to be a famine in Afginastan "due to a drought caused by climate change". Must be the first ever drought there so. More of the same Bolixology.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071594#Comment_118071594

It was actually caused by mad baxtards with AK47s, not climate change.

GrasstoMilk

Savage herd cuts and huge job losses forecast in climate council report

https://farmersjournal.ie/savage-herd-cuts-and-huge-job-losses-forecast-in-climate-council-report-656450

blob:https://www.boards.ie/f20019ed-84dc-4a13-9b2e-050a2816d0f8

ginger22

The thing is will these cuts be based on your current stock numbers or will it be based on Ks nitrogen excretion per hectare eg no derogation

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071867#Comment_118071867

I would be planning for no derogation going forward.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118070883#Comment_118070883

"However what is not included, is the CO2 taken in by the plant during photosynthesis, that forms the bulk density of the grass plant before it is eaten again by the animals."

That's a pretty big flaw in the calculations if true.

Easten

As bad as global warming and climate change is, the underlying problem is consumerism. The Irish are as guilty as any nation. Big Houses, 2 or 3 cars outside the houses. Nobody walking or cycling anywhere. Kids won't even use the School Buses anymore they have to be trucked down the road in these big SUV's, then driven to the GAA, then back and over to some other shite that's on.

The new muck mansions are being built again, so much for new environmental planning, j.c the size of the houses is unreal, some amount of concrete, blocks, timber and what not. I'd say north of 300k to build, no surprise on the farmers Son/daughter to plank the house in the middle of the best meadow in the farm.

Farmers are forced or think that somehow that more is better. Bigger Tractors, Bigger Bulls, more stock, more fertilizer, more meal, more Silage made, all from farms that are not naturally ever going to sustain that level of output. I see several around me, maxed out on everything, overstocked, over borrowed, time poor and not a minute spare for themselves to say as much as a prayer!

I can't understand how it is ok to use up so much resources and then expect a couple of changes in farming practices to cover it. It's just not possible, it's all Bullshite coming from all sides.

But I do believe that nature is returning what it has been given in the form of more storms, floods and droughts. We'll see a lot more famine yet before it'll get sorted (that's if it does get sorted).

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071618#Comment_118071618

It was helped by them but I dothink your both right there's a multiyear drought if I remember correctly

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071820#Comment_118071820

Anyone have a number for the mad baxtards with the ak 47s

dashoonage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072151#Comment_118072151

They are being voted in here next election i think.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071820#Comment_118071820

Do

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072162#Comment_118072162

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Indeed. They Couldn't be a lot worse and I never in my life thought I would say that and I really mean that 🙄🙄🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072174#Comment_118072174

They'll be like the rest of them, amnesia about what they said in opposition. The permanent Govt run this country.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063501#Comment_118063501

surely this is a piss take? 😂

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071867#Comment_118071867

Thats the key question in my mind, a cut of x% regardless of whether your stocked to the hilt or lightly stocked doesn't seem right but will probably happen ( look at BEAM scheme )

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071265#Comment_118071265

Not at all. Not sure what your own qualifications are but knock yourself out and write a “reply” to his book any time you like and I promise you I’ll have a read.

just Make sure it is fully referenced and annotated.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072164#Comment_118072164

D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071820#Comment_118071820

Do they want the countryside to be a wilderness ? It is time for those who try to make a living from it to rise up before it will be too late .

Over the last forty years we have sold our produce at below the cost of production. We have watched as our services were taken -Post offices, banks,hospital services. We are told we can no longer cut turf to heat our homes as had been done for generations . We can no longer drink two or three pints and drive home without been disqualified . And now they want to half the number of cattle and cut thousands of jobs .

Who is actually running this country ? What forces are behind the decisions being made on our behalf ?

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072250#Comment_118072250

The future will tell.

Someone said the last Donegal minister for agriculture closed down the sugar beet industry in Ireland. The current Donegal minister for agriculture might want to finish off agriculture altogether..🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072244#Comment_118072244

You are a time sink and have been warned in other forums to stop dragging conversations down dead ends.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063979#Comment_118063979

We cant even build houses here without them crumbling to dust or agree upon a flipping new hospital, let alone a nuclear plant.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071594#Comment_118071594

Yeah - I would says its more to do with decades of war along with uncontrolled population growth, basically human history repeating itself like it always has along with some of the elements like rangeland depletion on fragile soils like i mentioned in my earlier post