Michael D Higgins insists he is President of Ireland, refuses to commemorate partition

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127106#Comment_118127106

Complete gobbledygook. Nowhere in my post do I link a UI to a win for SF, nowhere.

I am not a bit unhappy with the way things are. Happy to let the people in the North sort out their future for themselves without us down here interfering.

Laughable that you say that if a minority are unhappy, that's democracy, yet argue for a minority view that we should have a united Ireland. Pure hypocrisy and self-indulgence.

As for the third way, it is everywhere. People in the North, especially the younger generations are getting sick of the bitter sectarianism of the two main sectarian parties - SF and the DUP. They are looking to the Greens, to the Alliance Party and to the SDLP as well. There was a time that the SDLP was the party of old men and women, over the last few years that has changed dramatically.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118124293#Comment_118124293

A NI state, at a particular point in time, failed utterly. Look at Spain at the same time, a dictatorship under Franco with people being disappeared, now a member of the EU with human rights protected. NI can take the same step, if it wants. That third option is a new one, not a step back. Those of you rooted in past unhappiness and carrying that bitterness into today are the ones with the problem.

PeaSea

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135204#Comment_118135204

I understand the sentiment blanch, but the prospect of the headbangers in the Unionist (and indeed SF) ranks in absolute power fills me with dread. I'm afraid I can't see that solution being practical, and personally I would prefer to be part of a modern grown-up outward-looking country (hint : this does not describe the UK).

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135224#Comment_118135224

The headbanger ranks are being depleted over time. Both are becoming smaller minorities while the third part grows. As I said before, Northern Ireland can have the best of both worlds if it wants, being a member of the EU and of the Commonwealth, the first for economic benefit, the second for cultural historical reasons.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135195#Comment_118135195

Again, I'm asking you. It reads to me like you won't speak on a UI without bringing up the IRA. Nothing wrong with that in the right context of course. It seems you are more concerned with any affirmation of SF rather than any group in the North that might be adversely affected. There are people who would like a UI who don't support SF. All FF/FG are concerned about is being outdone by SF and how a UI might damage bums on seats in an election.

Do you ever give concern for the nationalists, catholic community? You must admit they've had a harder time of it than a minority of Unionists having the 21st century catch up with them. I don't see how signing up to peace and equality is being bitter, unless of course you fight that peace every step of the way, belittle it and campaign against equality.

I never said a minority wanted a UI I spoke on how since the GFA we have a clear path and it will happen at some point.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135304#Comment_118135304

What about pre plantation heritage and culture? You know there's heavy Irish links in the Irish province of Ulster on the island or Ireland right?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135737#Comment_118135737

What are you talking about? Address the points I made and the language I used, not what you see in your head. Nowhere, in either of my last two posts do I mention the IRA.

Rather than address the points I make, you are inventing an argument I am making and arguing with that.

A United Ireland may never happen, that is the reality of the GFA. The next evolution of the GFA will provide for all options. We don't live in a binary world.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135204#Comment_118135204

So your “third way” is an independent Northern Ireland ? Not on the table, and unlikely to be in my view. As I’ve sai before, it’s a binary choice, stick wit the UK, or go for Irish unification. At the end of the day, regardless of the “new” Northern Ireland identity you’re so keen on, everyone will have to come off the fence and vote for one option or the other. Of course the vote may well go in favour of the status quo, which should keep you happy I’d imagine.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135810#Comment_118135810

Not necessarily, there are other options. A UK that is more federalised with greater power in Northern Ireland would also help foster the Northern Irish identity. First, though the Northern Ireland electorate have to get rid of the dinosaur parties of the DUP and SF, and the signs are positive, though somewhat weak in that regard.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135784#Comment_118135784

I was speaking on and asking you questions. You misunderstood and I clarified. Your last two posts are your own. You've addressed the questions you created for yourself and ignored others.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127106#Comment_118127106

You keep saying you are asking questions, but there isn't a single question in your post, just a sad rant about the motivations of another poster and some unconnected rambling incoherent musings.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135858#Comment_118135858

Still ultimately UK or UI though. There are no other choices.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136094#Comment_118136094

I have outlined two other choices. Greater autonomy within the UK, and a Northern Ireland membership of the EU being those. A united Ireland can take a number of forms as well, a federated State, with much remaining the same up there, the franciful version of a new land of milk and honey taxing unicorns, a straight takeover by the South etc.

The focus on a binary choice will come back to bite those on whatever side push it.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136211#Comment_118136211

Nobody has suggested a 'land of milk and honey'.

In fact an independent NI is from the land of whimsy itself...which is likely why it is only talked about by fantasists and has zero political representation.

Flinty997

I can only assume that for certain group is realizing that moving close to the UK isn't going to happen, that ship has sailed. A UI is the worse case scenario for them. That only leaves keeping the status quo as the only viable option for that group, and gasping at any version of this that keeps that fossil in place.

Whitewashing, or willful ignorance of the past however its achieved, I suppose allows the current status quo to be viewed as some equitable situation, at least in their heads.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136211#Comment_118136211

Greater autonomy “within the UK” - the clue is in the quotes. A Northern Ireland membership of the EU, which doesn’t address the Constitutional issue, unless you mean an Independent NI, which is where we came in. Federated UI is still a UI, which I’m sure any Unionist would be quick to point out. Whether you like it or not, the constitutional issue for NI is a binary choice. There may be accommodations worked out within those choices, such as the GFA, but it really does boil down to whether the place is 7nder UK jurisdiction or all Ireland jurisdiction. You want it to remain with the UK, we get it. I’m happy enough as long as there is a majority for that (although how we got to the situation remains deeply problematic in my view- but we are where we are , to coin a phrase). If and when there is a majority in the North for unification though, it should happen.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136434#Comment_118136434

I don't think there ever any substantial group that was looking for more integration with the UK. The acceptance of the GFA put paid to that.

The current status quo has seen the most peaceful time in the North since partition. That gives it a lot to recommend it.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123950#Comment_118123950

As an aside, I read that the story of Hotel Rwanda, is being re-evaluated. "Inside the Hotel Rwanda: The Surprising True Story … And Why it Matters Today" etc.

I think its obvious from these threads how little of Irish history some people know. Which would be ok, but they are not opened minded to be educated. They are using selective snippets to create and persist a distorted version of history. On UK forms, its kinda weird they often treat NI as nothing to do with the UK. They lump it all together as "Irish". They also show extreme ignorance of the UKs involvement in other countries history, be it Iraq or Afghanistan. They seem to think history (and their baggage) only started 10yrs or so ago.

It not that people want to dwell on the past. But they get concerned if history seems to be repeating itself due to people not knowing their own history.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136617#Comment_118136617

That's a recommendation's for the now and going forward, not for anything now going backward to the start of partition. What is their now is despite partition, not because of it. In fact the further you move from partition, the more peaceful it gets. So you're back to whatever event this commemorating. It wasn't forward looking.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136617#Comment_118136617

And yet partition is causing a crisis that may yet cost us and Britain very dear.

It's a failure in peace and conflict.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121964#Comment_118121964

There wont be a border poll every year Francie... :)

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139280#Comment_118139280

Every 7 I think.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140428#Comment_118140428

Why 7?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139280#Comment_118139280

Who said there would be?

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140790#Comment_118140790

It's the minimum time set before a referendum can be called again.

markodaly

So a referendum every 7 years until we get the 'right' answer. I can see no issue with this at all at all :)

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143939#Comment_118143939

Did you read the GFA at all Mark.

The SoS can call a referendum every 7 years if he or she so wishes.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143969#Comment_118143969

'If they wish'

BoJo can call a Scottish Independence Referendum every year if he wants.... not that he will do that.

It is funny though that SF allowed a Westminister MP and member of government to effectively veto a border poll.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143977#Comment_118143977

So now you did read the GFA.

Why the questions on it?

P.S. Do you think SF should have demanded to be the ones calling it?

Like really, this isn't exactly rocket science to work out and really isn't the taunt you think it is.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144005#Comment_118144005

No, its just ironic that after all, the keys to a UI are still in the hands of Westminister to give and they effectively have a veto on it, especially if the outcome isn't clear cut.