How long does the anger last

TheadoreT

The only reconciliation for her is to get you off her case so she can continue to have her cake and eat it like she has done the last decade or so. She's choosing to do that via very obvious gaslighting. She almost has you at the point where you're trying to win her back after *her* affair.

If leaving isn't an option you need to start treating it like the marriage of convenience that she does. Tell her it's now officially an open relationship instead of her being the only one getting her jollies elsewhere.

Let go of any idea that she'll ever have any respect for you again, that ship has long sailed. And don't see that as a failing on your behalf, its a criticism of her.

Big Bag of Chips

Why would you need to be the one to move out?

She is not happy in her marriage. That's obvious. If she was happy she wouldn't be seeking attention elsewhere and you wouldn't be sleeping with a cushion between you.

I think you need to attend counselling. It doesn't mean you have to end your marriage, or kick her out, or anything. But it will help you work through and realise what is actually going on.

It is possible that your marriage can once again be happy. But only if you both want it. For now it sounds like you are both continuing with it because it's easier than ending it. I'm sure there are thousands on couples in similar circumstances.

It's worrying that you are focused on her. On her anger. On her reaction. On the length of her string. Believe me, her string is infinite. For as long as you are at home and playing at happy families for the benefit of outsiders, she can have the best of both worlds with having flirts and relationships outside of that. Knowing you'll just keep quiet. Why would she want to end that?

The only way it'll end is if some fella actually agrees to be in a proper relationship with her and then she'll leave you for him. Maybe even bringing your children with her.

blackcard

Her hopes and dreams have been shattered? Her hopes and dreams of meeting up with this bloke? And she blames you! Seriously, you need to dump her asap

Emotional affair? Are we talking naked selfies, sexually charged exchanges?

Unless it was explicit your wife has a reason to be very annoyed. If it was explicit then you have reason to be angry.

Either way a lot of repair is required if possible.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117906477#Comment_117906477

OP, I certainly don't think you are a fool. I think you are hurt and worried about your family.

I think you and your partner have ended up in a unhappy untrusting place and you genuinely want to work your way out. Whether or not she does remains to be seen.

I have been accused of being biased towards the female perspective, yet what I am reading in many comments is a litany of judgements about how she is 100% awful and you need to run. If you don't you are apparently a doormat. The male bias is everywhere - but none of that will help you if you want to talk to your female partner.

No-one seem to be listening to you say you don't wish to get out. You wish to work it out.

If you do want to work it out you need to talk to her. And she needs to talk to you.

You may decide it's not going to work out, but at least you will know you tried. I don't think a host of posters telling you the woman you love is a gaslighting etc etc is conducive to that.

Ignore them, sit down and have an honest adult conversation with your partner 0f 24 years. If you want her to be honest with you, you need to be honest with her. Try to not get angry, expect the same from her. It won't be easy, it will be bloody hard, and painful. But at least it will be a start toward whatever will come of it. Right now you are all stuck in a really horrible place, children too.

TheadoreT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907298#Comment_117907298

Some terrible takes in here. The fact he loves her is making him somewhat blind to the realities of how she's treating him. And it is the dictionary definition of gaslighting, to dispute that is coming from a very warped perspective.

That's not to say how she ended up getting to a place of such apathy for the relationship may have been a lot of OP's doing, we don't know her side of this, but her behaviour towards him since is despicable and the clear lack of respect displayed doesn't come back. Any sort of attempt at resolution on his part is futile here and will only end up back at the status quo of her doing what she wants and him being a justifiably anxious/suspicious mess.

OP needs to be made fully cognicant of the realities here(as hard as it is to accept), not given hope where its clear there is none.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907428#Comment_117907428

And I could equally say that there are some very warped views about the OP's partner being expressed here based on just a couple of posts but I don't actually care if the jump to cry dump her brigade condemn me for not sharpening a pitchfork and instead giving the OP my - female perspective - on what he should do if he wants to work things out. And he says he wants to work things out. Several times. Clearly.

Seems like many a poster here just don't want him to work it out and think he should head for the hills - or sling her out and let her head for the hills - while not listening to him when he says there are reasons he feels that is not possible - including their children. How is all the condemnation helping the OP in this situation exactly?

He has been clear that separation is not what he wants - and hearing posters shouting dump her over and over in response.

Maybe they will separate. They could very well be the best solution. If they do I hope for their children it is civilised. Not filled with on-going recriminations and accusations of gaslighting etc so not only are their children's lives disrupted, they also have to listen to their parent's continue to fight it out.

If the OP has an issue with my advice I will take that on board and bow out. Until such time I will continue to not wave a pitchfork in anyone's direction and give my honest opinion.

Jequ0n

@Bannasidhe To be honest I am not sure why you feel it necessary to shoehorn a gender debate into this thread.

Do you seriously think people would have responded differently if the OP was female? I very much doubt it.

I agree with you there always seem to be people who advise any OP to leave a relationship ASAP, which is not helpful.

In this case it’s pretty obvious that there appears to be a power imbalance of some sort in the relationship, which is complicated by communication issues.

It is certainly not helpful to make the OP question himself even more. If there is a history to the power imbalance both parties are used to their roles, and the outcome will reflect those.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907549#Comment_117907549

I don't see why anyone needs to discuss me tbh but yet here we are.

I didn't 'shoehorn gender' into the debate - I was accused by a poster of having an extremely biased female perspective - so that poster assumed I am female - I never stated my gender until after that. But I am apparently now the one who brought gender into it.

Another poster tells us that heterosexual females will always turn to other women for emotional support. Talk about shoehorning gender into it.

As I said - if the OP wants me to go away I will do so. He can PM me or say so here. I have zero issue with that.

Big Bag of Chips

All posters are reminded that Personal Issues is an advice forum. The OP has come asking for advice, and advice from all angles is welcome.

Posters are asked to not enter into argument or one-upmanship with each other. Focus on the OP when replying and let him take any advice that he feels appropriate to his situation and ignore advice that isn't.

She seems to me to be a very cold sort of a person, without much enduring love in her heart for anyone. She probably doesn’t even “love” the other man, but is currently “excited” by him, and would leave him too if another novelty came her way if she became bored. It’s not that he has something “better” to offer than you.

Some people transpire to be so self-interested, lacking in empathy and basic respect, and not capable of offering enduring love. Nothing at all you did wrong. I have heard cases of partners leading almost double lives, eg taking long term contraception without knowledge of their partner, having a long-term affair “almost” in plain sight where the other was unquestionably trusting, undergoing medical tests overseas, eg, on pretence of visiting family. Some would stay in the pretence of relationship maybe for purely financial or convenience reasons, that it currently suits their purpose.

At least when there are children involved and it is for their sake, there is some sense of commonality and purpose remaining and a lovely legacy of your relationship.

maxwell smart

Thanks for all the replies and thoughts. I value them all. Even those very critical of my stance/approach.

All your views are being taken on good faith. And I don't want anyone to feel like I'd like them to stop offering advice.

I'm starting to get some inner strength from you all. Maybe I am being taken for a ride. Maybe she is genuine in her thinking that it's my fault. It's hard to take responsibility sometimes and she was never good at that.

This will annoy some of you, but I know that if we kissed all our problems would melt away.

Maybe that's my way of fooling myself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908966#Comment_117908966

It would be hard to be alone. Lonely. Uncomfortable. Unloved. Outcast. You are right about measuring that up.

You may be right from your own point of view to choose this relationship, however difficult, over the prospect of loneliness and feeling cast out.

But you may also have to accept that unless your partner changes, there is a price you have to pay not to be alone.

Pussyhands

OP, do you have such little respect for yourself that your wife will be shagging another man while she comes back the next night and sleeps beside you in your bed?

Because even if she isn't bedding anyone else at the moment, she will eventually.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908966#Comment_117908966

Not so much critical. But just pointing out that you can't create a healthy relationship by being the only one who compromises.

You can suck it up, and keep a relationship going. But you'll not simply be pushing the issue down the road. I think it will be more destructive in the long run.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908966#Comment_117908966

Fully understand you.

Dial Hard

Sorry, OP, but that "If we kissed" stuff is utter Disney nonsense. Your marriage has been on the verge for at least a decade by the sounds of things

Go to counselling. I get that you want to save this. I really do. But you don't have the tools and I'm not sure your wife has the inclination to do it without professional help. You (plural) should have done it years ago, tbh.

maxwell smart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909783#Comment_117909783

I fully appreciate what you are saying.

Maybe I don't have the tools or skill set to sort this out, and maybe she doesn't have the inclination.

But I need to try for the kids. I can take the pain if they are OK

Jequ0n

But how are you trying to fix this? You aren’t addressing the root cause and this will re-emerge until you work on it with an impartial third party (councillor).

Currently you are just brushing things under the carpet

Hannibal_Smith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909821#Comment_117909821

You're not listening.

You've spent 10 years trying to brush all this under the carpet hand it hasn't worked. Instead, your wife has had another affair and you are left following her to car parks and spying on her. Now she is seething with you and you are wondering how long her anger will last.

You have two choices here, brush it all under the carpet or address it. You've tried the first one and you've been given a suggestion on how to move on in a healthy way. I would suggest counselling by yourself first because you will only waste time trying to broach the subject with your wife about going together.

What you do with the advice is of course up to you, but if you're so intent on fixing things then actually fix them.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907295#Comment_117907295

Well when she said it started with enjoying the attention and then it 'got out of hand' I think there's a good bit more to it than winky smilies.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117910465#Comment_117910465

We don't know this, not really. We're seeing this through the OP's filter when he is in a very emotional state. It could be fairly innocuous, such, 'you were a great kisser back in the day'. That could be tough on the OP and he may have challenged her with it getting out of hand, and she agreeing.

Maybe the OP has since clarified, will give a read.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909821#Comment_117909821

Having fully read the thread it seems like you are okay with a marriage of convenience, if things could just stay the way they are you can live with it. The law of entropy dictates otherwise.

In a way, your biggest mistake was confronting her, as this has sped up the demise of the 'marriage'. If you've got to the point of grinning and bearing it, let her have the affair. You are not sleeping with her, your sleeping in the same room is being tolerated for now.

Marriage counselling can work even with a deep cut, it cannot reattach a severed limb.

IF there is a spare room move into it.

BTW, if you think a kiss will save it, kiss her. If she refuses that you only have a marriage in name only, tell her to enjoy herself with her running mate, just continue to lie about it just being an emotional affair. You might get another year of two before even the marriage of convenience ends.

TheadoreT

I don't really buy the "for the kids" argument as some sort of noble stance. It's probably a selfish one in reality. Obviously a separation would cause about a year of extreme turbulence in their lives but a bad year is preferable to a whole childhood living in a toxic home. And don't think kids aren't intuitive to these things.

You also have to consider what sort of role model you want them to see you as. Daddy chasing cheating mammy around car parks then apologising for her affairs isn't exactly the best look for someone. You'll never have good mental health in this relationship. Trust is obviously long eroded and can't be rebuilt (not that it sounds like she even wants to attempt to).

The best thing you can do for your kids is to try find self worth and happiness outside this relationship and possibly find a new one that displays healthier mutual respect. And stop being a bloody walkover.

Housefree

Tell me this have you told any of your family about what has happened? If not why? And if you did, what advice had they for you?

maxwell smart

Some good questions there from you all.

Have I told anyone? One close friend as a sounding board.

Am I happy with a marriage of convenience, no.

Have I been fooling myself? More than likely.

I've taken lots of the advice on board and have decided I'm going to tell her she has to move out.

As an interesting aside the 'running buddy' is 'happily married'. I've got images of all their messages. I'm having a crisis of conscious as it were around telling his wife.

Anyway I'll park that for now.

In the morning, it's the moving out discussion as we both work from home on a Monday and the kids will be in school.

Jequ0n

The other man is not your problem, so stay out of it but keep the messages. For now your problem is with your wife and nobody else.

Seems strange that you went from denial to “move out” confrontation without transition tbh. I have seen this before and it might not work in reality, even though it seems clear cut in your mind now.

Think about how you do this as she can easily turn this around on you as having kicked her out and yadda yadda. Best of luck

maxwell smart

Maybe I've been transitioning subconsciously.

Maybe I've had enough.

Maybe my heart can't take any more.

Maybe I've finally woken up.

Maybe I'll crack and fail

Best of luck OP, I don’t think either of ye will get any work done tomorrow tbh. Get some food on board before you start.

It's very hard OP to see things objectively when you are in the middle of an emotional situation.

Everyone wants to believe that their situation is different, their other half is not like other people believe.

Eventually you will come to understand that your other half is exactly how others see her. It's going to be heartbreaking, but you need to stand up for yourself and look after you and your kids.

maxwell smart

Thanks for the kind thoughts and (I'm going to assume) positive words.

I'm fed up being a car crash. It's time for me to be the person I can be. I need to channel that person I am in work into my personal life.

Someone said think of the kids. Maybe that was the wake up call I needed.

There will be no work done tomorrow. But it will hw the first step on a long road of very hard choices.

I want to thank you all for your words and advice. Especially those of you who were brutally honest with me. Maybe I needed that metaphorical slap in the face.

For the first time in a long time, I feel like myself.

As they might say in some movie

'It's time to go to work'.

Be kind

Big Bag of Chips

I get the impression that you are going to hit her with this tomorrow in a bid to maybe frighten her into copping on. To make her realise what she is risking.

It might work, or it might not. You need to have a plan for what's the next step if A: She refuses to leave, which is almost guaranteed or B: She begs and pleads and promises that things will be different.

Either way, I don't think the conversation tomorrow is going to go a straight easy route. But you have now made some decisions. It's a good step. I hope you're OK.

Zak Flaps

I'm on your side OP, I really am. I hope it works out OK for you.

I agree with almost all of the posters here. She has no right to be angry with you. It's the other way round and she has somehow managed to make you believe that it's your fault. I think you need to be strong and stand up to her. She was in the wrong, not you.

I think counselling would be the best option. I don't think just the 2 of you discussing these events would be wise. I think she would come out on top as she seems to have in the past. A counsellor is needed.

osarusan

OP, I think it's very unlikely that this woman is going to just agree that she should pack her bags. It's much more likely that she either blows a gasket with you, or realises you have reached a limit and offers a load of apologies and promises to change/stop.

So make sure you know what you want from this upcoming conversation. Do you truly want her to leave? Do you actually just want her to acknowledge how bad her behaviour has been? Or do you want her telling you how much she still loves you?

Work out what you want the outcome to be, and be prepared to respond to various ways she might try to shift the focus of the conversation, various things she might bring up.

Good luck.

qwerty13

Please don’t ‘stay for the sake of the children’. You’ll mess up their perception of relationships for their whole life, and make it hard for them to trust and form attachments. I do speak of experience of that. Please read the thread in this forum re a guy who feels that he should stay in a toxic relationship, because of a child. You will not only be doing the children no favours by staying, you will damage them, long term.

If you have issues with that, please talk to a professional re the best outcome for your kids.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117906477#Comment_117906477

I,m sorry but i would also be getting Paternity tests done. I would not trust this wagon

Stiro05

Hi op, I was in a very similar situation. I caught my wife having an emotional affair with an old school friend. Everytime I found some evidence , she would deny it and make some wild cover up to make me think I'm loosing my mind. The more I found out about the relationship the more she would make out I'm wrong and it's over because I'm snooping in to her private life blah blah. After 18 months of doing the same thing, finding myself apologizing for confronting etc. , I finally cracked and pull the plug on the marriage. I endured 18 months of torture to try and keep out family together and to keep my kids happy. I'm now happily remarried and if I could rewind the clock back to the first time I confronted my ex wife, I would have walked then not 18months later. It's not worth damaging your mental health, it will send you round the twist thinking about it all the time and you won't be able to fully trust your wife again. Kids are tougher than we think, it's better for them to have happy parents. Good luck and all I will say is seek legal advice and counselling.

Yurt2

Ultimatum time. Your boundaries have been violated and she knows it. She shuts this sh*t down with the man and you both go to couples counseling and practice extreme honesty or you should walk. You don't have a smoking gun, but there is at least a reasonable probability there has been a physical aspect to the affair, prepare yourself for that possibility.

Don't put up with gaslighting, and don't be a doormat. Good luck.

Sleepy

It sounds like your biggest mistake in turning up to their running meeting was making your presence known too early tbh. Odds on if you'd waited another half an hour you'd have caught them in the act.

maxwell smart

Hi All

OP here. we had our discussion. I feel it was very open. The result is that we are going to go to couples counselling- next week and try to work it out or part amicably.

I think that is a bit of a success?

SunnySundays

Yes, it's abit of success to agree to couples counselling & I can't see how anything can be resolved without it.

That said, counselling will only help if you are both open and honest.

Be prepared to compromise if needed but not to self sacrifice just to maintain the relationship on her terms.

Before counselling, think about what you want and need, where your boundaries are and what you need rather than just accommodating her as you have done in the past.

Even if you decide to seperate, hopefully the counselling will help you figure out a way to do it as amicably as possible.

You also have to consider what's best for your kids and it isn't always for you to stay together as many people who grew up with parents who stayed together for no other reason will attest to.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925526#Comment_117925526

No, it's the absolute bare minimum she owes you. Success or otherwise will be determined by the outcome of the counselling process.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117899560#Comment_117899560

I can guarantee you if the shoe was on the other foot, the GF would have not been so understanding as OP...

Girls always seem to think "oh it's emotional, nothing physical happened, soz" and it's batted off .... try do that to a girl, I guarantee you wouldn't still be running and still in a relationship...

"I kept running for my mental health, and I really like the crew I run with" .... proceeds to run with one guy

OP is being gaslit, no matter what way you try to pitch it....

Big Bag of Chips

Be clear with what you want from this. Because I think right now, because you've told her you've had enough, she's on damage limitation. She doesn't want her marriage to end, because she doesn't want people to know that it's because of her actions. So, I think, right now she is willing to tell you anything you want to hear.

Maybe, just maybe this is the kick in the arse she needs to realise what she is risking. Your marriage might survive this and be all the better for it. Or it might end and you both go your separate ways. Whatever happens it can't be any worse than another 10 years of her making you feel like this.

Be clear on what you want, and what you expect. She can either agree or walk away.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901105#Comment_117901105

It's also very hard to prove and is probably one of the biggest mindfucks you will go through while being gaslit numerous times while everything is being perceived as being OK

Best of luck with the counselling OP. You are a faithful person, you are still in love with your wife, you put in the effort, you deserve to get yourself peace of mind. The counselling will allow some forward direction, wherever that takes you.

If she is still running with "the group" while you're going to go to counselling, I wouldn't even bother tbh...

She went beyond a red line with someone and is happy to keep them around while you two "fix" things....

admitting to an emotional affair is usually a half arsed admission of a full affair.... guilty conscience cleared through admission of something to the other person

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907295#Comment_117907295

Thats kind of what I was getting at.......I realise things can develop from friendship and that this may not simply just be friendship. But what exactly made what the wife did any kind of affair?

Now having said all that I'm not the best person to be giving relationship advice in fairness and most seem to be saying wife in the wrong. Id just like to know what she did as she hasnt slept with the other guy so what has she done thats pushing in that direction.....then again running alone with the guy after saying going running with group.....

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925526#Comment_117925526

That all depends on why she agreed to counselling in the first place.

It may be the case that your conversation (if you said something about her moving out, or otherwise shocked her) has made her get defensive and now she'll agree to whatever she needs to, in order to galm you down.

Without her genuinely acknowledging that her behaviour has been poor, and genuinely wanting to repair the relationship, you're not really making progress.

How you determine whether she is genuine, or it's just lip service, I don't know.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925526#Comment_117925526

It'll largely depend on the counsellor you see tbh. I wouldn't expect your other half to keep attending sessions with a good one as they'll expect her to confront her poor behaviour, own it, apologise for it and work to make it up to you rather than lie to you and try to make you feel guilty for catching her.