Social Democrats

Augme

A country that has a 11% corporation tax and has spend millions in legal fees to try and ensuring apple don't have to pay any tax has never had a right of centre government. Funniest thing I've read in a long time.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277289#Comment_120277289

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277324#Comment_120277324

Do we have to reprise this unresolvable debate in every thread on Irish politics?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277324#Comment_120277324

It really isn't ya know.

I'm a radical centrist. Socially liberal, economically conservative. This Government mostly ticks my boxes, apart from Green policies impeding economic development. But not to worry, we'll get rid of them soon enough.

NewbridgeIR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276749#Comment_120276749

He's in for six months to cover maternity leave. Angry man on Twitter - we have quite a few mutuals on FB - and they're all similar to him.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277370#Comment_120277370

How is it debatable?, they trumpet increased spending over tax cuts at every budget

ThePentagon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275995#Comment_120275995

Christ, that face is straight out of Central Casting.

I checked his twitter there and apparently I have him blocked, which confirms he must indeed be a hardcore Soc Dem ultra 😄

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277380#Comment_120277380

It really is pathetic isn't it? Not a single one of them would be able to define the word either. It's used as a negative trope aimed at those who are pro-SSM, abortion, women's rights etc.

It's used so people don't actually have to admit what they actually are.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277370#Comment_120277370

My favourite bit of the lip service to woke issues was the passing of two referendums to confirm marriage equality and ensure access to safe and legal abortion.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277430#Comment_120277430

It's not unresolveable.

Anyone saying this is a left wing government has their heads in the clouds. It has absolutely zero basis in reality.

jmcc

The choice of SocDem leader may determine the fate of Labour. Labour's support seems to have collapsed in younger demographics according to opinion polls and Labour wants to get its claws into SocDem votes hence the propaganda about "mergers". Labour is as much a party of the past as FF. If Cairns or Gannon wins the leadership it will be a nightmare for Labour because there will be a possible boost from younger voters seeing someone closer to their own age leading a party. (Not sure about Whitmore but Cairns and Gannon are good media performers.) In some respects, the SocDems are Labour without the Stickies (Official SF/Workers Party) baggage and could become a vote magnet for the Left of centre voters who don't want to vote FFG or Labour. I think that there's a RedC poll due this weekend and the publicity of the SocDem leadership change might have a slight visible effect.

Regards...jmcc

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277703#Comment_120277703

I think that there's a RedC poll due this weekend and the publicity of the SocDem leadership change might have a slight visible effect.

True, if you get a super high powered microscope you might just see a move, well within the margin of error, that's for sure.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277594#Comment_120277594

FFG didn't pass those referundums, the people did.

They only brought them because they new they would pass and it would play well with younger voters.

Kudos if you stood up for abortion rights and marriage equality in the 70-80's or before that, doing so in the last 10 years of so is just playing to demographics.

In FFG management speak, it's 'low hanging fruit'. Sadly some have been gullible enough to buy into it.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277931#Comment_120277931

Ah come on now it wasnt always easy in the 90s or early 2000s either. Gay male sex and Condoms were only fully decriminalised in the early 90s.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277889#Comment_120277889

What makes RedC different from the rest is that its panel based approach has characteristics of a random poll (measures opinion at a specific point int time) and a tracking poll (measures the change of opinion in a group of the same people over multiple polls). Publicity does give a boost to small parties and though the movements will be small, they will be in the soft Left/ex-Labour voter demographics. If there are indications of a soft Left consolidation beginning with the SocDems then Labourites will be very upset because it could see the SocDems heading towards 10% support with Labour's support falling below 3%.

The SocDems could also begin to attract some of the water melon (Green on the outside and Labour on the inside) support from the Greens as the SocDems are an acceptable Anyone But FFG/SF/Lab choice.

Regards...jmcc

Triangle

In all fairness, I'd say the minority parties/independents in government had a big impact in having those referendums.

The standard FG voter's/TDs were split on the decision over the decades prior to them.

So, saying it was solely FG looking for votes is a bit of an anti FG view imo.

But this is going away from the thread.

JohnJoFitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277590#Comment_120277590

Since when has being pro-SSM, abortion, etc been woke?

I voted for both of the above and I despise wokies.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277973#Comment_120277973

Not to drag away from the thread, but I think FFG identified it wasn't going to cost them votes.

Their conservative base had no alternative to switch to, but it would attract young voters.

I'm sure such moves have been going on in politics forever, but in the age of social media and data analytics, larger parties especially can see beforehand what issues play well with certain demographs, or might upset other groups.

You'll see it at play in how FFG have approached housing, their first time buyer supports have had a negative impact overall, but they've obviously identified it plays well with a certain young middle class group. If those people feel that FFG have given them 30k to the cost of a house their likely to garner long term support.

It has been effective for them but I think governments who rely so much on this degree of spin and manipulation eventually get found out. See 'new' labour in the uk, what's their legacy?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277590#Comment_120277590

It refers to someone who ( Beit genuinely or not) near religiously ( yet often without any real thought analysis) adheres to approved opinions - edicts when it comes to various perceived progressive causes and this often involves varying degrees of identity politics whereby if a person from a minority background is the centre of the story, any analysis must foremost consider said persons minority status ahead of deeds or actions carried out by said persons be they positive or negative

WOKE is a lot more than compassion, tolerance and lashings of empathy as it’s practitioners often like to claim

Water John

Cairns and Bacik, two good Cork women. I'm sure they'd manage to cooperate on many issues.

The Social Democrats are the Labour Party for folks who are a bit slow on the uptake. Labour have never been afraid of being in government and dealing with the realities of things like recessions, balancing budgets, working with parties of different ideologies.

If the Soc Dems are in coalition then they will have to deal with the same realities.

howiya

Gary Gannon rules himself out. Probably worried he'd have to attend the Dail more often

Water John

FG would be the most right wing of the main parties, historically. Strange mix then when LB used to go into coalitions with them. Hard to know what type of coalition numbers will be available after the next GE. SD shouldn't rule out being part of one.

JohnJoFitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278257#Comment_120278257

Twitter pronouns are an absolute essential badge of the Wokie also.

megaten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278076#Comment_120278076

It's not a real word, just something silly people use. (think it even started a joke that us right wingers started using seriously?)

Dunno if the Social Democrats will do well long term, the two co-leaders didn't seem that interested in long term growth of the part. Shame since I thought there was good opportunity for a Labour Party that isn't quite so beholden to the public sector unions. Who knows if any of the current active members are interested in developing the party nationwide. Remember hearing a lot of the councillors in the last local elections were just parachuted in.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277931#Comment_120277931

No one knew those referendums would pass at the time they were proposed. No one knew until the ballot boxes were opened on the day after.

You're trying to rewrite history now with 20/20 hindsight. Putting those issues to a vote were fairly brave decisions by FG, heavily influenced by Labour in both cases.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278694#Comment_120278694

I'm pretty sure all the polling beforehand strongly indicated both proposals would pass.

But if you're so certain these referendums were brought in for heartfelt, genuine purposes, can you explain to me how this amazing FFG moral compass operates? It's so finely attuned to the cause of reproductive and lbgtqb+ issues, yet they can readily trample over the disabled, unhoused and leave the elderly die on trolleys?

It wasn't even about winning the referendums, it was about being able to pitch that they were relevant to a certain youth demograph, knowing they wouldn't lose the older vote to any substantial extent.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278934#Comment_120278934

Are you saying that polling indicated strongly that both proposals would pass, before the decision was made to hold the referendums?

farmingquestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278337#Comment_120278337

A leader has to look at the national picture, Gaz has no interest in national issues. He only cares about the north inner city and things he used to do as councillor.

farmingquestion

Would this indicate Murphy and Shortall won't be running for re-election?

If so, SDs will do well to hold 6 TDs.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277703#Comment_120277703

Are you labeling Ivana Bacik as some old fuddy duddy? As far as I know she was in Trinners at the same time as the great SF hope Mary Lou and of similar age. Whilst Bacik was active in politics in the university, apparently Mary Lou hid her light under a bushel. And yet, the latter is being touted as the next female, young & vibrant Taoiseach.