Social Democrats

Loafing Oaf · 22-02-2023 3:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275176#Comment_120275176

I'd imagine not, given their ages

Faugheen · 22-02-2023 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275214#Comment_120275214

They’re not, like.

Some people here are so firmly to the right that they’ve deluded themselves to think that they’re in the centre.

Furze99 · 22-02-2023 3:07pm

Ah the familiar split.

howiya · 22-02-2023 3:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275250#Comment_120275250

Yeah that's what I was thinking

elperello · 22-02-2023 3:19pm

Not saying they got everything right but they have always been hardworking committed politicians.

I wish them all the best for the future.

scrumqueen · 22-02-2023 3:19pm

Significant statement due at 3pm.

Personally very disappointed at the direction the party has taken. As others have said, they seem to be a magnet for oddballs and the wokerati. Unfortunately, with a party membership and following that small, the wokerati are disproportionately louder, and as such have tainted the profile of the party.

On the other hand, the party have some very capable, passionate and hard working TD's and Councillors in their ranks.

The party really had the potential to be that left of centre party with strong sensible economic policies that could mop up the swathes of voters who remember what happened with 2011-2016 Labour and cant stomach a full on SF Government.

So much potential wasted. A sad day. I think Jennifer Whitmore would be a good leader and a steady hand for them.

Furze99 · 22-02-2023 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275335#Comment_120275335

They'd be better off realigning with Labour - too many small voices on the liberal left now. There's a substantial floating vote wafting SFs way next election and a well organised democratic liberal party of the left could claim a lot of that. I stress democratic as there's still a strong whiff of cordite and the iron fist of northern nationalism on how SF conducts it's affairs which is a turn off.

scrumqueen · 22-02-2023 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275372#Comment_120275372

They will NEVER EVER merge with Labour. The reason the SDs exist is because of the problems of Labour and how they treated core membership and the fall out of their last time in power.

For numbers in a GE sense yes it makes sense but ideologically speaking it just wont happen.

Furze99 · 22-02-2023 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275399#Comment_120275399

Labours ills in last elections were driven by vicious attacks from the Shinners who set out to cannibalise their vote. The sooner other parties/ individuals of the liberal left cop on and join forces, the better as otherwise extinction awaits.

Brussels Sprout · 22-02-2023 3:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275399#Comment_120275399

I wouldn't be so confident as to say Never Ever. There really is not much between them policy wise. The thing that seemed to be separating them mostly was the mutual dislike between Shorthall and Brendan Howlin. They're both gone as leaders now (and could well be retiring at the end of this Dail).

It's been 8 years since the party was formed now. How many Soc Dem members are actually ex-Labour members? Nobody under 26 anyway

Larbre34 · 22-02-2023 3:47pm

Ironically, for having 33.3% of their TDs called leader, they've been rudderless.

I wonder if yesterday was the last straw. I heard Shortall get her arse handed to her by a very energised Jennifer Carroll-MacNeill on the wireless, concerning the cost of living package.

The reality is, they don't have a distinct offering. They've bent over backwards so much to seem so inclusive and democratic that they have no forward momentum, no core, no major policy goals.

Whitmore isn't good leadership material in my opinion. In fact, I think only Gannon is, but I think he's a Shinner in disguise too.

They will no doubt elect a new leader now, but the big dynamic will surely become Ivana Bacik starting the clock for 18 months to reintegrate SDs into Labour and fight the 2025 election as a single centre-left champagne socialist offering, with a green tinge.

There could be 15 seats in it for them in a 175 seat Dáil and thats Kingmaker territory.

scrumqueen · 22-02-2023 3:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275453#Comment_120275453

OK, valid point. Not sure how it would come about but given the fact that FF and FG are probably eyeing up another confidence and supply agreement the left needs to come up with a radical approach or yes bad things await. And when I say radical, I don't mean another "vote left, transfer left" one line reminder to voters at GE time either.

Topgear on Dave · 22-02-2023 3:50pm

From seeing a lot of their social media the Soc Dems would be very serious and highly principled left wingers.

They wouldn't regard the labour party as being anything like them at all.

I wish the two leaders well, the soc dems have been an excellent vehicle for them.

Larbre34 · 22-02-2023 3:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275506#Comment_120275506

Lol, it'll be the rock they perish on if so.

Mad_maxx · 22-02-2023 3:58pm

The Soc Dems should join the Green Party, no difference between them in policy whatsoever, one is green on the outside, the other purple, both are red underneath

Cluedo Monopoly · 22-02-2023 4:04pm

I hope Shortall stays on as a TD. She has repeatedly destroyed numerous govt TDs on the health service disasters (waiting lists, trolleys, children's hospital, capacity, mental health services, staffing levels, burnout etc). She has honour and integrity - she correctly stood up to a clearly corrupt FG health minister (James Reilly) when he had lost the run of himself.

Whitmore would be a good leader.

Cairns did incredible work on the Mother and Baby home issue which FFG continually tried to stall.

Danzy · 22-02-2023 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275439#Comment_120275439

To a certain level but mostly it was down to labour having a membership that was largely uninterested in the ground work, out of touch with the base, the party doesn't seem to care either way if it survives or not

Furze99 · 22-02-2023 4:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275545#Comment_120275545

Sure, not really that much between SD, Greens, Labour and likeminded independents.

If they pooled their talents and numbers and came up with a new identity, they could be a serious force and the long awaited substantial alternative to FG/FF. Be a pity to lose the Labour Party name after a century and more but everything comes to an end sometime.

Danzy · 22-02-2023 4:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275603#Comment_120275603

There are 2 factions in the Greens, there used be 2 in Labour, know who knows, there are significant differences between older SD members and new younger ones.

It's very difficult to see them coalesce.

Cluedo Monopoly · 22-02-2023 4:18pm

Joining Labour would be a disaster. Labour have soiled themselves so much in previous coalitions with FFG. Especially the Gilmore years where power swap greed took over completely after winning 30 odd seats.

Brussels Sprout · 22-02-2023 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275581#Comment_120275581

You'd wonder would Cairns be put off by the unwanted attention that she has been receiving from random strangers. If she became leader that would likely only intensify since she'd be more in the public eye.

jmcc · 22-02-2023 4:24pm

If the SocDems can execute the leadership transfer to a younger leader then Labour is in some very deep crap as it will copperfasten the idea of it being just the same as FF/FG with old leaders and no new ideas. The only thing that the Labourites want are the SocDem votes so that they can keep their snouts in the trough.

Regards...jmcc

Larbre34 · 22-02-2023 4:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275637#Comment_120275637

If they don't ever wish to be in Government, they should definitely follow your advice.

Cluedo Monopoly · 22-02-2023 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275666#Comment_120275666

Whatever. You keep voting the way Daddy tells you.

Annasopra · 22-02-2023 4:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275399#Comment_120275399

Ideologically speaking Gary Gannon wanted to sit with Labour group in the European Parliament.

The thing is 40 years ago everyone said the Democratic Socialist Party and Labour would never merge. They did. 30 years ago everyone said Labour and Democratic Left would never merge. They did.

Galwayguy35 · 22-02-2023 5:04pm

They seem to have no interest in trying to engage with voters outside well off urban areas and bottled the chance to enter Government afer the last election yet the 2 old queens spent the last few years moaning about everything.

Could be in for a wipe out in the next election at the hands of the shinners.