Social Democrats

blackwhite

Stories circulating yesterday of a letter from a number of SD members and some Councillors calling for leadership elections within the party. Given the party was formed as a vehicle for 3 individuals initially - but has clearly evolved into a much broader party then it’s hard to argue that at some point they need to, at the very least, affirm that the membership and parliamentary party have given a mandate to the leader(s).

Can’t help but think that they’d be one hell of a political force with the likes of Gannon or Cairns at the helm of the party.

They wouldn’t necessarily be my cup of tea in terms of economic policies, but with one of those two as leader they could potentially kill off Labour once and for all, and become a serious rival to SF for left-leaning voters

It would be foolish for em to walk away from leadership they have imo

Would been the easy option last year for em to sit in government and pocket handy pensions and face wipeout at next election ala greens,PDs,labour effectively dead.....

if they serious they should build and sap support from ffg,aiming particularly for the youth/progressive FG vote,as realistically its prime for taking and unlikely to go towards shinners/labour at this stage......(though also need be stronger on local issue)

RamonD3

They could certainly use a single leader for some direction, I'm not entirely sure what they stand for.

Personally I don't like Gannon or Cairns. Although they are primed to target the millennial vote. I gave Cian O'Callaghan a second preference the last time, purely on the back of a leaflet he had about various inequalities of opportunity and services between different postal codes. But listening to their deputies I am mostly hearing them championing whatever the latest crusade is. And don't start me on zero covid!

Augme

Cairns and Gannon don't have enough experience to lead yet. Though I think both are very good. They still struggle as a proper functioning political party and don't seem to have enough td/councillors yet to take out labour.

BonnieSituation

They need to continue to grow the way they are. It's tempting to see this slow build as unattractive but it's the best way. Otherwise they risk imploding.

I think a leadership change after the next general election would be more apt.

They're where my votes will be going anyway.

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655858#Comment_117655858

Yeah would agree with this, growth of political parties comes at a glacial pace. If party members think it can be sped up simply by a change of leader they should be careful what they wish for.

Id say the SDs main problem is that Murphy & Shorthall are both are 67 years old and one or both of them might be thinking of retirement at the next election in 3 years time when they hit 70. Their votes are personal ones so it wont be easy for the SDs to hang onto those seats when they do retire.

Holly Cairns would be the obvious new leader in time but if Murphy & Shortall did retire and their seats were not retained then she would have an even smaller party to lead. If that happens there will be talk of a merger with Labour. I couldnt see that happening so long as Kelly is the leader because theres a lot of animus towards him but further down the road it could happen if the SDs lose seats. Retaining the Murphy & Shortall seats will be vital to their long term survival as a party.

Pherekydes

I would have voted for them at the last election but they didn't have a candidate here (Dublin mid-west). They need to field more candidates.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117656060#Comment_117656060

They actually couldn't field a candidate in that instance. Too many elections came too quickly. They were right to rationalise. That's good leadership.

rolling boh

suppose it depends who they get to stand with a profile and be prepared to play the long game maybe a really long game can get stuck between not backing FFFG or doing so and paying a huge price and back to where they started.Not a left wing supporter but with so many independents and groups that fall out with each other over nothing really we need a party that can offer a choice that would actually take the plunge and go into goverment that could cut a deal with the likely partners .

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058200511/social-democrats

I'd say they have got as big as they are going to get, maybe another seat or two but they are going for the same middle class liberal voters as Labour, the Greens and in some areas SF.

Parties like Labour, the SDs and the Greens will never be popular or rural or working class urban areas so their options are limited in how many TDs they can get elected.

expectationlost

Soc Dems constitution

Following a general election in consequence of which the Party does not enter into

Government, the term of office of the Party Leader(s) shall end three months after the date of

formation of the new Government. Should no party member be elected to the Dáil, Seanad or European Parliament, the leadership falls open to all members eligible to vote for party leader.

https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Social-Democrats-Constitution-Updated-27th-February-2021.pdf

apparently no-one put themselves forward to contest them

costacorta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117656039#Comment_117656039

Holly won’t hold her seat in next election never mind be leader of SD . Unfortunately as I think she has ability but I think she will be a one term TD and could disappear from politics.

jd1983

They were given an open goal over the past 16 months and instead kicked the ball towards authoritarianism rather than civil liberties. I've voted for them in the past but even before covid I was weary of their overly woke priorities.

They should have followed the example of actual social democratic countries like the nordic countries who had some of the lightest restrictions in Europe. Instead they followed the Democrats in America during covid. It's as if they felt compelled to be on the opposite side to Trump from the beginning without continually reappraising the situation.

Saying all this, I wouldn't completely rule out voting for them again but that really just shows how terrible the options are at present. They can redeem themselves if they get back to the basics like reducing the cost of living, equal access to healthcare/ eduction rather than focusing so much energy on fringe concerns like animal welfare or crusades against religion.

expectationlost

really find it bizarre people saying they voted for people who's politics they clearly don't agree with

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655848#Comment_117655848

A lack of experience didn't stop Dick Spring from becoming Labour leader in his early thirties, within a year of being elected to the Dáil.

RamonD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657315#Comment_117657315

Ah stop, I gave Aodhan O'Riordan the number one, had to hold my nose 🙂

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657300#Comment_117657300

Animal welfare is a very important issue.

jd1983

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658745#Comment_117658745

Sure, it's definitely a very important issue for some but I'd question the rationale of focusing a lot of energy on this. If you're struggling to pay extortionate rent or homeless, you're probably not going to worry much about how some toff in kildare is treating race horses.

If you've got cancer or a family member has cancer and are on a waiting list that's unusual in the western world, then greyhound welfare is probably a low priority.

Placing a lot of importance on such things often shows activists being out of touch with real struggles.

L1011

You can consider more than one thing at a time to be important you know. Parties that focus on only one thing don't generally get anywhere.

The SDs are polling 1% in some polls currently; Gannon, Cairns and O'Callaghan will all lose their seats if there are better vote management structures in place by SF and FF/FG (for Cairns). This heave is more likely to tear them apart than improve their chances.

Neither Murphy or Shortall has an obvious replacement with a good chance of holding their seat should they wish to retire.

I only know Kildare North well of their constituencies. There, Murphy has three Councillors, but whichever one is more popular with her seems to vary month on month so none of them are actually getting time to build a profile consistently due to that. There's no councillor in two of the substantial MDs either (Celbridge and Maynooth) so there's only Murphy as a name there. It would be exceptionally hard to retain the seat without her.

Constituency has a history of older TDs and candidates, so there'd be nothing to stop her retaining a seat at 70.

freshpopcorn

I don't think Cairns is overly liked in the area she ran in from what I know. I think some gave her a chance or a second presence after voting for her fella at the time and she hasn't impressed.

RandomName2

The SDs are polling 1% in some polls currently; Gannon, Cairns and O'Callaghan will all lose their seats if there are better vote management structures in place by SF and FF/FG (for Cairns). This heave is more likely to tear them apart than improve their chances.

I am surprised by how little traction the SD have. Is it that they overlap too much with too many preexisting parties? They have done little to blot their copy book (other than the initial falling out between Stephen Donnelly and the other leaders), but they seem to barely be registering in polls at all.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678288#Comment_117678288

There is virtually nothing to differentiate them from Labour in terms of policies, and with Labour having more Oireachtas members and 3x the number of councillors they continue to get more media time.

A basis of "We're not Labour, we weren't in Government in 2011-2016" becomes less useful the longer ago 2016 becomes. They would have to become the bigger party and that is unlikely to happen now.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678288#Comment_117678288

They don't have the shock-jock populist profile of Sinn Fein so that limits their appeal to some demographics.

At the other end, there is nothing really inspiring about Murphy or Shortall, quite boring in fact.

mariab21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679035#Comment_117679035

Do you try bring Sinn Fein, the islands most popular party into every thread?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679078#Comment_117679078

Nope, but it is relevant to contrast why the Social Democrats haven't been successful. In the modern context, shouting loudest seems to have an appeal, and the Social Democrats haven't been good at that.

jamule

I think **** the bed Shorthall is a big problem for them, seen as defacto leader with zero ambition but whinge.

and as blanchs says, they don't whing loud enough.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678288#Comment_117678288

All politics is local,(forgetting this has cost ff big time)...cairns and co,who hane done well,and have reasonable local profiles to get reelcted,likely lacking the numbers to bring in a 2nd for now

They are recruiting heavily enough,particularly in youth age groups....with end of covid,their peofile should rise as increased possibility for activism.....the purple is a nice touch as gives a reasonable 'brand' identity for quick identifing.......id give em a preference

Pussyhands

Social Democrats once again showing they are sexist.

Thanking all women on "nollaig na mban" or whatever it's called. I'm surprised and not surprised at the same time that they've done this.

On on hand, they're pro women rather than pro equality so you might expect it. On the other hand, nollaig na mban is where women are given a rest after all the work they did during the Christmas, i.e in the kitchen cooking and cleaning...surely the Soc Dems can't support this?

Someone needs to tell the Soc Dems that if they want to tackle what they perceive as inequality towards women, the solution is equality, not giving preferential treatment to women.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678288#Comment_117678288

They are the ultimate overlap party and there are already at least three other parties to represent their point of view, really five. I never understood why they even came into existence since most Irish politicians across five parties are bog-standard social democrats, so why the need for a capital-S capital-D Social Democrat party?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657300#Comment_117657300

I honestly doubt you ever voted for them. Your language is clearly that of someone who would have been appalled by them long before covid

Mad_maxx

Wouldn't vote for them if you paid me but they should grow steadily, they have a lot of friends in Media, share the same politics as most of the media and especially the NGO sector. That makes them need no PR ,they are criticism proof .

They are the go to party for uber WOKE activists and just regular young middle class progressives, whether they ever wish to join government remains to be seen, unlikely until Roisin Shorthall steps back a bit as she's never been anything but a waffling hurler on the ditch.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432180#Comment_118432180

Except that time when she resigned from government on principle and founded the social democrats.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118434642#Comment_118434642

One way of putting it.

Another is she ran away from tough decisions

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435309#Comment_118435309

No its not. She saw Labour sit on their hands and allow FG away with reilly's clinics and spoke up. Easiest thing to do would be to nod along.

Tough decisions my arse.

Pussyhands

Gannon is a terrible TD. All he does it talk local issues which are more suitable for a councillor to look after.

Really woke too and jumps to conclusions. Too many of these types political persona is based off twitter discussions.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435467#Comment_118435467

Most TD,s prioritise local issues here ,he's not alone there

Obviously he's uber WOKE , that's the parties MO

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118430608#Comment_118430608

Like most of the alphabet soup of left parties - it is about the inability to compromise and lust for power. Once a left party gets to a certain size it splinters and a few ambitious ones form their own smaller party because they believe they alone are right and are therefore morally superior to the group they are leaving - despite there being barely any difference with the party they were in.

For example, during her career Catherine Murphy has been in the Workers' Party, Democratic Left, Labour, Independent, and now Social Democrats

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435467#Comment_118435467

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435683#Comment_118435683

Apparently they are "Woke".

Given the general political leanings of people fond of flinging that term around it's a point in favour of the SD's imo.

They should put it on posters.

We are Woke - FF/FG/GP are asleep.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118438216#Comment_118438216

Soc Dems should grow steadily, I said that earlier, surely that's a positive appraisal?

They don't need everyone's vote

spurious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435702#Comment_118435702

The first three could apply to anyone who was in the Workers' party. That's name changes and assimilation, not switching party. Facts matter.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443297#Comment_118443297

Not sure why you're preaching about facts when your post misrepresents them - those changes were far more than 'name changes'.

Murphy joined De Rossa when he splintered the Workers Party in the exact manner I discussed about parties of the left in my OP. She then initially refused to join the new Labour party because of moral superiority before later changing her mind electoral reasons. She then left them for moral reasons, was an independent for a while before starting another left splinter group that she could preside over (with two other joint leaders because of course they all had to be in power).

Murphy's history is a perfect example of what I discussed in my OP regarding parties of the left splintering.

Dyr

Becuase apparently there arent enough liberal social democrat parties in Ireland

I mean other than SF, FF, FG, Labour and the Greens, who is there?

gmisk

Seriously grim story around grooming and SD councillor.

Does not look good at all.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120063774#Comment_120063774

Two councillors resigning due to scandals in the last year, hard for a small party to survive that type of thing.

As for the allegations made against the Councillor in question, what drives people to do such things? He's been held up as a role model for LGBT youth and this is what he does?

If you want to hand ammunition to anyone with an axe to grind against what they like to call the "gay agenda" this is a sensational way of going about it.

I'm a member of SOC Dems but feel the party has been infiltrated by too many holier than thou wokeists in for nefarious reasons and their own agendas.

A shame as I was a big supporter of Catherine Murphy and Roisin Shortall when they set it up. Candidate selection has been very poor and they won't make any traction.

This story is the final straw. It's time to renounce membership from this pack of oddballs.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120065203#Comment_120065203

But they are only allegations.

In the last few years two prominent media people have had their names dragged through the mud and have had their carrers seriously affected by what turns out to be unfounded allegations.

Let due process take it's course before accuse him of doing anything.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120065488#Comment_120065488

I would normally agree, but the fact the person making the allegations has done so on their own Twitter account, revealing exactly who they are in a public sphere, tells me there might be some merit in them.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120065488#Comment_120065488

I know what you are saying but there have been allegations for a while, the young guy has went public and seemed very genuine not an easy watch.

Who are the two media people?

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120065378#Comment_120065378

Murphy and Shorthall were both dyed in the wool wokies long before the term even existed.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120065378#Comment_120065378

WOKEness is and always was the parties MO , they are simply a more younger WOKE version of the Labour Party

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120065638#Comment_120065638

Shorthall is and was a career hurler on the ditch and prize waffler , Murphy has a bit more steel and conviction but she’s a dreadfully negative sort , similar to that idiot ceann comhairle from Galway ( independent TD Catherine Connolly ) opposes any sort of economic progress