Social Democrats

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067170#Comment_120067170

Linda Hayden.

Were you expecting that question to be difficult for me to answer?

What do the Social Democrats offer that the Labour Party do not?

Danzy

I thought the Social Democrats were going to become something but they became a magnet for a lot of cranks and weirdos that other parties weed out.

They have 2 potential strong performers in Gannon and Cairns. They have 2 weak leaders who seem uninterested in building the party.

Time to be serious about being a party. Turning up is not reason enough to be picked as a candidate without any background check.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445817#Comment_118445817

Fine Gael are part of the European People's Party in the EU.

Fianna Fail are members of the ALDE.

Even by European standards, neither FG nor FF are social democrats.

Labour & Greens should be but both have propped up disastrous anti-social-democratic governments and are an embarrassment to their names. How the Irish Green Party haven't been taken through the courts for sullying the party name I'll never know.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067185#Comment_120067185

That they’ve never been in a position of power to actually have to make hard decisions tends to appeal to a certain cohort of the electorate.

Makes it much easier to pander to the sizeable cohort who expect the state to wipe their arses for them whilst expecting someone else to pick up the tab.

There’s a good few parties in Ireland who make Homer Simpson’s campaign for sanitation commissioner look like the model of financial prudence - and there’s a large section of the electorate who lap it up

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067185#Comment_120067185

They haven't betrayed their voters?

Imagine if Connolly rose from the grave and saw what had become of the Labour Party..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067219#Comment_120067219

I'm not sure if you meant to but your analogy equally applies to SD, SF, PBP

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067309#Comment_120067309

It’s the typical formula for most opposition parties in Ireland, and the sizeable percentage of the electorate will always keep rewarding parties who make unrealistic promises

kalych

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067620#Comment_120067620

Is it only the opposition parties that make unrealistic promises? Or is it that you just decide to signal them out due to some personal biases?

Opposition parties offer an alternative. That's their job. If all parties agreed on everything that'd be a disaster of a political system.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067634#Comment_120067634

Bertie did the same for years, both in and out of power. The c.20bn per year hole in Govt expenditure v incomes in 2009 was what resulted. Both FG & Labour also did the same when they were in opposition to FF pre-2011.

Labour in particular went overboard on promising the sun, the moon and the stars between 2008-2011, and then when they actually made it into Government and were faced with the reality of what could actually be delivered they had to pull on their grown-up pants and start making tough decisions. It's ironic the venom that gets spouted at Labour in the present day from supporters of other opposition parties, when those same parties are doing much the same as Labour did between 2008-11 and if they ever found themselves in power would end up having to make similar tough decisions to Labour.

Responsible opposition promises realistic and achievable alternatives - not promising all things to all people without considering if they can actually be delivered or not.

Promising the land of milk and honey is exactly the tactics followed by the Brexiteers to lie their way to victory in 2016 - that you think our opposition aping that kind of cynical behaviour is a good thing is a reflection on just how poor the judgement of much of our electorate is.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067846#Comment_120067846

Voting public doesn’t want to hear promises of mediocre performance though- and it doesn’t translate to seats won.

kalych

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067846#Comment_120067846

Please provide an example of a responsible opposition promises. Literally any Irish party in any of recent elections.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067899#Comment_120067899

Here is 2 from a supposed party of law and order and fiscal prudence

Ending the scandal of patients waiting on trolleys - 2007

Abolishing the USC - 2016, this promise was made by a party that was in government at the time. So it is not just opposition parties.

timmyntc

So another scandal hits the social democrats - its looking increasingly likely that they will not grow further as a party, and that current size is about their peak. They seem to be plagued by poor quality members.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067233#Comment_120067233

Imagine if De Valera rose from the dead and seen the current iteration of the Fianna Fail party.

Politics change, parties change and those that don't die.

And that is a good thing because I for one don't think the 1920's represented the absolute zeitgeist for politics in Ireland or anywhere else for that matter.

I want political parties that evolve with the country and the people

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067899#Comment_120067899

We haven't had it in over 20 years - that's the entire point. It's become the normal way of doing opposition in Ireland - for all parties in opposition. You're the one seemingly intent on trying to make it into a party-political issue.

Our electorate rewards the politicians who make unachievable promises time and again, and then act surprised and outraged when those unachievable promises aren't achieved.

The last example I can think of an Irish party trying to take a realistic approach was FG over 20 years ago. Noonan tried to preach restraint at the start of the Celtic Tiger period, and got hammered in the 2002 General Election for it. Following that Kenny went down the path of trying to out-Bertie FF, right up to 2008, and then swiftly changing tack to hammering them up to the 2011 election.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067954#Comment_120067954

They’re getting a lot of criticism for how they’ve handled this latest incident (I’m obviously not going to expand given its sub-justice) -I know they’re constrained with what they can say but I’m not reassured by their statement that they acted as soon as the matter was brought to their attention

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678321#Comment_117678321

A lot of people are of the opinion that Labour is dying. they were never a very successful party, and their coalition with FG (one of many) in 2011 demonstrated just how far out of touch they are with what would be considered their natural base.

TagoMago

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067185#Comment_120067185

Probably not a huge amount policy wise but the SDs have young, charismatic TDs in their ranks who get a lot of airtime. Think they've been a bit disappointing and may struggle for relevancy when FFG are the main opposition parties, but they bounced back pretty well after Donnelly left which potentially could have been disastrous for them.

Labour by comparison are completely irrelevant and stale at this stage.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068134#Comment_120068134

In fairness, they would have taken legal advice at the time (one of their statements indicates that they acted on the basis of Senior Counsel advice), and were highly likely to be limited in what they could do without prejudicing any future trial - which people wouldn't thank them for had they done so.

Removing the whip and reporting all relevant details to Gardai and Tusla is likely the extent of what they could do.

I don't know the party's constitution, but a process to expell him at the time would likely have to have been done in a fairly public manner with votes possibly at a national level, running the risk of identifying the victim who is entitled to anonymity.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068217#Comment_120068217

The "young charismatic" thing doesn't wash well with having two pensioners as joint leader, though.

They need to stand aside and let one Gannon or Cairns take over (and try savr their seat from better vote management too), but they either won't do it, or will do it too late.

silverharp

Its nice to have the independent running interference for ya, I read that and thought he was pumping himself up on social media, it took reading the comments to find out he is being accused of grooming and sexual assault of a minor

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1610898898175811585

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068425#Comment_120068425

Take it up with our defamation laws. Any mainstream publication with his name attached holds back on the specific nature of the accusations.

Indo, RTE, Sunday World, even Gript aren't publishing the specifics - only that he has resigned on the basis of serious allegations.

There's two reasons for this:

1. The allegations relate to harm against a minor, and one ill-judged article could prejudice a case resulting its collapse at trial phase.

and

2. A successful defamation case could cost a media outlet dearly.

ElJaguar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067175#Comment_120067175

Linda Hayden was never an SD Councillor.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068529#Comment_120068529

Failed General Election candidate would be more accurate

kalych

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068131#Comment_120068131

Sure, but you seem to only be blaming the opposition for it not the parties in government. If everyone is doing this, it IS a general political system issue not merely an opposition party issue.

The independents are as guilty of it as the political parties with many having virtually no impact on policies and promising everything under the sun to their constituents. Then constituents feeling independents are great for getting the potholes filled while the healthcare system is crumbling around them.

Quitelife

Think the Social Democrats are a bit too mad and constantly outraged for the vast majority of the population to bother with

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068467#Comment_120068467

it was the particular headline, "fake Twitter account" is not the correct headline, its deliberately deceptive , serious allegations would be better

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068713#Comment_120068713

I've very clearly stated that all parties have been guilty of this - but they typically do it at times when they are in opposition.

Although thinking back on it - the Greens often are an exception to this one as they are usually very open about how they expect the costs of their proposals to be passed on (but it's nearly always being passed on to people well outside the Green's target voter base!).

Montage of Feck

There is a market for a sensible left wing party. I did have hope at the start the SD might be it.