Neil Francis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658210#Comment_117658210

I don't know where you are getting this from. It's blown up, of course, because Smith is mixed race and I'm not suggesting otherwise. I'm merely saying that Francis, in my opinion, was commenting purely on the vanity aspect, in ignorance of Smith's background.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658241#Comment_117658241

you said

""his long running joke about the vanity of backs (he made the same exact remarks about Henson for years) was hugely out of order and resulted in his sacking""

what actually got him sacked was the mention of skin colour "oompa loompa" and the fact that Smith is half Filipino (which the muppet Francis didn't know obviously)

as I said if he had made the same allegations of vanity on Smith's part but using something like shaving his legs and whatever else (but no mention of skin colour) Francis would not have been sacked.

so it's not Francis' long-running joke about the vanity of backs that got him sacked but the skin-colour / ethnicity aspect

you also know this of course.

Neil3030

For the benefit of anyone who (a) doesn't follow rugby that closely and (b) is sticking with the "Franno thought Smith wears fake tan" defense:

Marcus Smith arguably won the Premiership for Harlequins last season. He was the league's top points scorer. If you even had a passing interest in the game you'd probably know his background. If you're a full-time columnist and podcast contributor you have absolutely no excuse.

Former Former Former

What's not being talked about much is the fact that Mediahuis have big operations in Loompaland, that had to be a factor too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658257#Comment_117658257

You are picking an odd fight here because as best as I can tell we're in agreement. The paragraph right before the one you quoted:

"There is no woke mob here, the reaction of the player, the Lions and Harlequins was Justified and Francis deserved to be jettisoned for being completely amateur and embarrassing his employer."

As I said, the reaction of the player, his club and current team was justified. They don't know Francis or what he meant and on the face of it the remark could easily be taken as racist in origin.

The argument I'm making is that Francis most likely wasn't going for that angle at all, but due to his ignorance of the player in question his remarks left him open to that accusation, and as I said - that accusation was entirely justified.

When I referenced people wading in from the wider boards community, I'm referring to the posters crying on about cancel culture and woke mobs as if Francis didn't entirely bring this on himself. At the same time, looking at Francis's comments through a wider lens it's clear (at least to me) that he wasn't making a comment about race, the context of Smith's background made it about race and Francis should have been aware of that but I suspect he wasn't. In reality, if he was any kind of a grown up he wouldn't be commenting on peoples appearance full stop, and his insistence in doing so has cost him his job.

I'll leave it at that, enjoy the rest of the weekend.

Happydays2020

Francis is a shock jockey. His type of commentary has always sailed close to the edge and this time he went over it. Was bound to happen at some point.

He will not be missed by most rugby fans. He is not the first of this type of commentator to cross the line and he will not be the last.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657759#Comment_117657759

So if someone's from Cork they're automatically white? Go tell Zebo that, you big racist.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658289#Comment_117658289

Fin his comment Francis clearly knew none of this about Marcus Smith. No clue about his performances and achievements with Harlequins this season, nothing. I doubt he would have been able to pick him out of a line up with George Smith, Ben Smith and Conrad Smith.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658176#Comment_117658176

Would you prefer to debate in an echo chamber?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658482#Comment_117658482

I prefer to debate with grown ups.

Clegg

This is where the loonies go to these days. I suggest the "anti-woke" mob park themselves up yonder.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058196937/relaxation-of-restrictions-part-xii-read-op-for-mod-warnings#latest

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658176#Comment_117658176

I think this is spot on, Venjur.

I don't agree with the "woke mob" crowd. But I also don't agree with those calling him racist.

The thing that makes me think he almost certainly meant it as a "fake tan" type comment rather than a racist one is the "David Beckham haircut" comment directly preceding it.

All things considered, I also think it's justified that he lost his job over this (with his past indiscretions also a factor); the confluence of his lack of prep / incompetence and his "bit of a pr*ck" attitude landed him in it, so it's hard to have any sympathy.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658210#Comment_117658210

Can both things not be true? Yes he got sacked for making a comment about his skin color. The remark was racist by commenting on his skin color. Rather than that being ignorance about race, it was possibly more ignorance about his ethnic origin.

it’s safe to say Francis’s xenophobic comments in the past have leaned towards being racist. As they have always been louder about players of color. A bit like the disallowed try in the lions game. His sacking was the right decision but possibly for the wrong reason.

lawrencesummers

His apology was complete washout as well.

‘“I fully apologize for any offence taken” is a way of saying im not wrong in what i said you have just taken offense to it.

Squidgy Black

It's really not that hard to just refrain from blindly and ignorantly commenting on someone's skin colour. Especially when the target of your comments is a player of a sport you're supposed to be an analyst/journo of but you're too dense/obtuse to do any research on.

Also using the word "woke" as if it's a detrimental thing is hilarious and just shows how many people hoover up the American side of things. As if it's a negative to be more inclusive and aware that things need to change.

ButtersSuki

I wonder if Franno was ex-Munster would some of the people criticizing him here be as delighted to see the back of him as they apparently are? I suspect not.

I don’t believe Neil Francis is racist. I assume he looked at the player’s name and from a lack of knowledge of his actual ethnicity and I suspect very little actual watching the player play assumed he was the Flash Harry type. I think you really have to go out of your way to find offence here from a comment that IMO is clearly not racist.

re. the other indo ex-player pundits Fitzgerald is very, very, bad; but Alan Quinlan is absolutely atrocious.

Peregrine

He's either racist or he was too incompetent for the job he held. Or both.

Either way, he's gone.

Xander10

will this be the end of him boring us on, The Last Word?

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658821#Comment_117658821

Some people will try and wrangle the provincial nonsense into anything.

Franno is an ignorant homophobe who can now add casual racism to his repertoire, but most if all he was actually a terrible rugby pundit and is no loss to mainstream journalism

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658821#Comment_117658821

“I wonder if Franno was ex-Munster would some of the people criticizing him here be as delighted to see the back of him as they apparently are? I suspect not.”

Nah. Francis’ personality and choice of rhetoric alone make it easy for people to be happy he’s gone, independent of any provincialism.

Michael Zozimus Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658678#Comment_117658678

What is Francis’s and dare I say it all forwards’ purpose in trolling out this tired cliche that backs are vain and devoid of hard work or heroism? Surely they see with all the happening around the city and country with people dieing that those types of insults can wind the oafish accuser in a body bag. 

Perhaps he thinks it will elicit a response that is in line with his idea of effort and victory. Is victory at the price of your appearance real victory? You would agree it would be sacrificing something of yourself that can never be regained in order to win. Is that the type of sacrifice he requires - a Pyhrric victory where you lose? 

A type of fight to the death where skill doesn’t play a role. Perhaps it will unite those donkeys to a commonality and purpose with the accuser as its head. Good old blood and guts medieval dark age stuff. But it backfires inevitably. 

I’m sure we agree that Franno is a New England Patriots fan - Tom Brady being the very epitome of vanity and pretty boy softness. Does he not agree you can’t build a dynasty or empire on ugliness and domineering abuse and violence only? It is a misnomer and oxymoron. Having an oaf lead you can clear a path but it can’t keep you there. Brute force and ugliness is easily overturned and it makes Franno look stupid trotting out such tired cliches.

Richie_Rich89

Is it really homophobic to say that the percentage of gays in sport is likely significantly lower than in the general population? I think it's very likely that that is in fact true. Of course, there's a degree of stereotyping and generalisation inherent in making such a statement, but it makes sense to generalise if you are talking about a subject as a whole.

If anything, the issue that I'd take with Franno's comments about gays is that he only considered men's sport. I'd say the percentage of lesbians in women's sport is significantly higher than in the population as a whole.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117657847#Comment_117657847

You could argue the opposite, Franno was clearly going the route of "shock journo". Firing out comments which he knew would get the backs up of supporters in the provinces outside of Leinster. This drove clicks as people read the article to get outraged about it.

I was amazed that when this came to light the amount of people in SA, NZ, Aus etc etc all knew Franno. Knew about him and at some stage had written an article which they had got in a tizzy about. A lot of coverage across the World for a little old rugby writer in Ireland .

bennyl10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117659090#Comment_117659090

“Gay people don’t play sport because it’s too manly”

yes that’s certainly homophobic

and these most recent comments are racist.

he deserves to fall on his sword and there’s nothing provincial about it.

hes been getting away with this bollox for far too long.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117659090#Comment_117659090

Don't try and excuse homophobia Richie, it's not a good look for you

Bob Harris

The fast an inexorable journey towards completely sanitised expression devoid of real honest opinion continues.

I'll miss Frano as someone who says what he thinks. A few overly sensitive people get offended and it's more cancel culture bullshit.

I hope he'll start up his own blog or podcast and continue to call a spade a spade.

Former Former Former

To be honest, I thought what Francis said about homosexuals was a lot worse, but the climate has changed a lot in the interim.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117658289#Comment_117658289

So, You think he's dumb enough not to be aware of the (rightful) backlash against racism given recent events and the bending of the knee, but not stupid enough to realise a mixed race player with a very English sounding name was dark due to parentage?

Richie_Rich89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117659515#Comment_117659515

You don't think the percentage of male sportspeople who are gay might be less/significantly less than in the population as a whole?

swiwi_

Even if smith did have fake tan…should this be a selection criterion…?

that’s the first problem before we even get onto racism.