Interesting articles

roadmaster · 08-02-2022 6:13pm

In Option 2 they say more APCs, will they more Mowags or look to replace the fleet with the likes of the boxer?

sparky42 · 08-02-2022 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601383#Comment_118601383

Suppose it depends, I mean while the Mowags have finally got their MLU, the process for replacing them really should be starting relatively soon given the wear and lack of numbers, I mean would it make much sense in buying new variants now if the majority of the fleet will need replacing within the next 10-15 years leaving them orphans? Or would it make more sense to start the replacement process now and start building up the new fleet with new APCs and new variants? As to what might replace them, now that's a question...

Dohvolle · 08-02-2022 7:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601091#Comment_118601091

Yes, there are many questions from financial experts about the accuracy of our GDP, given how much weight is given to the multinationals who are based here for tax purposes (but don't pay any tax to us).

Dohvolle · 08-02-2022 7:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601401#Comment_118601401

With Mowag now part of GDELS, it makes sense to stay with the Piranha family, upgrade to the newer version, and everything that brings with it.

Ironically, the Pandur is also part of the GDELS product line now, and lost out to the Piranha during our competition, though there was not much between them.

Our problem is we never had enough armour, or MRAPS while doing most of our deployments in IED rich areas since the 70s.

roadmaster · 08-02-2022 7:43pm

According to the article below they are only talking about 30 extra apcs Surley they need more than that along with some thing with a turret like when they had the aml90 for protection

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/02/02/ireland-military-investment/

sparky42 · 08-02-2022 7:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601871#Comment_118601871

That I think is to replace the RG32s that have had appalling reliability rates apparently. That is a procurement that’s has already started rather than a new post Commission report.

Manic Moran · 08-02-2022 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598533#Comment_118598533

The closer countries to the East tend to be spending closer to the 2% mark. The 2%ers are Greece, US, Croatia, UK, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, Romania and France.

https://www.forces.net/news/world/nato-which-countries-pay-their-share-defence

sparky42 · 09-02-2022 1:32am

The latest from the IT on the Report:

After a year’s work and over a thousand interviews with soldiers, sailors, air crew and military experts, the Commission on the Defence Forces is to finally publish its report on Wednesday.

Even if only half of its recommendations are accepted by Government, the document is likely to form the basis of the most drastic overhaul of the Defence Forces since the foundation of the State.

The report notes there is a severe lack of public debate on defence and security matters in Ireland. One of its aims is to change this, by putting forward a range of recommendations of varying ambition which can be considered by the public and the Government. Those recommendations are detailed here.

Army

Despite making up the bulk of the Defence Forces, surprisingly little of the commission’s report is devoted to the Army. It said its establishment strength should be increased by 700 to just over 8,000 troops.

The Government also needs to ask itself tough questions about the ability to deploy the Army as peacekeepers in increasingly hostile environments, without significant improvements, the commission said.

Some on-island roles should be abolished as they could be carried out more efficiently by other agencies. These include prisoner escorts and the guarding of Portlaoise Prison, security duty at brigade HQs and escorting commercial explosive products.

This would allow the Army to focus on other roles such as bomb disposal, assisting in searches and responding to potential chemical attacks.

In terms of equipment, it should receive additional and modernised Armoured Personnel Carriers, anti-drone capabilities and upgraded air and coastal defence systems.

Naval Service

The report notes “striking” gaps in the State’s maritime security. It recommends the Naval Service should be renamed the Navy as part of awarding it the same status as the Army and its establishment strength should be almost doubled to 2,044.

Under the most ambitious recommendations (Level of Ambition 3) this would be a 12-ship navy with each ship having two separate crews to allow them more days at sea. Each ship should spend an absolute minimum of 220 days at sea.

At a minimum, the current fleet of nine ships should be able to go to sea. Currently, only five ships are operational.

Consideration should also be giving to using the Naval Service in more overseas operations, with the commission noting the success of the 2015 operation to save refugees in the Mediterranean.

There should also be more integration with the Irish Coast Guard and the Air Corps.

Air Corps

The Air Corps should be renamed the Air Force and be recognised as the primary aviation arm of the State. It should have a significant focus on research and development, including in the area of anti-drone technology. Its establishment strength should be increased by at least 350 to 1,200.

Under Level of Ambition 2 it should have at least two additional medium-lift helicopters. It should also have a primary radar system which would be capable of detecting aircraft flying with their transponders turned off, a practice Russia sometimes engages in off the west coast. It would also have a strategic lift capability– at least one long range aircraft – which would be capable of reaching areas in Africa and the Middle East where Irish peacekeepers are deployed.

Consideration should also be given to entering into an arrangement with other friendly countries to share long-range aircraft on an as-needed basis. Such arrangements already exist in Europe.

Under the most ambitious recommendations, the Defence Forces would acquire a squadron (between 12 and 24) of armed interceptor jets combined with trained pilots and support staff.

These aircraft should be capably of deploying overseas and of providing armed support to troops.

Cyber

A “joint cyberdefence command” should be established. It would be made up of a significantly enlarged signals Corps and complemented with civilian experts.

This agency would form its own command, with its own general, and would play a frontline role in both detecting and deterring cyberattacks, countering misinformation and protecting the integrity of Irish elections from online interference. It would also rely heavily on reservists with the requisite expertise.

Reserve

The commission’s assessment of current state of the Reserve Defence Forces is grim. It says it has been neglected to such an extent that it should either be regenerated or scrapped entirely.

The Army Reserve currently operates at about one third of its notional strength of 3,869 while the Naval Reserve has just over 100 sailors out of its establishment of 200.

The Reserve can be revitalised to support the permanent Defence Forces, the commission said, if a detailed regeneration plan is set out.

The Naval Reserve should increase to 500 and a new Air Force Reserve should be set up with an establishment force of 200.

Reserve officers should also be much more integrated in overall command structures with the Chief of Defence being supported by a senior reservist. A joint office of reserve affairs should also be established.

Army Ranger Wing

Ireland’s special forces unit, the Army Ranger Wing, should be renamed IRL-SOF. For its on-island role, more clarity is need on the use of the ARW to respond to domestic threats in circumstances where the Garda’s armed support units have been significantly upgraded in recent years.

However, it should still serve as the “tier one” response to armed threats in support of gardaí and it should continue to provide the Garda with support in its covert and counter-espionage activities.

Currently, the ARW is based solely in the Curragh. The commission recommends detachments be set up in Casement Aerodrome and Haulbowline Naval Base which are specifically trained in air and maritime operations respectively.

The Wing should also have its own dedicated helicopter component. Under Level of Ambition 2, it would also have a reserve element which would provide a surge capacity in the event of emergency and would be able to fill medical and cyber roles.

The Government must also consider if it wants to deploy the Wing on future peacekeeping missions which require specific special forces skills. The Wing’s only current overseas deployment is a reconnaissance mission in Mali, which is due to be taken up by conventional troops this year.

Military Intelligence

The commission said it expects the role of Military Intelligence, known as J2, to increase in the near future in response to hybrid espionage threats and an increasingly dangerous environment for peacekeepers.

It said clarification is needed of both the role and capabilities of J2 and required changes to national security legislation should be made as soon as possible to support it.

A Defence Forces Intelligence School should also be established to provide training in land, sea, cyber and air intelligence and as well linguistics. Certain training programmes should also be shared with the Garda.

Command and Control

This is where some of the most fundamental changes are being recommended. The role of Chief of Staff would be replaced by a Chief of Defence (CHOD). Each branch would be considered equal in stature and would have their own chiefs who will report directly to the CHOD.

The CHOD would have more autonomy than the current Chief of Staff role. There would also be more involvement of senior enlisted personnel in top level decision making, a practice which has become common in other militaries.

A more agile force structure should be created that is more regionally balanced, the commission said.

The military police should become its own independent service. It is currently embedded into the command structures of its local formations. It should receive improved analytic and forensic support and an oversight structure should be put in place to monitor investigations and prevent abuse of power.

A national defence academy and an apprentice school should be established to support developments in military training. There is also a need for an Office of Veterans Affairs to support former Defence Forces members and their families.

Culture

Even before the Women of Honour allegations of abuse in the Defence Forces surfaced last September, much of the commission’s work was focused on examining the military’s internal culture.

The commission recommends that the Defence Forces sets a target that at least 35 per cent of recruits are women. A full-time gender adviser, with a senior rank, should be appointed and any remaining barriers to career progression for women should be removed immediately.

Gender perspective should be a factor in all decision making, including in human resources and procurement while gender and diversity training should be made mandatory across all ranks.

The Defence Forces should communicate with underrepresented communities to identity barriers to recruitment and it should be made easier for non-national Defence Forces members to achieve Irish citizenship.

It should also be easier for enlisted personnel to become officers. Currently, only about 10 per cent of officers started off as enlisted recruits.

Grooming standards for men and women should be modernised, in line with other militaries. It is understood the commission had identified that a general ban on growing beards may be discouraging young men from joining.

Consideration should also be given to amending military training procedures and fitness regimes to make it easier for people with specialist skills to join.

Finally, enlisted personnel and officers should eat in the same mess. This occurs in most areas of the military, but a division still exists on naval ships.

Pay and conditions

Retention of skilled personnel is considered the most immediate crisis facing the Defence Forces, a matter which is closely tied to the current pay and conditions. There is little point is buying ships and planes if there is no one to man them.

The commission has recommended the immediate removal of the blanket exclusion of the Defence Forces from the working-time directive, subject to certain derogations. The directive sets out limits on the maximum number of hours an employee can work.

The commission also called for urgent reform of existing working arrangements and the introduction of family friendly policies.

Enlisted personnel should also have full access to private healthcare like their officer colleagues and military health services should be subject to Hiqa inspection.

The representative associations, Raco and PdForra, should be allowed affiliate with the Irish Congress on Trade Unions (Ictu) but should not be permitted to become full members.

The commission also made some limited recommendations on allowances, but the core issue of pay was considered outside its remit.

roadmaster · 09-02-2022 9:22am

So helicopters for

1. The Rangers

2. Troop Transport

3. Medical( which i presume is expanded AC112 with one for the north of the country and one for the south as the HSE wants.

4. Thats a big upscaling in helicopters

Also they are not really increasing the army which is unable to man the barracks they have , So does that mean closing barracks or will the Removal of ATCP duties such as guarding the dail , Enfield and prisions free up alot of manpower?

sparky42 · 09-02-2022 10:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604032#Comment_118604032

Ending the ATCP roles.

Signore Fancy Pants · 09-02-2022 10:56am

I think the idea of regional ARW sites makes sense, and is something that has been constantly mentioned in the past. In theory it would make sense to have the ARW air componant to be co-located in Bal and the maritime component in Haulbowline.

Ideally, the ARW would be based in Curragh, Baldonnel, Cork and Galway. Although, each regional base should have equal capabilites in each location. Leave the Curragh as a admin/training/briefing site.

The main reason for the lack of personnel (outside of the hardships of the course), is the location. Troops were unable/unwilling to relocate to live in the Curragh or within a reasonable distance.

This will hopefully negate this barrier and open it up to more personnel.

Signore Fancy Pants · 09-02-2022 11:03am

Being honest, recruitment and retention is the biggest organisational issue, kit and capabilities come second.

There is a high percentage of personnel who are pensionable, are leaving for the private sector. This is due to better wages and T&C's.

For new entrants, the pensions need to be brought back to a 21 year entitlement. There is zero motivation for a soldier to stay longer than 5-10 years.

If peacekeeping is reduced...there's very little incentive to join and do 5 years.

roadmaster · 14-02-2022 1:07pm

roadmaster · 14-02-2022 1:07pm

Manic Moran · 15-02-2022 11:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604391#Comment_118604391

Equipment can be considered a retention issue. Working with clapped out or notional equipment can be quite the morale killer, knowing how much the state cares about your function (and that you’ll be expected to risk your life with it). It also allows for better training, itself a morale boost.

Signore Fancy Pants · 16-02-2022 1:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637835#Comment_118637835

Thats true, but not widely applicable in our case.

I am not aware of anyone who has left the organisation, having done so due to our standard of kit.

At a stretch, a big stretch at that, some people have indeed left, citing the lack of DF accommodation. But that is heavily connected to the remuneration issue.

i.e, can't afford to rent/commute, and no option to live in barracks/base.

roadmaster · 19-02-2022 9:46am

So if they send out regular troops to Mali to replace the rangers are we going to be offically teaming up with the russians?

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-soldiers-mali-trouble-terrorist-jihad-un-eu-france-5687024-Feb2022/

roadmaster · 05-03-2022 9:23am

In the below article it states a number of ARW have joined the ERU. Would they have had to go through the normal garda route or would they have being direct entry to the ERU?

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-air-corps-army-ranger-wing-the-curragh-anti-terror-operation-5696629-Mar2022/

Dohvolle · 05-03-2022 11:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628667#Comment_118628667

Qualified Musicians get recruited directly into the garda band. They do a short course outlining their powers (they have the same powers as all other gardai) but their specialisation lies elsewhere.

That may answer your question.

roadmaster · 05-03-2022 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735726#Comment_118735726

I would also say its alot better T&Cs in AGS

Larbre34 · 06-03-2022 1:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735382#Comment_118735382

No, they have to go through all the training and selection. I know this from conversations with a family member in the SDU.

How else could Garda staff be sure that the person had the suitability to be a Garda in general in the first place?

A special operations soldier with a thousand yard stare and a very black and white attitude to the World might be ideal for that profession, but their ability to perform the nuanced daily role of an ordinary civic police force copper could be quite different. Not all former soldiers make the grade.

roadmaster · 06-03-2022 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739112#Comment_118739112

I would have taken a different view of that going on Dohvilles post.

Its looks like we maybe going for option 2.5 from the CoDF report going by coveneys interview

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2985f7c0-9cdb-11ec-a6a5-32c563cf34cb?shareToken=347ef8f780c5caed250d71db89d75386

Dohvolle · 06-03-2022 12:49pm

2.5 is a good start for this government.

By then the penny will drop that 3 is the minimum, in terms both of LOA and Defence spending in Billions. Just because people like Popup Paul and RBP of PBP (Putins Best Pals) are getting all the spots on political talk shows, does not reflect the feeling in Govt, and the general population, based on yesterdays demonstration, if anything.

The UK Chancellor announced this morning that Defence spending there has to be increased in their next budget. Availability of major warships has suddenly become a huge concern there, as they send lightly armed OPV (Lighter armed than ours) to escort Russian Missile cruisers through British Waters, while their frigates struggle to remain functioning as their first replacement is slowly being built in Scotland. Their Destroyer fleet (reduced from original plans) are all in various states of repair, none have a functioning powerplant..

Everything has changed.

Larbre34 · 06-03-2022 6:03pm

There is certainly a very careful political path to be treaded in adopting the Defence Forces enhancement programme. It probably is quietly acknowledged in Govt that LOA3 will be required, but given that we must walk before we can run (by that I mean our sheer lack of capacity to manage a dozen types of major improvements all at once), it is as well to formally adopt LOA2 and to morph into LOA3 over the subsequent years as capacities increase.

What cannot be risked is any severe policy disagreement within Government, that would risk the fall of that Government and the coming to power of Sinn Féin, who would jeopardise the adoption of any CoD recommendations at all.

Although, interestingly, a Sindo poll I read last night, shows the strongest party support for a total overhaul of our defence and neutrality policies comes from SF voters.

The overall poll itself, as I recall, showed 50% belief that our current neutrality policy is not fit for purpose, 40% said it is and 10% did not know.

It is perhaps telling of the radical times in which we live, that the Government is establishing a 'wartime' Committee of the Sec Gens of all the Govt Departments, to oversee the immediate and potential crisis point issues of energy security, food supply (grains and fertilisers), health and human services (recovery from pandemic and 80,000 refugees arriving and also immediate Defence matters.

Who could have believed two year ago that we would exist in such a posture now.

Notmything · 06-03-2022 6:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739646#Comment_118739646

When the report was first published there was a lot of discussion about why we need to spend money on defence. Since then things have shown why.

Yet we are still seeing the usual "neutrality" will protect us, "why should we bother", "the US/UK/EU/NATO" will protect us arguments being made.

There was a discussion on the radio this morning and they were saying that if the government thought they could water down the report then the current crisis in Europe will make that harder to do

Dohvolle · 06-03-2022 7:08pm

There has been a perfect storm of sorts, that is yet to hit.

The US harvest last year was very poor, about 20% of normal, due to a late winter, and heavy storms during harvest time flattening crops in the field. China has also announced that its winter wheat result is very poor. So we are already facing a worldwide wheat shortage. While most of US wheat still goes for food, the majority of its Maize goes to the bio-fuel industry. Many farms were lucky to produce enough for next years seed. So the Bio Energy will be grabbing all the cheap maize from the food chain.

You'll never guess what the Ukraine Steppe is used for? It was known as Russia's Bread Basket. Nothing will be planted there this year. (except sunflowers).

Fertiliser costs had already rocketed.

Now Hydrocarbons are seeing a huge increase in price too.

All of this will hit the cost of living of joe public, who may not have patience to listen to lectures about world economy as he struggles to feed his family and commute to work.