Interesting articles

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118555426#Comment_118555426

I seem to remember that after the WP that raised the suggestion of Primary Radar we had some interest from some of the companies I wonder if anyone kept their offers? Anyone have the list of that?

sparky42

A bit more on the Commissions Report, this time on Cyber:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/government-advised-to-set-up-military-cyber-command-1251099.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-to-be-advised-to-establish-military-cyber-command-1.4789385

Getting these people with those skillsets will be hard even with an increase in pay given how in demand that area is, but long overdue.

roadmaster

I dont have access to the full artcile for context but i am pretty sure McKee is still there!

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/michael-mcdowell-we-run-down-the-defence-forces-at-our-peril-1.4791015?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Fmichael-mcdowell-we-run-down-the-defence-forces-at-our-peril-1.4791015

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118570854#Comment_118570854

From his article:

If the Rathmines barracks is closed, the Defence Forces will have only one small space in the greater Dublin area, McKee Barracks, an elegant and ornamental Victorian barracks on Blackhorse Avenue now used mainly for Army administration and as the Dublin base of the Army’s equitation school. If one of the Army brigades is still to be stationed in Dublin, McKee Barracks will not suffice.

I have to say I can't remember this many articles/comments/PR regarding the state of the DF.

donvito99

Is it necessary to accommodate a brigade in the city centre?

The bulk of 7BN and the Eastern Brigade should be located at a new site, the design of which is not handicapped by a Victorian era barracks. Casement isn't a bad idea, and the AC could benefit from those facilities also. Not to mention that co-location is beneficial to operations.

The ceremonial, HQ, Ordnance Corps bomb squad and a small contingent (a company?) to satisfy Paul Kehoes terrorism concern are all that need to be at McKee (which has better access to the M50 and equal access to the city centre as Cathal Brugha). McKee could also continue to serve the RDF.

I saw that a figure of €100m, approximately, could be realised from the sale. Let's hope that the maximum is secured for the DF - defence trumps all, including the housing crisis.

Manic Moran

Can the RDF's Dublin population be supported by McKee alone?

There's an argument for keeping something reasonably centrally located on the South side, even if it's just the armory, a small parade square, and a few admin/office buildings while the rest of the Brugha property is sold off.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572014#Comment_118572014

Apart from the fact that the Dublin councils have collectively made it clear in the past that they want Casement for future development, and if we are moving towards more airframes up to and possibility including Fighters then we are likely talking about moving at least some degree of a second base will put other pressure on Casement. There's is also the past history of the failure of development of previous DF bases handed over, and the lack of money going back into the DF from those sales. Add in the historic buildings of the Barracks and I'm doubtful that the number of units that the Greens are claiming would happen.

If we are talking about substantial changes and increases in the DF then selling off barracks before we've even seen the Commissions report let alone debating it is cart before horse to put it mildly. Closing the Barracks won't materially affect the issues of Dublin's supply issues.

roadmaster

I dont think an hour drive makes much of a difference in a terriost attack a typical solider would be like 5th in line to respond id say. The order of responce would probably be like this id say

1st Poor garda in cotton shirt with a I40

2nd ARU or armed detective

3rd ERU

4th ARW ( F@uked at that stage unless they are in the city

5th Normal Soldier by that stage its all over

As for Paul Keohe he can take a run and jump. He alone did more damage to the military then anyone else

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571000#Comment_118571000

The Defence Forces PR machine has finally got its act to gether i would say there is at least 3/4 articles across the press daily in support of the defence forces lately

donvito99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572384#Comment_118572384

CB isn't closer to the M50 than Casement, or a new greenfield site. If you want people to respond quickly to incidents in the city centre, or the port (although M50 to port via the tunnel from Casement would not take an hour under blue light escort, even less if you run across the airfield and helicopter there), have a company in McKee. McKee is also a better city centre location for the bomb squad, IMO.

Granted there has been a lot of money thrown at CB, but there are such things as sunk costs. Starting afresh is easy (or easier) with the potential windfall from the sale.

The preferences of the personnel in CB at the moment would be interesting, given that retention is paramount. I'd wager the outskirts is as convenient, if not more convenient than a city centre location. Would they prefer modern facilities built for a 21st century army, or retrofitted stables and delipidated accommodation?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572598#Comment_118572598

Again how many times has the DF got the full value from barracks they have given up in the past, how much upgrades have been done to others to replace that capacity and how long have the sites been vacant for from the DF moving out? This will not change anything within Dublin regarding housing, but it's a good stunt for Ryan.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572596#Comment_118572596

If the Commissions report is coming out this week and what has been leaked is accurate then a) its timely support for its findings, and b) will be needed.

donvito99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572651#Comment_118572651

Possibly never, but I'd distinguish those cases from a high profile sale subject to media scrutiny. It can be done properly, easily.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572680#Comment_118572680

Sure it can...

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118597307#Comment_118597307

Looks like they are flagging up the reported "Option 2", judging from that report, wonder if Option 3 has been ruled out?

roadmaster

Coastguard to move to defence?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118597564#Comment_118597564

What would that mean for the SAR profile then?

sparky42

Some more from the IT:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/new-report-to-recommend-overhaul-of-defence-forces-command-structure-1.4796307

Manic Moran

Hmm.

"The creation of a new Senior enlisted advisor position who will sit on the “defence staff” alongside the new “Chief of Defence” is considered one of the more dynamic and achievable recommendations."

If that's called out as 'one of the more dynamic and achievable recommendations', that implies a distinct lack of optimism that anything involving actually spending any money is considered particularly achievable..

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118597576#Comment_118597576

The SAR tender is due back in a few weeks. I wonder will they put a hold on it.

jonnybigwallet

I suppose this increase (proposed) is a step in the right direction, if implemented. But 0.5% is still rather meagre, especially as they need to grant all ranks a decent pay rise and are looking to recruit approx 2500 extra personnel onto the payroll, as well as addressing the low budget for food and catering, as recently disclosed. So regretfully, I don't see many shiny new fighters or frigates appearing any time soon. 2% seems to be the current yardstick for European NATO member states, albeit only the UK seems to be spending in that ballpark.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598820#Comment_118598820

If its under DOD managment CHC will be in for a shock

sparky42

So the IT has it that Option 2 is to be recommended in the short term (fix retention, Primary radar, helicopter fleet issues) with a medium term target of debating moving to Option 3. Option 1 (stay as we are basically) is pretty much ruled out. Seems a lot more clear headed review of global issues/threats and Irelands place in it compared to the WPs:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/activities-of-russia-and-china-named-among-most-severe-threats-to-irish-security-1.4796956

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601062#Comment_118601062

1% is as close to Option 3 as its not really a difference, hell its more than what Option 3 calls for, though given our GDP figures and it's potential fluctuations I'm not sure setting it in stone is too smart.

roadmaster

In Option 2 they say more APCs, will they more Mowags or look to replace the fleet with the likes of the boxer?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601383#Comment_118601383

Suppose it depends, I mean while the Mowags have finally got their MLU, the process for replacing them really should be starting relatively soon given the wear and lack of numbers, I mean would it make much sense in buying new variants now if the majority of the fleet will need replacing within the next 10-15 years leaving them orphans? Or would it make more sense to start the replacement process now and start building up the new fleet with new APCs and new variants? As to what might replace them, now that's a question...

roadmaster

According to the article below they are only talking about 30 extra apcs Surley they need more than that along with some thing with a turret like when they had the aml90 for protection

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/02/02/ireland-military-investment/

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601871#Comment_118601871

That I think is to replace the RG32s that have had appalling reliability rates apparently. That is a procurement that’s has already started rather than a new post Commission report.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598533#Comment_118598533

The closer countries to the East tend to be spending closer to the 2% mark. The 2%ers are Greece, US, Croatia, UK, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, Romania and France.

https://www.forces.net/news/world/nato-which-countries-pay-their-share-defence

sparky42

The latest from the IT on the Report:

After a year’s work and over a thousand interviews with soldiers, sailors, air crew and military experts, the Commission on the Defence Forces is to finally publish its report on Wednesday.

Even if only half of its recommendations are accepted by Government, the document is likely to form the basis of the most drastic overhaul of the Defence Forces since the foundation of the State.

The report notes there is a severe lack of public debate on defence and security matters in Ireland. One of its aims is to change this, by putting forward a range of recommendations of varying ambition which can be considered by the public and the Government. Those recommendations are detailed here.

Army

Despite making up the bulk of the Defence Forces, surprisingly little of the commission’s report is devoted to the Army. It said its establishment strength should be increased by 700 to just over 8,000 troops.

The Government also needs to ask itself tough questions about the ability to deploy the Army as peacekeepers in increasingly hostile environments, without significant improvements, the commission said.

Some on-island roles should be abolished as they could be carried out more efficiently by other agencies. These include prisoner escorts and the guarding of Portlaoise Prison, security duty at brigade HQs and escorting commercial explosive products.

This would allow the Army to focus on other roles such as bomb disposal, assisting in searches and responding to potential chemical attacks.

In terms of equipment, it should receive additional and modernised Armoured Personnel Carriers, anti-drone capabilities and upgraded air and coastal defence systems.

Naval Service

The report notes “striking” gaps in the State’s maritime security. It recommends the Naval Service should be renamed the Navy as part of awarding it the same status as the Army and its establishment strength should be almost doubled to 2,044.

Under the most ambitious recommendations (Level of Ambition 3) this would be a 12-ship navy with each ship having two separate crews to allow them more days at sea. Each ship should spend an absolute minimum of 220 days at sea.

At a minimum, the current fleet of nine ships should be able to go to sea. Currently, only five ships are operational.

Consideration should also be giving to using the Naval Service in more overseas operations, with the commission noting the success of the 2015 operation to save refugees in the Mediterranean.

There should also be more integration with the Irish Coast Guard and the Air Corps.

Air Corps

The Air Corps should be renamed the Air Force and be recognised as the primary aviation arm of the State. It should have a significant focus on research and development, including in the area of anti-drone technology. Its establishment strength should be increased by at least 350 to 1,200.

Under Level of Ambition 2 it should have at least two additional medium-lift helicopters. It should also have a primary radar system which would be capable of detecting aircraft flying with their transponders turned off, a practice Russia sometimes engages in off the west coast. It would also have a strategic lift capability– at least one long range aircraft – which would be capable of reaching areas in Africa and the Middle East where Irish peacekeepers are deployed.

Consideration should also be given to entering into an arrangement with other friendly countries to share long-range aircraft on an as-needed basis. Such arrangements already exist in Europe.

Under the most ambitious recommendations, the Defence Forces would acquire a squadron (between 12 and 24) of armed interceptor jets combined with trained pilots and support staff.

These aircraft should be capably of deploying overseas and of providing armed support to troops.

Cyber

A “joint cyberdefence command” should be established. It would be made up of a significantly enlarged signals Corps and complemented with civilian experts.

This agency would form its own command, with its own general, and would play a frontline role in both detecting and deterring cyberattacks, countering misinformation and protecting the integrity of Irish elections from online interference. It would also rely heavily on reservists with the requisite expertise.

Reserve

The commission’s assessment of current state of the Reserve Defence Forces is grim. It says it has been neglected to such an extent that it should either be regenerated or scrapped entirely.

The Army Reserve currently operates at about one third of its notional strength of 3,869 while the Naval Reserve has just over 100 sailors out of its establishment of 200.

The Reserve can be revitalised to support the permanent Defence Forces, the commission said, if a detailed regeneration plan is set out.

The Naval Reserve should increase to 500 and a new Air Force Reserve should be set up with an establishment force of 200.

Reserve officers should also be much more integrated in overall command structures with the Chief of Defence being supported by a senior reservist. A joint office of reserve affairs should also be established.

Army Ranger Wing

Ireland’s special forces unit, the Army Ranger Wing, should be renamed IRL-SOF. For its on-island role, more clarity is need on the use of the ARW to respond to domestic threats in circumstances where the Garda’s armed support units have been significantly upgraded in recent years.

However, it should still serve as the “tier one” response to armed threats in support of gardaí and it should continue to provide the Garda with support in its covert and counter-espionage activities.

Currently, the ARW is based solely in the Curragh. The commission recommends detachments be set up in Casement Aerodrome and Haulbowline Naval Base which are specifically trained in air and maritime operations respectively.

The Wing should also have its own dedicated helicopter component. Under Level of Ambition 2, it would also have a reserve element which would provide a surge capacity in the event of emergency and would be able to fill medical and cyber roles.

The Government must also consider if it wants to deploy the Wing on future peacekeeping missions which require specific special forces skills. The Wing’s only current overseas deployment is a reconnaissance mission in Mali, which is due to be taken up by conventional troops this year.

Military Intelligence

The commission said it expects the role of Military Intelligence, known as J2, to increase in the near future in response to hybrid espionage threats and an increasingly dangerous environment for peacekeepers.

It said clarification is needed of both the role and capabilities of J2 and required changes to national security legislation should be made as soon as possible to support it.

A Defence Forces Intelligence School should also be established to provide training in land, sea, cyber and air intelligence and as well linguistics. Certain training programmes should also be shared with the Garda.

Command and Control

This is where some of the most fundamental changes are being recommended. The role of Chief of Staff would be replaced by a Chief of Defence (CHOD). Each branch would be considered equal in stature and would have their own chiefs who will report directly to the CHOD.

The CHOD would have more autonomy than the current Chief of Staff role. There would also be more involvement of senior enlisted personnel in top level decision making, a practice which has become common in other militaries.

A more agile force structure should be created that is more regionally balanced, the commission said.

The military police should become its own independent service. It is currently embedded into the command structures of its local formations. It should receive improved analytic and forensic support and an oversight structure should be put in place to monitor investigations and prevent abuse of power.

A national defence academy and an apprentice school should be established to support developments in military training. There is also a need for an Office of Veterans Affairs to support former Defence Forces members and their families.

Culture

Even before the Women of Honour allegations of abuse in the Defence Forces surfaced last September, much of the commission’s work was focused on examining the military’s internal culture.

The commission recommends that the Defence Forces sets a target that at least 35 per cent of recruits are women. A full-time gender adviser, with a senior rank, should be appointed and any remaining barriers to career progression for women should be removed immediately.

Gender perspective should be a factor in all decision making, including in human resources and procurement while gender and diversity training should be made mandatory across all ranks.

The Defence Forces should communicate with underrepresented communities to identity barriers to recruitment and it should be made easier for non-national Defence Forces members to achieve Irish citizenship.

It should also be easier for enlisted personnel to become officers. Currently, only about 10 per cent of officers started off as enlisted recruits.

Grooming standards for men and women should be modernised, in line with other militaries. It is understood the commission had identified that a general ban on growing beards may be discouraging young men from joining.

Consideration should also be given to amending military training procedures and fitness regimes to make it easier for people with specialist skills to join.

Finally, enlisted personnel and officers should eat in the same mess. This occurs in most areas of the military, but a division still exists on naval ships.

Pay and conditions

Retention of skilled personnel is considered the most immediate crisis facing the Defence Forces, a matter which is closely tied to the current pay and conditions. There is little point is buying ships and planes if there is no one to man them.

The commission has recommended the immediate removal of the blanket exclusion of the Defence Forces from the working-time directive, subject to certain derogations. The directive sets out limits on the maximum number of hours an employee can work.

The commission also called for urgent reform of existing working arrangements and the introduction of family friendly policies.

Enlisted personnel should also have full access to private healthcare like their officer colleagues and military health services should be subject to Hiqa inspection.

The representative associations, Raco and PdForra, should be allowed affiliate with the Irish Congress on Trade Unions (Ictu) but should not be permitted to become full members.

The commission also made some limited recommendations on allowances, but the core issue of pay was considered outside its remit.

roadmaster

So helicopters for

1. The Rangers

2. Troop Transport

3. Medical( which i presume is expanded AC112 with one for the north of the country and one for the south as the HSE wants.

4. Thats a big upscaling in helicopters

Also they are not really increasing the army which is unable to man the barracks they have , So does that mean closing barracks or will the Removal of ATCP duties such as guarding the dail , Enfield and prisions free up alot of manpower?