Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248503#Comment_118248503

The equating of severe myocarditis with mild myocarditis, which most people never even realise they had, is something to behold. And even so the rates have been demonstrated to be 6 times higher following Covid in young males, the group at highest risk. Will be duly noted at ignored as, in at least one case for certain, the posters involved will slink of to childrenshealthdefence.eu or similar for their next set of misinformation

grumpyperson

I just don't get it. Traveling by car is statistically much more dangerous for children than covid19 and now we're insisting they wear a mask in primary school even though the air they breath in will still have covid19 in it if someone in the class has the disease.

It seems to me that some people are determined to remove joy from Irish society at this point.

Most people including myself are vaccinated. Is this really happening? Why is it happening?

BuildTheWall

Was watching Prime Time tonight and had to turn it off after some hack said the government would be giving us a “Christmas present” of a booster shot.

Some days I think I’m after waking up in an episode of the twilight zone.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248206#Comment_118248206

Apparently Ryanair have been checking antigen test results all over the world... Where did we find this eejit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248758#Comment_118248758

The real question is why would anyone watch prime time? About any subject?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248585#Comment_118248585

Idiots in government destroying young people's lives? Nothing new as far as I can see

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248793#Comment_118248793

Touche

However I was more referring to the cheerleaders for this stuff

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248791#Comment_118248791

I like seeing politicians make fools of themselves, Prime Time is one of the few programs they'll appear on

Fishdoodle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247960#Comment_118247960

He does seem pretty credible - I had a look at his open letter to the WHO where he lays out his theories and wish for debate. “In this agonizing leter I put all of my reputaton and credibility at stake.” . It would seem he went on ‘thehighwire’ show since he wasn’t getting a response … even from respected colleagues who he says privately agreed with him but were afraid to deviate from the general narrative for fear of losing their careers. Like a last cry out to be listened to.

Anyway, that letter can be read on

https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/

You’d have to feel for the guy for putting his reputation on the line all the same …just to open debate.

freshpopcorn

Masks in primary school will go like this in my opinion.

Some parents won't send there kid to school and if the school provides it they'll be letters written to the Board of Management.

Honestly I don't understand the legalities of it. School rules can be funny and what parents can get away with they get a solicitor involved might surprise some.

Then they'll be kids who'll never wear it correctly.

They'll be a few goody goody kids constantly putting up there hand to say Alice hasn't her mask on correctly.

Then in more rougher schools(can't think of a better word) mask use will be a disaster all together.

Some kids will wear them correctly tough.

Some parents will rattle on how good Johnny is with wearing it when Johnny never wears it correctly.

I do think they'll be similar to adults really taken very serious by some and just thrown on by a lot.

I don't know what difference they'll make in my honest opinion especially when they'll be all over one another during lunch time.

I do think with all this and them being told not to do Panto's, etc MM better say they've a week off homework or something.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248893#Comment_118248893

Don't forget the bullying.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248893#Comment_118248893

What if they held pantos in schools? Loophole?

freshpopcorn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248925#Comment_118248925

For wearing them or not wearing them?

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247896#Comment_118247896

"I disgree. I think following restrictions helps to "bring on restrictions" - politically, not medically."

Of course you do, but then you think COVID is part of some great far-reaching conspiracy that, curiously, you decline to elaborate on when requested.

Sample of restrictions currently in place in Serbia:

Masks mandatory in all public places. Fines for non-compliance.

Gyms etc numbers limited

COVID passes mandatory for entry to catering establishments after 8pm.

Indoor and outdoor gatherings limited to max 500 people

Additional restriction may apply in different localities.

Restrictions currently in place in Georgia:

Sample of restrictions currently in place in Georgia:

Face masks mandatory on public transport in public places indoors

Vaccine passport to be in place for 1st December. To be required for entry to catering and entertainment establishments, gyms etc.

Cinema capacity increase to 50% from 1st December

Facemasks mandatory indoors and outdoors.

Indoor and outdoor nightclubs closed.

In short, not very different from what wee have here, and in some ways more restrictive. If the restrictions are de jure but not de facto, then it's not that different from Ireland either, where people often seem to view their own medical ignorance as superior to expert knowledge.

ceadaoin.

My child has been wearing a mask to school here since the start of the last school year in 2020. Over time, compliance and enforcement has slipped and most of time the masks are below their nose or pulled down. They can take them off outside at least but I don't think any parents or kids have had any major issues with it, just tired of it at this stage. I'm under no illusions that a flimsy cloth or paper mask is doing anything though, it's all theatre and bringing it in almost 2 years into this thing seems pointless. Why now?

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248990#Comment_118248990

it's all theatre and bringing it in almost 2 years into this thing seems pointless. Why now?

Possibly because the incidence rate in 0-12 year olds is the highest it's been. They account for 25% of the cases now. It's also winter, so all respiratory illnesses are going about. Maybe if it helps reduce that impact, kids won't end up catching them and having to take time off school while awaiting a test due to symptoms.

Maybe because the powers that be decided to stop contact tracing in schools and now cases in kids have exploded and quite possibly they will remain high going into Christmas where mixing will be at the highest.

Timmy O Toole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249052#Comment_118249052

But the virus isn't spreading in schools, the reason the incidence rate in that age group is so high is because of after school activities such as playdates, so why mask in classrooms?

Multipass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248585#Comment_118248585

You’re not alone in feeling this way.

the kelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249052#Comment_118249052

This is the issue though. Its theatre and theres no humility to go with it which as far as i can see is peoples biggest issue at the moment with this.

I mean only last night the current health minister is still banging the "transmission isnt really happening in schools" line. This is whats p1ssing people off more than anything. I was talking to parents last night who were saying they dont like these measures being taken but are just fed up being fed the same old "schools are safe" bull and taken for fools.

I men there are many other things they could be doing but to do these would be akin to admitting they were wrong in saying "schools are safe"

Literally they would rather mask up children and let them suffer rather than take other measures which would be akin to admitting they were wrong to say schools are safe.

I think this measure may be the one where even the most loyal defenders are just saying "here hold on", you even see it on here.

M_Murphy57

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247805#Comment_118247805

Don't play down the seriousness of myocarditis either.

"Most people (60-70 percent) with acute cardiomyopathy from myocarditis get better. About 10-15 percent develops irreversible chronic disease due to scars in the heart created by the infection, Dr. Cooper says. These patients are treated with standard heart failure therapies, but 20 percent die during the decade following infection due to heart failure."

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-finds-myocarditis-caused-by-infection-on-rise-globally/

theseare not risks ill be taking personally thanks with my kids when there is no need.

Whatever about promoting the vaccine (I'm vaccinated) but making out myocarditis is "no big deal" is gaslighting.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247593#Comment_118247593

There has been a sense of disease control above all else over these last few weeks. The CMO message has variously been encouraging but far more commonly accusatory, a warning or just sheer alarm. One can accept that they are just doing their job but they do seem to be looking at the wrong information entirely. For them it's still about the daily cases and whatever the models tell them about hospitalizations that can come from that, none of which seems accurate.

This most recent advice seems to have come from a group of people who have never met a child in their lives, despite many of them being parents, relatives and grandparents and the wishy washy proposals from government show that they at least made an effort to engage with the public. 

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249264#Comment_118249264

The most common cause of myocarditis is an infection ― usually viral 

Will of course be ignored because it doesnt suit the fear mongerering to acknowledge that it is far more frequent with Covid than with the vaccine.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/

Most people (60-70 percent) with acute cardiomyopathy from myocarditis get better.

Equating instances of acute cardiomyopathy resulting for some cases of myocarditis with all cases following vaccine is outright dishonesty

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110737

A total of 76% of cases of myocarditis were described as mild and 22% as intermediate

No doubt the brains trust will tell us why childrensefense.eu or other scum purveying misinformation are right and the New England Journal of Medicine is wrong

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2251

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249264#Comment_118249264

What you and your kids do is your business, trying to spread fearmongering information is everybody's business. Did your kids get the childhood vaccines? Guess what, there's a risk of myocarditis there as well and again, most don't know they ever had it. Every cold you gave to your kids, you were giving your kids a risk of myocarditis.

What would be interesting is where you're getting your information from, is it general reading or specific locations?

And just from the anti-vaxx playbook, they don't target the older generation (99%+ vaccinated) but the younger and susceptible, they go after:

• fertility (caught a few celebs out as well)
• pregnant women (because who doesn't like to add extra worry there)
• Children (by whipping up hysteria about "protecting the children")

PicardWithHair

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248925#Comment_118248925

And of course this bullying will be fine !!

Totally acceptable for the kids even the teachers to gang up on an unmasked child.

Disgusting

CruelSummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248736#Comment_118248736

Is the FDA document laying out all the facts ‘misinformation’? That’s a new one. Funny how when you see it laid out in black and white in the document itself - everything I’ve posted is a fact. Many of your and Astro’s posts are full of misinformation.

Prof Paul Moynagh clearly said on Prime Time last night we should be donating our vaccines to vulnerable groups in poorer countries, not vaccinating our children. Are you going to claim this is misinformation too?

The FACTS are heart inflammation is absolutely not a ‘mild’ condition. Yourself and @astrofool are both guilty of spreading misinformation in this regard. The fact you seem ok to allow this to happen to children who will be unaffected by Covid is baffling. As Covid is in high prevalence in children now, I’d like to see your source for here in Ireland as to how many children are currently in hospital with myocarditis due to Covid infection.

CruelSummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249512#Comment_118249512

Where is your source for the rate of myocarditis from other vaccines versus Covid vaccines in 5-11? You’ve just proclaimed a lot of ‘facts’ in this post with no sources whatsoever. And continue to play down myocarditis with no source. More misinformation.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249609#Comment_118249609

The FDA document has been linked to many times and the video of the approval session posted as well, all the facts are there for everyone to see as well as balanced reading of those facts and links and evidence showing the balanced reading of those facts not your, frankly hysterical, overreaction to everything spurred on by anti-vax misinformation sites.

But look, we'll ask the real question that needs answered here.

Which group are you going to pearl clutch on behalf of next? Where can you ramp up the hysterics for maximum effect? It's going to be fascinating to find out!

CruelSummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249633#Comment_118249633

Again, I'm waiting for your sources for your claims? Remind me why anyone should anyone take anything you say as gospel?

grumpyperson

I see clothe mask wearing as pointless and damaging to childrens emotional development.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.669432/full

Dr Osterholm came out in support of N95 masks and HEPA filters.

https://kstp.com/coronavirus/-michael-osterholm-schools-should-deploy-air-filters-quality-masking-to-mitigate-spread-of-covid-19/6221353/

He has previously said clothes masks are useless in a school class setting. There will be no benefit to kids wearing clothe masks except if someone is actively coughing.

It's a joke gone wrong. Please sign the petition against it.

https://www.change.org/p/dr-tony-holohan-no-to-covid19-masks-for-children-in-irish-primary-school/

FWIW, I posted this before and consider it balanced and reasonable but the link was deleted by the moderators here. I don't like where we're going with this as a country.....

CruelSummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249311#Comment_118249311

Did you read your links? There is no information yet on the rate of myocarditis yet in ages 5-11. It’s in the FDA approval letter on page 6. You’re just assuming the rates will be the same.

https://www.fda.gov/media/151710/download

This quote is directly from your second link:

“The estimated incidence of myocarditis was 2.13 cases per 100,000 persons; the highest incidence was among male patients between the ages of 16 and 29 years.”

Yet it doesn’t give the rate among the younger males aged 16-29 years and just gives the overall rate.

You've claimed repeatedly that the rates are known after vaccination of younger children, they’re not.