Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings

MilkyToast · 19-11-2021 02:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190553#Comment_118190553

Infection-acquired (natural) immunity is much more robust than the current available vaccines. Likely because when you are infected, your body is exposed to the whole virus and therefore to all the proteins that it comprises. You make antibodies and T- and B-cell memory to multiple proteins, and that is much more likely to be (according to theory and to data that exists on reinfection) a neutralising immunity—and to be more "variant-proof". Neutralising immunity is the only way you tackle an airborne virus with an incubation period of up to 20 days (average 5-6), and the current, single-protein-targeting vaccines aren't cutting it.

My feeling is that the Valneva vaccines in the pipeline (whole virus vaccines using more established tech) will make a big difference for that reason, and so will a nasal vaccine if they manage to get one out, because that will reduce viral load in the bits that matter for transmission (lungs and nose).

Antiviral drugs are also coming down the pipeline, and the EMA recommended authorisation of two different monoclonal antibody treatments a week ago, which I believe are currently being reviewed by the government.

So I think there's reason to be optimistic, but obviously it's rampant at the moment so people who are vulnerable should be taking personal responsibility for their own health. And the government should be giving people better advice. It seems like people are still thinking that washing their hands and wearing masks will keep them safe, when they'd be better off opening a couple of windows for a minute every half hour and avoiding stagnant indoor air.

Red Silurian · 19-11-2021 02:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191262#Comment_118191262

If they try to lock us down there will be mad protests... I don't see it happening for that reason alone... In saying that this govt isn't known for it's brains or forward thinking, is it?

19-11-2021 02:27PM

There are worse things than people dying of a disease and we seem to be walking into them..

MilkyToast · 19-11-2021 02:31PM

I'm not going into lockdown. Just not doing it. Sorrynotsorry.

Speak Now · 19-11-2021 02:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190271#Comment_118190271

Ralphy if your nose starts bleeding you're either picking it to much or not enough!

Classic Chief Wiggum line 😁

walus · 19-11-2021 02:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191317#Comment_118191317

There were people who said the very same thing before you and guess what happened? Nothing. They served us the longest lockdown that lasted well into the summer this year and people did nothing about it. Ah well, sure what can we do, right? It is the virus, Delta variant and that is why all these restrictions. That is the attitude of a vast majority. I cannot see how that was to change now. They will lockdown again. That is the only thing left that is yet to be officially disproved as ineffective, inefficient and simply wrong to do.

Burty330 · 19-11-2021 02:54PM

So when are the restrictions being lifted. Why is there no clarity on where we are heading? Is because they plan to cancel Christmas and bring in another lockdown? Nothing those useless savages can do would surprise me anymore.

SupplyandDemandZone · 19-11-2021 02:56PM

Remember when we where meant to be living with covid 🤣

Ah good times...

ArthurDayne · 19-11-2021 02:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187331#Comment_118187331

It’s also worth pointing out though that the U.K. has a far higher population density than we do, has innumerably greater ties and transport links to the rest of the world, and has a greater array of ethnicities — some of which have been disproportionately affected by Covid (the BAME communities most particularly). They literally have over twice the population of Ireland squeezed into the Greater London area. I just don’t think a straight comparison of their ICU capacity versus ours is the basis for an argument that we cannot look to emulate the policy they are following (with the full appreciation that they may yet start to see a greater spike over Christmas, as I imagine every European country will).

But I also need to stress that I’m not even arguing that we should have pushed to emulate the UK right now, but rather stuck with what we had from 22 October — because the current new measures only lead us on an inexorable path to more measures, until we inevitably move towards heavy restrictions, then we all clap and applaud the stabilisation of numbers, then the measures eventually break and we see a spike again. Unless we lock down until February with exemplary levels of compliance, the Christmas spike is inevitable. And all we will have to show for it is picking the can up again in February (and it will still be cold then) and enduring the wave — at which point we will see whether this government will finally drop the moral absolutism and do what must be done, or they simply continue the ethically bulletproof but reality-devoid policy of the abundance of caution.

But look, I appreciate your views on this and we share common ground in believing that the government was too cautious this year. But now we need mainstream politicians to start admitting this (because right now the unfortunate fact is that the fringe right eccentric politicians are the only ones voicing it publicly) and to accept that at some point the public health advice of NPHET (which naturally and understandably will always be cautious) needs to be counterbalanced with realistic wider public policy — so that at the very least we don’t come to the 2022 wave and run straight back for the untouchable moral sanctity of unsustainable caution.

Red Silurian · 19-11-2021 03:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191339#Comment_118191339

+1

They've had their lockdown from me... 3 of them in fact

walus · 19-11-2021 03:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191521#Comment_118191521

because the death from covid has become an unacceptable way to leave this world, much more so than any other ways (cancer etc.) living with covid is not an option. Living with covid means prioritising other more important diseases and patients who suffer from them. But no covid is the only fcuking thing that matters in this country. That is not living with covid, that is being paralysed by inability to deal with it.

NIMAN · 19-11-2021 03:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191566#Comment_118191566

You don't really have any say in that unfortunately.

What are you going to do if there is nothing open?

PTH2009 · 19-11-2021 03:35PM

NPHETs new recommendations should be out next Thursday

We all know where its heading. Drink up lads this weekend could be the last

growleaves · 19-11-2021 03:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191840#Comment_118191840

I'm going to break into Coppers with some friends. You're welcome to join us.

PTH2009 · 19-11-2021 03:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191887#Comment_118191887

Yep that was a good laugh

ceadaoin. · 19-11-2021 03:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190553#Comment_118190553

Difference is, the vaccine only produces immunity to one specific part of the virus (spike protein) whereas infection is a more "complete" type of immunity. This is well known at this stage

bokale · 19-11-2021 03:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191848#Comment_118191848

My motto every weekend, even before covid. There's no certainties in this world PTH2009!

Sobit1964 · 19-11-2021 03:54PM

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1461641578771099652

Mandatory jabs - another conspiracy theory coming true.

Elmer Blooker · 19-11-2021 03:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191980#Comment_118191980

Bill Gates says stop eating meat and hey presto Claire Byrne is eating a mealworm burger on the telly! 😉

CalamariFritti · 19-11-2021 04:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189808#Comment_118189808

When will the penny drop that this virus will not go away not by debate or any other means?

MilkyToast · 19-11-2021 04:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118192009#Comment_118192009

How are they planning to enforce mandatory jabs? Hold people down and stick it in 'em?

Some people would welcome that here I think, for children, too. And I wonder how many would reflect on the fact that they have been so effortlessly "nudged" along to accepting the forced injecting of their fellow citizens?

19-11-2021 04:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118192131#Comment_118192131

It really is a lot scarier than the virus at this stage..

ArthurDayne · 19-11-2021 04:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191236#Comment_118191236

Yes very good article — and the hiding of our leaders behind advisory bodies has been a theme of this pandemic for a long, long time.

I do think though (and personally I would really like to see this argument becoming more normalised as I think it’s still being forced to the fringes by the media and the political establishment) that we need to see a lot more being made of the other great failure of this government in 2021 — the failure to open up earlier when the chance was there to do it and to allow the inevitable circulation of the virus through the young population before the winter respiratory illness season.

We need to start normalising the argument that reopening measures are going to be just as much a part of transitioning Covid to a more manageable and tolerable endemic virus as other things like testing and boosters.

walus · 19-11-2021 04:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118192009#Comment_118192009

Yup.

Whoever uses ‘conspiracy theory’ phrase to discredit and belittle people thoughts as disparaging and ‘crazy’ should be very careful. So many of them came true already.

PicardWithHair · 19-11-2021 04:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191236#Comment_118191236

The IT : "The vaccines aren't working as well as we thought - we need a new way out of this .... MORE BOOSTERS!!!"

Floppybits · 19-11-2021 04:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118192131#Comment_118192131

You can bet there would be no shortage of people putting their names down to be the ones to go out and hold people down to jab them. One thing about this pandemic it really has shown just how nasty folks are below the surface. It is scary to think there is a cohort of people out there ready to sign away any freedoms (temporary or otherwise) because a, b or c said so and then those same people try to ridicule others by calling them Conspiracy theorists or anti vaxxers or shinners or whatever other thing they can think off just because those people may question the decisions made.

bokale · 19-11-2021 05:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191980#Comment_118191980

One thing covid has shown me is the absolute crap irish people watch and listen to.

Hard to believe Pat Kenny is still relevant and actually tuned in to.

Why on earth would you subject yourself to it. With the access we have to anything in the world at the tip of our fingers. Do you know what, I'll put Pat Kenny on and get mad at it for a bit. Haha