Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024221#Comment_118024221

If you wanted to go there, as a young person and with no known underlying conditions, it would be almost, but not quite, a certainty that if CR had been vaccinated that he wouldn't have missed the match. You're arguing about raind being ambiguous when raind has acknowledged multiple times that there is no absolutes by making your own ambiguous statement and then getting huffy about it.

But now at least it is all unambiguous for all.

(I say this in a thread where just a few posts another person is claiming vaccines don't work, but might be hiding behind sarcasm, or is serious, given the posting history, I'm leaning to the latter but a lot of the anti-vax nutters post misinformation and then hide behind ambiguity or just flat out lie and run away).

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118023992#Comment_118023992

But you won't happily go take a vaccine so that is not going to happen.

It is because of anti vaxxers like you that we will likely have no restrictions removed on the 22nd.

Richard Hillman

The longer this goes on, by pure work of numbers the most vulnerable will come in contact with the Virus. And those who are not really vulnerable now, they may become vulnerable over the next 6month to a year. Especially with how cancer treatments have been delayed. The vulnerable category is being replenished, probably quicker than the deaths.

If the NPHET Government won't lift restrictions now, we are stuck until March/April. By then if we have case numbers like last year (maybe more) 400-500 a day, if we are lucky. Between 10,000-15000 a month. Keep that going until the Summer, it adds up to near 100,000 cases leading up until next September. The vulnerable category being constantly replenished.

This stuff isn't ending if we continue the attitude towards it. It's war-time. During war you have to accept that people will die, usually the weakest of them all. The war has been lost. We cannot save them. They can be helped with vaccines but the war has been lost.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024379#Comment_118024379

LOL

If ever there was a post that highlights the inability to see the wider picture aroud covid issues, including strategies to manage covid, this is the one. You have paid a massive cost for your vaccine, in every way, and the vaccination campaign, and the problem is it is not achieving what it was hoped to achieve.

Speaking personally, I am pro-vaccination. However there needs to be an acceptance that vaccinations have not provided the route back to what would be considered a normal way of life in a democracy, and may never do so. This is disappointing but it is also the reality (sidepoint - it follows that demonising the unvaccinated is unfair, and pointless if not counter-productive. It is impossible to avoid the conclusion that the attempt to target this small group is simply designed to distract from our inadequate health services).

The vaccinations are not magic. They are hugely beneficial and offer a significant but by definition limited degree of protection. We are not going to be able to rely on "vaccinating our way out of this", given the nature of the virus. We are going to have to shoulder more risk, individually and collectively, of becoming infected and sick, and possibly dying, if we want to change the circumstances in which we live.

My perspective is greatly informed by the fact that this infection is not life-threatening for the vast, vast majority of people who get infected. That has to be a central consideration in assessing the proportionality of how we deal with it, especially now with approaching 2 years experience of attempting to control/contain/restrict/lockdown. There is no logic in how we are applying ourselves to this problem, to the detriment of so many other societally damaging illnesses and other consequences, in which I include the economy, because all of what we need as a society has to be paid for somehow.

(sidepoint - I am aware that this is a contagious disease in contrast to many other causes of sickness and death. It is still the case that for the vast, vast majority of people who contract an infection, it will not be life-threatening, even more so with the limited protection which vaccinations give)

Time to get on with it. We have some protection from a good vaccination programme. We have an awareness/understanding of the causes of infection. We have the right to make personal choices regarding the risks which we are willing to take. We need and are entitled to a functional society and this is not what we have at the moment.

Finally, I'm just going to say it, everyone dies of something. You think it won't be you or yours, but it will be one day. There is no way to prevent that, and there is no way to reduce the risk of Covid or anything else to zero or close to zero. Life just does not work that way.

edit: someone said earlier (to another poster) "it's because of anti-vaxxers like you that we can't open up" or something. That's the greatest load of - with all due respect - rubbish. It's not the unvaccinated holding you back. It's yourself and those like you who - alarmingly - can't see what is right in front of your nose.

Quags

Putting aside the whole Anti Vaxxers are killing us bullshit, as of yesterday we had basically 88% of Ireland doubled dosed and the talk is that the remaining restrictions cant happen because of high numbers and those pesky anti vaxxers, at what stage do the public just decide that enough is enough

namloc1980

Glynn wants everyone WFH until the spring. It's like a never ending nightmare - last week the talk was about going full steam ahead for final reopening and that we were close to suppressing the virus, and now it's basically a 180 degree turn on that.

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024591#Comment_118024591

Going that logic it's hard to see NPHET agreeing to allow full capacity gatherings and nightclubs until then

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024591#Comment_118024591

I'm not sure what the big song and dance is about over his comments. It's as if some people don't actually understand the change that's supposed to take place next week.

On Friday the legal requirement to have a WFH option is what is supposed to change. The advice doesn't change.

So we're supposed to go from legal footing to advice to employers, "After 22 October 2021, the requirement to work from home will be removed. Workers can return to physical attendance in the workplace on a phased and cautious basis."

Currently it's still the legal wording that you WFH where possible, next week that's supposed to turn to advice, so essentially what he said today.

It's just bollocks at this stage, enough is enough, the more people run off and get tested the more this goes on, the more the media can keep the narrative going. The more the Government can use it as a distraction from more serious issues.

Climate change and Corona, just let it go ffs.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024633#Comment_118024633

Or you know just let people and businesses get on with things themselves without Glynn and others giving dictats from the top. You'd swear we didn't have well over 90% of adults vaccinated. Hopefully businesses will ignore these directives from Glynn et al.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024536#Comment_118024536

We are not in the midst of the April 2020 lockdown, most of society is back up and running (albeit some in limited form). Most countries are lifting restrictions, some more cautiously than others. Even with vaccinations, no one wants a repeat of Winter 2020, so the caution is understandable.

Also your "I'm alright Jack" approach is your opinion, personally I am still taking many precautions as I have many older (and vaccinated) relatives that I do not want to take any risks with.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024660#Comment_118024660

If the legal requirement is lifted and it turns to advice then businesses are free to do as they please.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024666#Comment_118024666

Of course my opinion is my opinion.

It's not an "I'm alright Jack" opinion though. Nothing is alright.

Your stated unwillingness to take any risks shows a misunderstanding of what the risks of your approach are versus mine.

Ps my approach leaves you free to do what you like but enforcing yours on everyone else...

Parachutes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024505#Comment_118024505

Absolutely infantile opinion.

You can see why the majority of Irish people are so easy to string along when you read rubbish like this.

Deeper Blue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118023979#Comment_118023979

I wish people would stop posting infantile nonsense like this. It's like something you'd say to a two year old child.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024672#Comment_118024672

That's a big "if" at the moment given the noises coming out of NPHET members and government. But "if" it is then hopefully businesses and people will ignore Glynn et al. Just like the many pubs and restaurants who've given up the vaccine papers checks. Enough is enough.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024655#Comment_118024655

Honestly though, even if no one was tested, and they came out saying we have thousands of cases, it wouldn't matter a bit. No one in power would question the numbers, and we'd all be expected to simply accept the words of our betters, and said numbers would be used to further the loss of our rights. Once again, if we had some good journalists in this country, the house of cards would quickly fall.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024505#Comment_118024505

This has been discussed before. Kindly refrain from calling me an anti-vaxxer.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024686#Comment_118024686

It’s the truth though - sometimes basic, fundamental facts about covid have to be repeated.

MOH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024633#Comment_118024633

That's exactly the kind of thing the Irish human rights watchdog was highly critical of the government for, they've been doing it for 18 months now.

Deliberately blurring the lines between what's "advice" and what's a legal requirement, in order to sow confusion and manipulate people into behaving how they want them to behave without having any legislation underpinning it

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024699#Comment_118024699

Attempts to anthropomorphise Covid are really silly. Saying Covid doesn't respect things is like Holohan and his "Covid loves alcohol" nonsense.

Nyero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024532#Comment_118024532

The elephant in the room is trying to justify it all by saying its keeping the weakest of society safe. Its merely delaying the inevitable.

The UK has been building herd immunity for months, yes they are worse than us hospital wise but we could be looking at a huge wave in the next couple of months.

That is all because NPHET and the GOVT have failed badly by not reopening much sooner last summer.

Parachutes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024713#Comment_118024713

What’s the point of trying to reason? They believe covid as a bogeyman and are terrified.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024722#Comment_118024722

Failing to open during the summer was a massive error (not the first by NPHET and this government). Shocking judgment altogether.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024701#Comment_118024701

Pleasingly, Drew Harris has now said an Garda Siochana will not be taking steps to enforce the vaccine passport nonsense, so hopefully that will be the end of that, whether the legal provision is changed or not.

Ten thumbs up for a bit of cop on (pun intended)

Nyero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024729#Comment_118024729

All we had to do was be a month behind the UK with it, if things started going bad there we had time.

A massive advantage lost.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024729#Comment_118024729

Why do you think it was an error and not deliberate?

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024840#Comment_118024840

Obviously it was a deliberate choice but it was a brutally bad choice. Whether that was just sheer incompetence or something more malicious who knows.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024824#Comment_118024824

The Gardai never could check for cert compliance

Can you link where Drew Harris has now said this ?

The Health and Safety Authority and HSE have been designated in the legislation as having a role in assessing compliance

A statement released by the Gardai in August

"The Health Act 1947 (Sections 31AB and 31AD) (COVID-19) (Operation of Certain Indoor Premises) Regulations 2021, SI 385/2021, came into operation on the 26th July 2021. Members of An Garda Síochána are not ‘compliance officer’ in respect of these regulations."

So you say hopefully that will be the end of that... the end of what ? They couldn't check anything in the first place surrounding covid passes. There isn't or never was a legal provision

Nyero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024862#Comment_118024862

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