Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings

is_that_so · 05-10-2021 03:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117979871#Comment_117979871

Anything restriction that is not a shop or transport will go.

05-10-2021 04:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117978513#Comment_117978513

What has been sorely lacking is debate. How can Dr Anders Tegnell and Dr Tony Fauci be following the same science if one says masks are unnecessary and do almost nothing and the other says double masking is a good idea? Or are they following different science?

The two most puzzling things for me are the lack of debate and the insistence of many doctors and scientists to sow panic and fear. That I will never understand. Dr Jay Bhattacharya said he was taught at medical school that doctors are not supposed to sow panic. And yet every day there's some scientist or doctor somewhere talking about permanent restrictions, a permanent pandemic (Bloomberg is particularly bad for such articles) or masks on children forever. It's just mind boggling.

Penfailed · 05-10-2021 04:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980090#Comment_117980090

The only person I have ever heard mention permanent restrictions or mask wearing is you. I haven't been panicking at all throughout.

Quags · 05-10-2021 04:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117979871#Comment_117979871

I hope so. I go to a gym in a hotel and they keep saying the hotel manager wont allow the jacuzzi/sauna/steam room to be opened due to space issues and the need to clean after each use. Which makes ye think how often did they clean it before all of this

charlie14 · 05-10-2021 04:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980090#Comment_117980090

Tegnell and Bhattacharya not being in favour of face masks would make me more inclined to believe that face masks do prevent the spread of the virus.

Tegnell was chasing naturally acquired immunity and Bhattacharya was one of the people involved in the Great Barrington Declaration which advocated the same.

darconio · 05-10-2021 07:38PM

When was the time to initiate a 6 weeks lockdown to save xmas, or to suddenly shutdown the country on the 24th because of the surge, it was decided within a blink of an eye. Now that everything was stagnant for the past 4 weeks we still need to wait an additional 3 because it's "the science" and we need a period of observation. The case will inevitably raise after the 22nd, what are they going to do then? Will they be ready to accept overwhelmed hospitals like it was for the past X years? Ah well, let's wait for the next (crucial) 17 days and we shall see I suppose

Nyero · 05-10-2021 08:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117979194#Comment_117979194

It's a bit ridulous saying people asked for certainly and then you think kicking the can down the road is an acceptable form of certainty.

BTW dates have been pulled forward and backwards before, it's not like any date was set in stone.

thebronze14 · 05-10-2021 08:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117979871#Comment_117979871

The one in mine has been opened since the gym last reopened.

bear1 · 05-10-2021 08:27PM

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40714109.html

I really hope this doesn't end up being a constant hanging over people's heads.

PTH2009 · 05-10-2021 09:09PM

This time last year we were on the eve of Lockdown 2

All this 'Lockdown can't be ruled out' is pure arse covering by our betters who will lose no pay and there lifestyle if it comes it or not

05-10-2021 09:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117980301#Comment_117980301

So does that mean that they have all of a sudden ceased to know anything about medicine? This is what I don't understand. Dr Bhattacharya has been at Stanford for around 35 years. Not just any university. Surely he knows what he's talking about. Dr Tegnell is the State Epidemiologist of Sweden. Presumably that means he's considered to be the best epidemiologist in Sweden. I just don't understand how he can consider masks to be more or less useless while his equivalent in the Philippines and Peru, for example, advocate for masks + face shield everywhere and double masking everywhere respectively. That's why I say a debate is needed.

Dr Martin Kulldorff of Harvard University, again not just any old university, says that people who had and recovered from covid have longer lasting immunity than the vaccinated: https://mobile.twitter.com/MartinKulldorff/status/1440649075469295616

So why is natural immunity being ignored around the world if that's case? Those are questions that are never answered, or even asked.

05-10-2021 09:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117981028#Comment_117981028

I predict that he'll be back in January looking for another extension for climate change. I have long believed that this has had nothing to do with public health. Just like the 'irreversible' return to normal in England that was quickly followed a few weeks later by 'we'll do everything we can to prevent another lockdown'.

If almost 100% vaccination isn't enough for them to stop restricting people's lives then nothing will be.

Penfailed · 05-10-2021 09:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117981300#Comment_117981300

What kind of lockdown are you expecting to prevent climate change?

Avon8 · 05-10-2021 10:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974555#Comment_117974555

Its a real eye opener how many crackpots on that side of the argument happen to be from Mayo. Perhaps it's all coincidence. Or perhaps its lack of education. Who knows

charlie14 · 05-10-2021 11:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117981563#Comment_117981563

It could even possibly be because you may not have paid attention in geography class.

charlie14 · 06-10-2021 12:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117981285#Comment_117981285

Where is immunity through infection being ignored ? Here, and as far as I can see, in every other country it has the same status as being fully vaccinated.

Tegnell`s predecessor as Sweden`s state epidemiologist, Annika Linde 2005 - 2013, said chasing natural herd immunity was a dream with little basis in reality. She was also considered the best epidemiologist in Sweden until she retired, so one of them got it wrong. From Sweden`s own antibody test results it does not look like it was Linde.

Tegnell and Bhattacharya were both advocates of natural herd immunity. Tegnell was eventually force to drop the idea, and Bhattacharya I haven`t heard anything from since the first vaccination or even earlier. I imagine even he realised seeing how effective the vaccines are against serious injury and death, what the carnage pursuing his favoured natural herd immunity would have caused. That and the fact that anywhere it was attempted, or believed to have been achieved, showed how correct Linde`s assessment was.

If you are chasing natural herd immunity then the theory on how fast you get there depends on how fast as many as possible become infected. If face masks are preventing that happening then I can see why those favouring the theory would be opposed.

dominatinMC · 06-10-2021 12:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117981300#Comment_117981300

Christ almighty, you have to be the single most pessimistic contributor on here. Constantly looking for the negatives, seeking out selective articles and quotes to suit your narrative, it must be exhausting being such a cynic. Here's an idea, how about you stop trawling the internet for confirmation bias pieces and go out for a few pints/dinner/cinema/concert/club and you might actually see that things have improved dramatically in the last 3-4 months and are continuing to do so. The 22nd is not far away and we will be almost restriction free. Yes, I agree that we masks should not be mandated going forward, so lets hope the conversation turns to those after the 22nd, but in the meantime people would be better off enjoying the freedom we have instead of obsessing over the ones we don't.

Parachutes · 06-10-2021 12:47AM

I’m not a violent person, but if they attempted a ‘climate lockdown’ I may reconsider my position…

Penfailed · 06-10-2021 06:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117981852#Comment_117981852

They won't. Don't worry about it.

pjohnson · 06-10-2021 06:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117981852#Comment_117981852

Gortanna's fantasy wont happen.

is_that_so · 06-10-2021 07:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117981028#Comment_117981028

It's more like a better to have it available, as an abundance of caution. He's just repeating what the CMO said. However, one would seriously question why an approach that may deliver almost 95% vaccinated would really need to resort to such tactics again.

prunudo · 06-10-2021 07:48AM

In the same way that people used to claim covid restrictions such as 2nd lockdowns, vaccine passes etc wouldn't happen, it would very naive to think that people won't be effected by climate change restrictions in the future. You can call posters pessimistic all you like, but if the last 18moths has shown anything, it's that nothing can be ruled out.

titan18 · 06-10-2021 07:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117982058#Comment_117982058

Tbf, that same argument will still be valid on January 9th when it's coming up to being out of date again. At some point, you have to pull the plug on it and there's going to be no material difference in vaccinations between now and January 9th.

is_that_so · 06-10-2021 07:54AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117982064#Comment_117982064

Oh, I think this is a box ticking exercise and all Donnelly knows how to do is channel the CMO. It just suggests they want to be prepared.

titan18 · 06-10-2021 08:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117982074#Comment_117982074

Ya, I get that, but to me, that's going down a rabbit hole of it always being extended cos we always need to be prepared. Kind of agree with SF's health guy here in that they can come in and agree new regulations quick enough and get things sorted if we're in a situation where we need them. Shouldn't just be blankly extending them just incase imo cos that's always an argument to roll them on.

is_that_so · 06-10-2021 08:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117982101#Comment_117982101

Well, we have them so why go through the dance again for new ones? They should be parked from 22 October anyway. Tend to ignore what SF rep has to say as most of it is rubbish. It's also ironic given how much harder they and others in Opposition wanted to push on restrictions.