Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings

JRant · 11-08-2021 11:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736786#Comment_117736786

I don't disagree with what you're saying but there's no way any organisation can put themselves in a position whereby they are personally on the hook for running an event.

seamus · 11-08-2021 11:09AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736804#Comment_117736804

No, it's the double-standard here. "We want our country wide open with all restrictions dropped, like other countries".

When asked for an example, they always provide examples of countries which still have restrictions in place. That particular poster is one of the most vocal anti-cert protesters. They'd be foaming at the mouth if Ireland opened vaccinated-only indoor gigs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736819#Comment_117736819

Chicago and New York were the two examples of states doing full capacity gigs given by the poster.

What countries are doing full capacity indoor gigs with no restrictions in place?

namloc1980 · 11-08-2021 11:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736853#Comment_117736853

I know but Ireland is just an outlier on this like many other things. Think outdoors was the manta this summer but the reality is "no you can't do that, and you definitely can't do that, and don't even dream of organising a run - that's not allowed at all."

We're in the position now where fully vaccinated people must be masked up indoors unless they are sitting down eating or drinking. They must also practice full social distancing and we're talking about fully vaccinated people here! People in Croke Park being badgered to wear masks in an enormous outdoor stadium (thankfully most ignored that nonsense). The fear of living is in every facet of Irish life at the moment.

namloc1980 · 11-08-2021 11:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736861#Comment_117736861

You said "any venue running full capacity indoor gigs have a vaccinated-only entrance policy". I simply asked what countries are doing that? Bit strange to turn that around and try to ignore it and ask a different question - I never made an statement about other countries with no restrictions. So can you show what countries are doing that (vaccine only access to gigs)?

seamus · 11-08-2021 11:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736931#Comment_117736931

Chicago and New York. The two states that were mentioned in the post I was responding to.

Red Silurian · 11-08-2021 11:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736744#Comment_117736744

You're asking the wrong people, these are figures that public health officials should be able to think up and our leaders should be on the telly telling us. Personally if everybody in an enclosed space is vaccinated the risk is minimal regardless of social distancing or ventilation

11-08-2021 11:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736533#Comment_117736533

How come the Belfast marathon is going ahead and the Berlin one etc, what is it about the twenty six counties that makes a running event outdoors unsafe but runners can go across the border to the North.

How can we be confident that Third Level students will get back to college in any meaningful way if its considered too scary a decision to allow an outdoor event to proceed.

When is Government interference in every aspect of our lives going to end.

I wish Micheal Martin would just retire now, what is the point of him staying on until he has to hand over to Leo, we need someone with the courage to move things forward, Our young people, many who have had covid already are queuing up to take a vaccine so they can get their lives back.

Adults need to start shouting now and the Marathon organisers need to announce that event is going ahead and apply for whatever licences are needed.

If refused go to the Courts and point to the Belfast marathon going ahead, point to GAA stadiums, do something, anything rather than accept this nonsense.

Deeper Blue · 11-08-2021 11:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736638#Comment_117736638

The UK are doing it, they're the most relevant to us. I couldn't care less who else is doing it.

The point is if we have everyone vaccinated in September why can't we have indoor events with full capacity? Or at the very least outdoor ones. It makes zero sense. What's the end game here exactly?

Red Silurian · 11-08-2021 11:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736942#Comment_117736942

Will we have 100% vaccination in September though? I'd like to think so but some there will always be the anti-vax nutjobs

namloc1980 · 11-08-2021 11:26AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736936#Comment_117736936

What gigs were those? Lollapollooza in Chicgo allowed entry to vaccinated as well as those unvaccinated with a negative PCR in the last 72 hours

Bring your vaccine card or proof of negative COVID-19 test within the last 72 hours

https://www.lollapalooza.com/safety#covid-guidance

Deeper Blue · 11-08-2021 11:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736946#Comment_117736946

I reckon we'll be as close to 100% as we're going to get by then. I can't see many getting it in say November if they aren't getting it now. The anti-vaxx clowns aren't going to change their minds at this stage I assume.

11-08-2021 11:28AM

We dont need 100 per cent vaccination, we have never had this for any vaccinations.

It will be as good as its going to get once twelve year olds are done unless people now want five year olds to be vacced too.

This will be never ending and if young people see normal youthful activities in neighbouring countries resuming then they will leave, its that simple.

Captain_Crash · 11-08-2021 11:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736861#Comment_117736861

I don’t think it’s a double standard to want to be in the same position restrictionwise as countries with similar vaccination rates who culturally we have a lot in common with.

If we want to speak of other countries, NZ played Australia in Auckland on Saturday morning to a full Eden Park….. had a look on google this morning, NZ hasn’t sank to the bottom of the ocean!

Events can be held here with minimal issue if we want but the powers that be decline to allow it!

namloc1980 · 11-08-2021 11:32AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736946#Comment_117736946

We will never have 100% vaccination. There are people who can't get vaccinated due to medical reasons. DO you think they are nut jobs?

If the aim is 100% vaccination before we can get back to our lives, then we might as well give up now as that is an impossible goal to set and utterly pointless. We're already at c.80% and heading for 90% and the returns are diminishing. Vaccinating a load of 18 and 19 years olds has little or no impact on the overall case numbers and especially has very little impact on hospitalisations or deaths. Attitudes like yours that we need 100% vaccination is as useless as the anti-vax nutjobs you are talking about. Extreme views either way are of zero benefit in the overall conversation.

Red Silurian · 11-08-2021 11:33AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736963#Comment_117736963

You'd be surprised, there were people in their 50s at the walk in cente in Limerick last weekend getting jabbed...

seamus · 11-08-2021 11:33AM

@taxiperson wrote:

How come the Belfast marathon is going ahead and the Berlin one etc, what is it about the twenty six counties that makes a running event outdoors safer.

I agree in principle that there's a lot of burying of heads in the sand, and a refusal to engage on a lot of specific issues from our government. At the very least, we should by now have some general indications for September rather than a commitment to provide a plan for September at the end of August (WTF).

The point mainly is that organisers can't do anything about it. They can't commit a pile of time and money to an event that may not get licences. What is happening in other jurisdictions is irrelevant from a legal point of view. The fact that Belfast is going ahead doesn't prove that Belfast is "safe" and Dublin is not. It could equally prove that Belfast doesn't care about infections and Dublin does.

As a rule, any appeal that "The UK is doing it" to me tells us that not doing it is probably the right call. The UK has made a complete balls of every decision since David Cameron was re-elected in 2015, providing a blueprint for the rest of us on what NOT to do.

is_that_so · 11-08-2021 11:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736975#Comment_117736975

There is supposedly a plan coming in the next 2-3 weeks. Outdoor events aside, most countries have restrictions on everything else.

Red Silurian · 11-08-2021 11:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736985#Comment_117736985

Just on the UK making a balls of every decision since Cameron

Cameron called for the Brexit vote, the vaccine rollout in the UK is far superior and was much faster than most of the world, not just Ireland... Also, and this is surprising, case numbers are significantly down in recent weeks

stephenjmcd · 11-08-2021 11:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736941#Comment_117736941

Look I'm not all that bothered getting into tangents with you again (been there done that and didn't get very far) regarding MM and his retirement, young people and them leaving the country etc. Bar the first paragraph you've gone off on a ramble that I didn't post about.

Now back to the marathon (and EP to an extension)

I've explained how licensing works in Ireland, it's outdated but it's the way it is until it's reformed.

They could have continued to plan for the event and if they applied for a license today it would be refused, the same as EP, if things change come the end of the month they could apply for one in September and it could be approved. They didn't want to continue planning with the uncertainty on a license.

As for go to to the courts, go to them for what ?? If a license isn't approved then it isn't approved, you can't just say oh look at them, not how it works. If you apply while the caps are there then that's it simple as.

A simple solution for the time being would have been to say yeah plan for it and say oh its a trial event until September when they could say yeah lads fire away you can have your capacity now and it's not a trial event anymore. It's an arseways way of doing it but it could have been done.

As I've said before, I think it should have gone ahead, personally I wouldn't have made the decision so early, but I'm not the one who has to deal with the financial implications etc so it's easy for me to say yeah go ahead when I'm not involved in it, if your actually involved then it's easy to have a different view. It's a tough decision and the organisers made what they felt was the best decision for them based on the inability to be able to plan due to 1) Licence issues based on current public health advice & 2) Nobody will insure you at the moment

Red Silurian · 11-08-2021 11:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736991#Comment_117736991

Yes - there is a plan for September onwards being made, presumably now, to be announced by the end of the month

JRant · 11-08-2021 11:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736942#Comment_117736942

Made MM needs to get back on the phone to Sturgeon for an update on their reopening.

timmyntc · 11-08-2021 11:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736985#Comment_117736985

What exactly have the UK done wrong other than existing (and therefore drawing your ire)?

They vaccinated those at risk, and reopened - and keep relaxing restrictions based on an acceptable level of virus spread. What is bad about that?

And better yet, what would be the alternative? Indefinite restrictions?

namloc1980 · 11-08-2021 11:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737019#Comment_117737019

Waste of time. The red mist seems to descend when the UK is mentioned and they get dismissed as eejits. Of course their approach is closer to what we should be doing. Get the vulnerable vaccinated and then start lifting restrictions while continuing to roll out the vaccine side by side. In Ireland we know better of course and we want everyone vaccinated before we come up with a roadmap for a plan at the end of August. Cowardly approach in Ireland and a complete inability to assess risk objectively.

seamus · 11-08-2021 11:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737006#Comment_117737006

I guess there's a debate to had over the UK vaccination programme. Whether it was a case of managing to not make things worse, or actively making them better. On a national level perhaps there's a good benefit, but at what cost. The EU could have doubled the speed of its rollout by copying the UK and engaging in vaccine hoarding; to the detriment of the UK. The UK could have opted for a shared vaccination approach with the EU and tighter restrictions at home. Which to me, is a better all-round solution; economic and social cohesion and minimised deaths. That's a different thread though.

@timmyntc wrote:

What exactly have the UK done wrong other than existing

As one example? The UK is an island nation that managed to have one of the worst cases/deaths per capita in the world from Covid. They have always had the option to exercise completely control over their borders but chose not to. They could have been New Zealand with a fast vaccine rollout.

The HorsesMouth · 11-08-2021 12:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736718#Comment_117736718

Well they are well able to do it in Scotland, NI, UK, USA etc.

timmyntc · 11-08-2021 12:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737065#Comment_117737065

Not this tripe again - New Zealand and Australia are totally different to the UK and Ireland.

Not all islands are the same - our proximity to Europe (and UKs) means that supply lines for things like food and other essential goods are all heavily dependent on transiting through EU (or sourcing from EU directly).

It would be chaos with food and medicine shortages were the UK (or Ireland) to try and shut the borders like that. Not to mention the diplomatic ramifications. No doubt if the UK had followed such an approach people such as yourself would be lambasting them for an insular selfish approach.

Red Silurian · 11-08-2021 12:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737065#Comment_117737065

The UK introduced a 12 week gap between vaccine doses, this was backed up by the public health experts as a way of speeding up first doses and giving said first doses longer to work before being boosted. Until the arrival of the delta (another thing they got wrong by not adding India to their MHQ list) their case numbers were dropping like flies and hospitals got far quieter so arguably it worked.. One of the few things they got right during this pandemic if you ask me