Kilkenny GAA Thread

greenspurs

Great to see so many new names commenting in here ...

New blood , new views....

Village87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658513#Comment_123658513

New blood but a lot of the views the same.

Realt Dearg Sec

To me, you can say other players have been tried and not been good enough, but there's two problems with that. One is that often lads are tried for a match, or less then a match, in the league and then dropped, often entirely off the panel, so the chances to learn anything are very slim in those circumstances, and will tend to widen the gap from established players rather than narrow it. The other is that it needs complacency in the starters when they feel safe. I've been on many club teams where that is a huge problem, and to me what makes a county team different is that there should never be anyone comfortable in their place on the team. Apart from anyone else, it's clear as day that a lot of players on the fringe of the panel have gotten pissed off with knowing they are not going to get a real shot and have moved on.

To me Lyng is a really good manager, in a lot of ways. But we just need someone with fresh eyes coming in now who players will feel they have a chance to show what they're made of. Someone with a clearer vision of what they want the team to be and how they want them playing. And ok maybe he does have the best fifteen on the field, there or thereabouts, but I wouldn't mind taking a gamble and putting some faith in a few lads even if it doesn't work out. I just don't see lyng taking charge of a rebuild at this point when he's repeatedly shown he has no faith in the younger players in the county.

Incidentally that's the same reason I'm not sure about sheff, who did the same thing in Galway as lyng did in kilkenny: played conservatively, stick with an aging team, and now look at the state they're in. That's not all his fault, but they are not the model to build on. Look at what happened in tipp when they put some faith in young lads, you can't tell me there's nobody of that age in kilkenny who might surprise us if given their shot

nippy corner foward

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658439#Comment_123658439

To be fair now derek has being very conservative from day one. Imo theres more jordon molloy and stephen donnelly around the county. Management and coaches come in and put their stamp on the team..play to a gameplan that get the best out of the team. How many new players were tried corner back this year? None it was tommy,butler and Murphy .Blanch and carey got a few matches each at 6 during the league before richie came back before the limerick match.eddie donnelly arguably one of the best 6 in county but its dereks fault he wouldnt commit. He did make little of paul cody dropping him before the semi last year.

Did derek surround himself with the best people? Imo theres plenty of lads with a much better cv. Puckouts have being dreadful for 3 years. Why is michael rice goalkeeping coach when he never played in goal in his life? Kk have being crying out for a modern coach. Has the reluctance to get ìn a top class s&c coach held kk back?Are the county board working tirelessly behind the scenes to get the right people involved at the 3 grades?

If runours are true and huw goes traveling after the club campaign kk will be in dire straits. Scruff has apparently played his last match for kk and he will also be dissapointed with some of his shot stopping. He has really struggled to adapt to the modern game and is letting in goals he would of previously saved

I thimk most of us are looking for freshness but going up the last 3 or 4 years with the same players making the same mistakes is very poor. The county board like the incoming management need to grow a pair of balls and make the obvious changes.

Krazy gang

Looking at Sunday's result logically you'd think we would have beaten cork. But would kk have played a sweeper or something left field to try frustrate or upset cork?

Very doubtful I'd say. We would have tried to take cork man for man and outhurl them. The sweeper seemed to totally flummox cork and they were unable to adapt in game.

Village87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123659166#Comment_123659166

They should call Riche Reid "Moses" when he comes across good opposition. "The defence opens, creating a dry path for opposition forwards to pass"

Formosa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658909#Comment_123658909

Shefflin was in it in Galway for the Mercs and perks, he'd have had zero knowledge of strong contenders on the club scene - granted he took on the like of Joyce for local knowledge, but he had no interest in taking apart a team for a pile of newcomers when in all likelihood they'd have been at nothing for a few years - he wanted to take the easy option, keep his reputation intact and boost the bank balance.

If he was at the helm with Kilkenny you'd hope his motivations would be different - not that I'm advocating for him getting it at all.

Nickindublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123659514#Comment_123659514

If money is what he is after he can forget it in KK. There isnt much. Is he a better option than Lyng. That i dont know. Talking a good game is easy but delivering is not so easy. Galway got worse every year under him. I would expect to hear either this week or next re the manager. I am hearing nothing bar whats being said here.

Midir

I'd say Derek will give it one more year. Nothing to substantiate this, just my belief.

Nickindublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123659664#Comment_123659664

Will the CB give him a new deal is the question. I would think if he wants to stay they will keep him on.

NCNewb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658186#Comment_123658186

Or Thomastown to be fair. Did he have 2 years with them?

Nickindublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123659838#Comment_123659838

1 year and lost the intermediate final i think.

Village87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123659888#Comment_123659888

I think Glenmore beat them in the Semi final

droppingball

He did a reasonable job with Thomastown and changed the culture in the club. There was few gaps in the team when they lost a few finals and semis. The u21 winning team had Diarmuid Galway, 2 Connelans, Peter Macdonald ,Zach, Eddie Donnelly and Jack Holden which brought things to another level. And Noel Doherty and Sean Kelly brought things on again.

Henry was announced as Galway manager the week of that Glenmore semi final which made a mess of things but reality was they weren't ready to go up. You could argue the balance of team wasn't right and Henry might have gotten more out of them but I wouldn't say he did a bad job. The original plan i believe was for two years but it was only for one year in the end, he brought a fair amount of hype when he was involved naturally enough.

Feels like the Kilkenny fans need a character at the helm to inspire things and that we can get behind. An appointment would bring excitement but he would need a serious coaching ticket to convince me.

My guess will be Lyng will stay on but he has already changed the backroom team so it will have to be a fresh playing personnel that he goes after. We haven't seen any evidence that he will try anything. The players need to be worrying about even making a panel next year but most of them know who will be starting next year based on how things have been run.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658763#Comment_123658763

Well, they are a lot more constructive , and thought out , than the usual rubbish that has been spouted by the usuals...…

'He's sh1t' ..... 'He shouldn't be playing' ..... blah blah blah....

tbiggertycome

My fear as previously outlined is that for Derek to come back we need new blood in both the starting team and the panel. The issue with that, is that a lot of the players he probably should be calling in will have either had experience of the setup (likely not overly positive, if your dropped) or will have heard from others on the panel or seen for themselves the lack of chances and changes to the starting team.

Will the news of Derek staying on change Huw Lawlors mind from travelling? Can his mind be changed at all and maybe he's determined to go. I just feel if you had a fresh setup with an interesting coaching ticket that you could get some guys who previously turned down invitations or were thinking of travelling that they would be more interested in committing to the county.

If we don't retain Huw Lawlor for next year and we start to introduce a lot of new players which we need to do, then I think it just makes it that bit harder on the new lads to settle in and find their feet. In reality if Huw leaves (and thanks to him if he goes, he's been brilliant for us) we will have to bed in at least 3 to 5 new backs.

Lets say we keep M Butler (questionable given his form)

Huw needs a replacement if in Oz

Tommy Walsh/Shane Murphy neither corner backs in my opinion, need replacing (they can be used elsewhere)

M Carey comes back, but in the same position?

R Reid can't be centre back or in the backs at all next year imo

P Deegan same as R Reid.

So if you play say S Murphy or D Blanchfield in the half back line, you still probably need a CB, although I think Blanchfield can do it. You need a full and corner back at a minimum. Thats likely half your defence or more in every game next year will have little to no intercounty experience. If you had Huw he could provide that anchor to set things around although I would have him as our CB.

In fairness to Lyng I know he called E Donnelly but apparently Eddie had no interest in doing gym work and that wasn't a runner, I don't think Lyng is different to any other manager there. Given our issue at the CB position, I would wonder would it be worth trying to accommodated Eddie, something like set him a test every month as long as he can pass the test without the gym work then he doesn't need to do it. If he can't, he either does the gym work or he goes. At the end of the day it's about how he can hurl on the field and not about lifting dumbbells. Now given the modern game you have to have the strength and speed to compete but some guys have that from their day to day work (speed not so much but strength definitely). In reality though, if your making different rules and standards for lads it doesn't do much for team cohesion and all that good stuff. So it's probably not a runner in reality and I'm not criticising Derek for not doing it but we need to start thinking outside the box. Kilkenny always had a nippy, wristy, corner forward or two. I haven't seen one been given a real go in the league in a very long time. It might not work out but other counties use them, we seem to have moved away from them since the Cody days. Then again given how we play we probably wouldn't create the game plan for them to thrive in so they just don't get picked.

Sir Chaz

I think Lyng should stay and be given the opportunity to make some of the changes that it looks like we are crying out for. Murphy has been a remarkable goalkeeper for us and will arguably go down as the greatest ever, but time waits for no man and we need someone there with a gamechanging puckout, and he just doesn't have that. 6 needs a change as well and we need to move on from Deegan as a defender as well. If Eddie Donnelly can be persuaded to commit to it the same as everyone else, then bring him on and see what he has. If he's in any way doubtful though then he should be let nowhere near the squad. Last thing we need are half committed players.

We are very, very close as the last 2 years have proven. You have to think Derek has huge regrets watching Tipp Sunday knowing we had the boot on their throats and somehow managed to lose the game. I'd imagine his disappointment of 2 weeks ago will have dissipated a little and he'll give it another shot.

The most important appointment is at U20 level, which I've heard nothing about at all. Minor is a hugely important job appointment also but we know we have 3 good teams at U20 in the next 3 years. You'd think both those jobs should be filled before the club championships start so they can look at potential panellists in action??
We need someone to mould and harden those boys for senior hurling, the same way Cahill has done for Tipp. We have to start producing more resilient and abrasive players, and much of that comes from management. If someone can do that and add a bit of success, then we'll go a long way to making sure the medium term future is brighter than some would have us believe.

Nickindublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123660281#Comment_123660281

if Lawlor travels that will be a huge job to replace. No one can criticise him if he does.

After 3 years will Lyng be up for a major rebuild especially in defence. Goalie, 1 corner back, no 6 and if blanch doesn't find form a half back. You would say Murphy could fill that spot.

Midfield is OK but you would need a decent back up.

The forward line needs more pressure from the bench. If Tj stays that would help but he needs at least 3 forwards to step up and put pressure on the others.

I do think if 2 or 3 of the older players call time it could be a blessing in disguise.

Nickindublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123660415#Comment_123660415

Everything needs to sorted by end of month IMO. I think a new face is needed but if Lyng stays on he will have my full support.

IMO he needs to retire a couple of players but I don't think he has it in him and if Lawlor travels he might not have the luxury to even do it.

Sir Chaz

I don't know anything about Huw Lawlor travelling apart from what I've read here, but you'd hope he'd look at Tipp and Clare last couple of years and realise both could just as easily have been us. Walking away at his peak would be unusual and even bizarre for a player of his prominence and stature in the game.

Billy Ocean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123660908#Comment_123660908

I'm sure more than just hurling would be factors in his decision, cost of living is a big factor for alot of young people travelling at the moment, to the best my knowledge Huw and his partner both work in health care so career opportunities could be considered aswell.

Oíche Na Gaoithe Móire

I'd be hopeful Huw Lawlor will be available. I've seen fellas stay when persuaded and realise how short their careers are. Lawlor will be 30 in March. A lot of fellas travel for 3 or 4 months, November until March and are fine for championship, they've years of fitness built up.

I think Lyng should go. I think the fact he hasn't already may be a sign he intends to stay. For me, the team has regressed from 2022. They should be peaking. If you can't win a game with probably 60% possession like the semi then there's something wrong.

Just because the previous incumbent was there for 24 years doesn't mean it's a life job. And he was there for a reason, performance. There's no use in Kilkenny adopting the old Man Utd ideal 'we're not a sacking club'. The Kilkenny CB had no problem moving on Nicky Brennan and Kevin Fennelly, 2 and 1 year terms, pre Cody. Sentiment doesn't cut it in sport, if this didn't happen or this did doesn't cut it.

2pt loss to Limerick 2022, becomes a 10 pt loss the following year in the final. In 2024 fall at the semi after letting a lead slip. 2025 tactically poor in the first half. It's very hard to claw back those 3 goals.

Nothing personal but I can't see Derek Lyng winning an All Ireland for Kilkenny. He's doing his best, the players give their all, but it's not working. That 2022 team should have been primed to sweep in as Limerick came back to the pack. And there are alternative homegrown managers.

terryrogers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123659514#Comment_123659514

Did he not bring in Jack Grealish, Cianan Fahy, Tom Monaghan etc in his first year in Galway? Lyng brought in Molloy only in 3 years. I know for a fact Shefflin spent an awful lot of hours up there too.

His record was better than those who were there before and after him in Galway too, granted his final few games were ones to forget. Don't forget though that either one of Kilkenny, Dublin or Wexford could have been knocked out that day.

Shefflin may not do any better than Lyng if given the chance, but I am certain that he would change things up and give youth a chance moreso than Lyng.

Nickindublin

No matter who is in charge this team needs freshening up in all areas. Goalkeeper full back line half back line half forward line and full forward line. The guys there need to be looking over their shoulders at the bench knowing someone wants their shirt. That's not the case now. You need a bit of youth in the team. If your the opposition you basically know the KK team. Might be an odd change here and there but the personal you know as they have basically been around for years. You know who to target and who's likely to make mistakes under a bit of pressure. If we keep doing the same thing we will be as long as Cork are now. We are only 10 years behind them.

Village87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123661041#Comment_123661041

Does Huw Lawlor have a brother in New Zealand or Australia ? If he was back around April time that would be fine for him. Give him plenty of time to be 100% for the All Ireland semi final.

MfMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123661136#Comment_123661136

They were on the panel prior to his appointment anyway, but he gave them more of a chance than previous managers. He also brought in Gavin Lee and Tiernan Killeen, 2 of the more promising players available. He didn't get too many breaks during his tenure it must be said - running a near-peak Limerick team (and biased referee) very close in 2022 and freakishly losing the 2023 LF final. Small margins.

Nickindublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123662336#Comment_123662336

No problem with him going for 6 months if he wants. Carey went a couple of years ago and came back but i think a little late or he got injured. If he plans to travel and come back for the championship I would hope he be given a fitness regime that might help him avoid an injury when he comes back training.

neverbet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123661636#Comment_123661636

I don't think anyone disagrees with you there. However players of the elite standard required to my eyes are not there for us at the moment outside what we have.. I remember Jordan Molloy as an outstanding minor in Croke Park, small in stature and it took him a few years to graduate to Senior. Injury denied him a true chance last year. Cahills team is mostly made up of players from AI winning minor and u21 teams he managed, all outstanding at the time, and now young players from 02,03,04,05 with AI minor and u20 medals in their pockets. The secret to success lies in underage success and managing it patiently. Whoever manages KK next year will have some job to keep us in the top three let alone win an AI. Making little of the warriors we have like Paddy Deegan is pure scandalous(not you). I am from the other side of the county, don't know the chap but if all our lads had the same "dog" in them we would be ok.

Nickindublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123662503#Comment_123662503

We wont get elite players by not selecting them and playing. They need to be thrown in at the deep end to learn. Some will swim straight away while others will take time and a few will sink. But if you dont try them you will never know. We have been kinda consistant at underage without winning. I dont know whether this management team are willing to work, coach and develope younger players or they want them ready made.

Success is great at underage. It gives players that winning feeling but i think developing these players is more important. We need pathways from Minor to U20 and from U20 to Senior. I am sure thats being worked on but if the players are not getting the chances to progress or dont see a pathway they will hang up their boots and travel or refuse to go in.

Paddy gives 100% but unfortunately gives the boo boys a stick to beat him with. He can play great all year but then have that one bad game. To me he is a squad player. Very versastile and can come off the bench if needed in multiple postions.

Village87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123662503#Comment_123662503

We are more or less guaranteed an All Ireland semi final next year, same as this year, realistically all we have to do is win one game to make an All Ireland final, we should be absolutely primed to come up against a Munster team that finished 2nd or 3rd in the group, with a major emphasis on the bench with 10 minutes to go, absolutely ridiculous we allowed ourselves to be over run with 10 minutes to go by a team with 14 players, have we not learned anything in the last 7/8 years?

On Paddy Deegan, if you are not good enough at this level you are found out and this has happened Deegan for years in the All Ireland semi finals and finals. We have no All Ireland the last 10 years and Deegan has been a main player during this time with 5/6 players i could name that have not been good enough. They had the luxury of hurling with TJ, Lawlor, Eoin Murphy etc, some of our best ever. I am going up to Croke Park the last number of years and Deegan has been very poor. His time is up in my opinion especially in the backs, i backed him in the semi final to start this year and again he had a very very poor game, sorry if that is making little of him but i am fed up losing these games and the same individuals giving lacklustre performances