Kilkenny GAA Thread

kksaints

Attendances at Kilkenny club matches and the National league match in Nowlan Park tend to be good to excellent for the size of the population of the county. But our Championship attendances particularly for matches in Croke Park are poor. Not entirely sure why either, must just be that we don't like travelling for anything other than a All Ireland Final and even at them we've been outnumbered by a considerable number.

brookville

https://www.the42.ie/short-puck-out-2-5808154-Jul2022/?utm_source=shortlink

Great analysis from Sean flynn. He's probably right in that limerick could give up our puckouts to Tommy Walsh and try force a turnover. He hasnt a great record. Himself and deegan will really need to be on the ball because Limerick will go after them two particularly.

Fred Daly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295918#Comment_119295918

Who was the ref Eoin Behan.

Another point about crowds.

Thurles for Munster games and Munster finals, especially, has a great atmosphere usually. Going back 100 years I suppose. I remember games like Cork v Tipp 1984, Clare v Tipp 1987 etc. Meanwhile Leinster had a few thousand in Croke Park etc for games with very little atmosphere. 5pm Saturday evening games. In hindsight it was a slap in the face to Leinster hurling, here's the hind tit for you!

But many years, including this year, people equate this great atmosphere with Munster teams being streets ahead of Leinster. The Limerick v Clare Munster final this year was a prime example. For 15-20 minutes of the second half there were some very bad wides hit, particularly by Clare. This got lost in the romanticising of the game. But Clare were hitting the same wides, only worse last Saturday.

dzer2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296150#Comment_119296150

Yep

Alonzo Moseley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296289#Comment_119296289

History is littered with Munster finals being terrible barometers of form when it comes to All Ireland success.

This also extends to underage and Colleges, where the greater folklore and mythology of "Munster" often over emphasised the actual quality.

Even look at U20 this year, we were reliably told the gap in standard between the Munster and Leinster finals was such that Kilkenny hadn’t a chance in final.

At the root of this over inflation of Munster teams is indeed wides. Clare got hammered so their huge wide total became a big talking point. However, hugewide totals are commonplace in almost every Munster match but glossed over when the score is 1-28 to 0-31 etc.

Munster profligacy doesn’t end with Clare, all Munster team's frequently clock mid and high teen wides. It is said the Limerick backroom team have the wides built in to their calculations, that their emphasis is ensuring they get a mid-40s shot total and that will see them home even with a high wide total

In Kilkenny, they may have problem. Kilkenny may hit single digit wides and if Limerick hit 6-8 more than that, they will be in trouble. Kilkenny are probably the only team that can beat Limerick with 40% possession.

Galway are the next best shot but blew a great chance by shooting 19 wides.

PeggyShippen

There's some truth in the synopsis on Munster Hurling. There's definately more wides and it gets romanticised more. But overall its an awful lot more competitive than Leinster. The chances are Kilkenny would not have got out of Munster this year. A full stadium and a really close match is common in Munster aswell especially for finals. It brings the most support in any provincial competition year on year. I do think Kilkennys economical shooting could win them the final. They'd have beaten Limerick on Sunday. But what way will limerick pitch up in Two weeks. Youd have to say they ll ne up another notch. Kilkenny will be too but I wouldnt start Walter Walsh especially not on Dan Morrissey. He would suit Morrissey down to the ground.

On support at matches limerick and Cork are the most economically wealthy areas of Ireland outside of Dublin. Cork has 550,000 and Limerick 200,000 people. Also Limerick love sport and following teams..They are the backbone of Munster rugby support and while hurling isn't played much in Limerick city,in comparison to Cork or Kilkenny or Waterford city alot of Limerick city people follow the hurlers. They wouldn't have a Club per say but would be big sports people.

Alonzo Moseley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119297451#Comment_119297451

I agree, Kilkenny probably would not have got out of Munster this year, but it's swings and roundabouts. Galway would probably have got out of Munster in 2019 and would have been more than a match for Tipp or Kilkenny in final.

I would caution on an automatic assumption of "Limerick will up it in final", they look a lot like Galway 2018 to me, playing in devastating 15-20 min bursts but not torching teams for 70 mins. Getting dragged in to more and more tight games. The assumption for 2018 final was like 2022, a general feeling that Galway would up it and play a full 70 mins. They didn't, their form line for the year proved accurate, a team that didn’t have a devastating 70 mins in them.

On support. Kilkenny have fanatical support base but are by far the smallest population of the current hurling powers so will always be outnumbered on the big days. If Kilkenny bring 20,000 to a AIF it's the equivalent of Cork bringing over 100,000. The slagging Kerry get in football is similar, but the reality is you cannot win 36 All Irelands without a county being fanatical about the game.

Both Kilkenny and Kerry probably have the highest average attendances at league matches over the years. That shows their core support is among the highest.

kilkennyboy

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/this-finally-puts-to-bed-all-the-cp-talk-about-brian-cody-john-mullane-41813910.html

should be easier get tickets now with all the people that won't support Kilkenny with cody at the helm.🤣🤣

blackcard

A hell of a lot of things would have to go right for Kilkenny to win.

A much higher conversion rate of chances than Lk. Kilkenny did well against Clare in this regard but may not get the same room for scores against the Lk defence. Limerick will be confident that they will create enough scoring opportunities that accuracy is not as important

Kilkenny would have to score at least 2 more goals than Lk.

Kilkenny would have to restrict the quality of ball into Gillane and Flanagan. To me, it doesn't matter who is marking them if they get the same quality of ball as they did against Galway. The other hope is that they have an off day with their shooting.

The hope that Lynch and Casey are rusty/not fully fit.

Red cards. If Kilkenny gets one, they are finished. I can't remember any of the starting 15 from last Saturday ever getting a red card at county or club level. Limerick have been extraordinarily fortunate not to have more red cards the last few years but seen to have improved and did not even get a yellow card last Sunday. With their method of working the ball through the lines, Lk still would have a chance with 14 men

Enforcing the rules on throwing the ball. Limerick are probably the highest offenders, Tipp and Kilkenny the lowest. The tendency from referees is however to penalise each team once and ignore the rest

Penalising excessive steps. All teams offend, Cork probably the worst, but excessive steps is more important to the Limerick playbook. However, as with the thrown balls, the tendency is to penalise each team once and then forget about it.

Conversations 3

Thoughts?

blackcard

He refereed Kilkenny Galway match in Salthill where the dubious last minute free was awarded to Galway but I could see why he awarded it. Also refereed the two Limerick Clare matches this year where he was credited " in letting the match flow" which probably favours Limerick's physicality. However, he did get some criticism for not sending off a Clare player.

RamonD3

Will be a free taking competition between tj and gillane and burns now with at least 1 red card. First remember seeing him at a league game in nowlan Park sending off 2 kilkenny players, hasn't improved over the years. Keenan who did the munster final would have been a good pick for a spectacle. Limerick couldn't be happy as he harshly sent off Hegarty in the round Robin.

tbiggertycome

I've never been happier to change my mind than I am now. My issue with Cody staying on was not his ability to get huge work rate out of our players but his unwillingness (up until very recently) to embrace a change in our style of play. This finally seems to be how we will play going forward and I'm delighted and relieved. I said on here after the Wexford game that I wouldn't attend Kilkenny games outside the county as long as BC was in charge. I couldn't countenance watching that kind of display again and seeing good players playing stupid hurling. I was mildly encouraged after our change of style against Galway in the Leinster final hoping it wasn't just temporary. Saturday I was really happy with how we played against Clare. We're not perfect at this type of game yet and as others have pointed out we were very lax on the Clare puckouts up to midfield and they should have had more scores from this area. However the fact we were using short and long ball cleverly delights me no end. If we go out in the final and loose playing that way I'll be happy that we have given it our best shot as opposed to how I felt after the Wexford game. If I can get a ticket I will be in Croke Park and delighted to roar them on.

On the game itself I give us every chance as long as we continue to hurl smart. Undoubtedly the pressure will be higher than we faced in the semi final but we stuck to our new way of hurling against Galway when things were a good bit tighter. If Limerick turn up and hurl like they have in the last two finals we'll be beat have no doubts about it. I do question if they can or will get to that level for the whole game as Alonso Moseley pointed out above. Clares performance was flagged against Wexford and they were struggling, most people expected a bounce from them as they finished the Wexford game strong. For me Wexford faded in that game rather than Clare upping it (easy to say now). However if you look at Limericks games they can maintain their level of work for the full 70 and beyond and it's Clare or Galway fading or making poor decisions that has been getting them clear in the end. The impact their bench has on their ability to keep their tempo high is huge for them and this is the hallmark of a great team which Limerick clearly are. I do think we can last to the 75 better than Clare or Galway but what impact will we get from the bench? Our bench bar Wally was fairly poor and Limerick got a lot more out of Reidy and Boylan so the subs will have a huge bearing on the final score.

We play a similar style to Galway but we trust our defence more, Galway had two sweepers at times in the Leinster final. I think if our defence can do a similar job against Limerick (as they have done in the last two games) in the final and we can take more of those easy chances Galway fluffed, we are in with a great chance of winning. I wouldn't have any fear of Limericks physicality yes they'll come flying out of the blocks at us but I think we will too. I know for a fact that most of those Limerick players and some of the backroom team have been mad to get a crack at Kilkenny again after the 2019 semi which they think they were robbed of. Yes things will have to go right for us but that's the way it is for any All Ireland.

Either way I think it will be an epic game much closer than any of the recent finals and if we're close or ahead with ten to go, we will win.

Marrooned

Are they having a laugh or what,one if not the most controversial refs this year could they not have picked someone with a clean record.

citykat

As long James Owens isn't in charge., we'll be grand. Owens is clearly biased against Kilkenny. His record speaks for itself. He's an embarrassment. I'd say he practices flashing the cards in front of a full length mirror.

Marrooned

i hope Brian Cody didn’t say anything about the refs mother up in salthill.

lim4ev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300752#Comment_119300752

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300752#Comment_119300752

totally agree re owens but lyons is bad for just everyone from what I see it's an awful job we all realise that but he's liable to do anything.

this literally could come down to a bad call by him. either way!!

kilkennyboy

Limerick remind me of ourselves in 2013 .lots of big names struggling to find form and just getting through games.i really think this is a massive opportunity. To win a all Ireland you need momentum and I think we have it .we were concerned about not being a settled team now anyone could name 14 of our starting team .I think we are a better faster team than in 19 when we overran Limerick. And everyone forgets 18 when we weren't awarded a late free on donnelly that was crucial.

We have better defender's than galway and are way more economic with our chances galway got 47 shots away.our starting forwards hit 1 wide up to the 3rd quarter we may need goals but we have that threat.

In the 2 previous all Irelands Limerick completely dominated 2 teams that didn't come out of the blocks by 11 and 16.that simply won't happen to a Kilkenny team.

It's a pity it's only 2 weeks away as football will dominate all media until Tuesday and the build up will seem so short.

Langtons will be rocking Sunday week I smell 06 of this .

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300927#Comment_119300927

Some absolute horseshit being posted here about refs……what age are you guys……10…? Refs going out to deliberately ‘rob’ teams…….time to grow up……

Billy Ocean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298791#Comment_119298791

Lyons reffed the game in Ennis but not the Munster final.

Billy Ocean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119299071#Comment_119299071

A big factor also in that Clare game was Wexford injuries during the game, Rory o'connor off after 15 mins, 2 Recks going off when Clare took over and Chin been restricted to the FF line with a hamstring issue.

Mad about baa baas

From a fans perspective 2 weeks between the semi and final is very short..especially with football this weekend it will probably be Tuesday before media build up starts in earnest..

From the Kilkenny team perspective I think it may help..I think limerick haven't put a complete 70 minute performance together yet..2 weeks is too short for them to change/ work on much. If they had 4 weeks.lynch would probably improve considerably and the team would have a few serious in house games and might peak better ...Kilkenny hopefully stay doing what they are doing..

I would have lawlor on gillane..he is very pacy and will be brave enough to hurl from the front..as good as butler is if gillane got a couple of.scores early on butler might be rattled..lawlor seems very hard.to faze. Butler then will only😬 have to worry about Flanagan .. l am definitely an eternal optimist but I really am starting to believe we can win this..limerick won't man mark so our forwards will hopefully be well capable of holding their own and picking up scores.

Here's hoping

tbiggertycome

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119301897#Comment_119301897

Yeah that's the point I was clumsily trying to make. Wexford lost key players and faded which made it look like Clare were doing better I think they just held their own and Wexford levels dropped big time with those losses throughout the game but particularly with the Recks going off helped Clare look like they were surging back into the game. The point still stands though that Clare faded in extra time of the Munster Final and Galway did in the last 5-10 mins of the Semi Final. I think Limerick just maintained their levels (with subs) but because of the drop from Clare and Galway they were able to win the extra time and the semi. I just think we haven't faded like that but we probably haven't been pushed as hard as we will be for the final.

tbiggertycome

My only issue with Owens is his consistently inconsistent. I don't think he's trying to go out and do either side but he easily could so with a bad call, both sides have been on the receiving end of them this year.

davidx40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119301636#Comment_119301636

That simply won't happen to a Kilkenny team you obviously weren't at 16 and 19 finals ........I don't think it will happen but don't rule it out either ......Limerick are a savage team and I don't think they've hit top gear at all this year yet .....there a seasoned team who will relish the chance to do the 3 in a row with a win over Cody's KK.......I watched the Clare semifinal again last night and Clare were shocking played as complete individuals.......We played brilliant don't get me wrong but we've a lot more to prove ......there's still big question marks over Billy Ryan , Mossy K , Conor Browne , Ritchie Reid , Tommy Walsh , Ritchie Leahy ,

Billy Ocean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303642#Comment_119303642

Big time it was no coincidence Kelly and O'Donnell stormed into that after the 2 of them went off.

brookville

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119301897#Comment_119301897

Dee o keeffe was also a big loss I felt and the job for egan now is blood a few young lads during the league and stick with them.it was another very good opportunity missed for wexford.Wexford were the better team the night they played us but our tactics that night was beyond shocking and you look how much tj,mullen and a few more have improved.If we beat Limerick Sunday week that match will certainly be the turning point. There was alot of doom around after that and the u20s the day after only barely lifted the mood.

kksaints

Good to see the footballers qualifying for the All-Ireland Junior Final in Croke Park on Sunday after beating London tonight. Paul Murphy and Ciaran Wallace were the notable ex-hurling panel members on the team.

mullinr2

After re-watching the match it is clear that we will need more from our subs if we are to beat Limerick. Both Cody's and Mullens game to a lesser extent drop off in the second half. We need a full 70 mins from these two guys. I would also be worried about the amount of chances Clare had, fortunately for us they had a nightmare in terms of accuracy in which Limerick won't in the final. A lot to be hopeful about but let's not get carried away, Limerick could click in the final and blow us away to our third heavy defeat in an All Ireland