Russia - threadbanned users in OP

flutered

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122020422#Comment_122020422

last saturday night cost 1.2 billion to defend israel

victor8600

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024057#Comment_122024057

Your Hitler argument is weak. It is very much a battle of wills. Why haven't Ukraine collapsed in the first days of the invasion? Because of thousands of Ukrainian volunteers that were fighting a long fight on the borders of Donbas and Luhansk, because of Zelensky who quite unexpectedly decided to become a hero, because of the Ukrainian army that stood and fought.

Was it inevitable? Not at all. In the South of Ukraine (Mariupol excepted) people were not ready to fight and the Russian army just rolled into Kherson practically unopposed. If Zelensky did what was expected of him and fled the country, would the Ukrainian army fight with the same determination? Would anyone send Ukraine weapons if the country didn't show the will to fight? I would bet not.

EltonJohn69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024596#Comment_122024596

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024596#Comment_122024596

wut ?

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024596#Comment_122024596

Natural partners to who? They aren't very popular among their neighbours, which has probably something to do with the fact that they tend to invade them.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024431#Comment_122024431

1.2 billion what exactly?

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024596#Comment_122024596

Who is "we"?

Ukraine are fighting Russia because they've been invaded by them. Because Russian soldiers have raped, murdered and tortured civilians and flattened large parts of their country.

Why are the rest of the western world supporting Ukraine? See above.

Why are the Russian soldiers doing this? Because they're under the control of a weak, megalomaniac gangster who has managed to violently supress all opposition to his criminal empire that masquerades as the successor to the USSR.

Why haven't Russian patriots risen up against him? A small number have, and they're fighting alongside Ukraine. Most Russian men are clearly too cowardly to join them. Others are simply brainwashed, under-educated fools akin to their Trump supporting American rednecks.

A final question: why are you posting Russian propaganda on an Irish forum? Are you one of the aforementioned Russian cowards who'll do Putin's bidding because you're too afraid to do otherwise? An Irishman being paid by the Kremlin to spout their shite? A bot that's been programmed to do so? Or just another under-educated fool who "did his research" online?

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024596#Comment_122024596

Russia is a fukn stain on the world. You're shilling for Satan.

Say my name

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_Russian_businesspeople_%282022%E2%80%932024%29

The Putin purge.

All hail Putin!! ....(sarcasm).

Beasty

DoyleLoneganYouFollow threadbanned

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023321#Comment_122023321

Welcome, new user.

IdHidden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024596#Comment_122024596

natural partners of dictators.

aidanodr

If true, game changer

Chuck is former Seal,

https://twitter.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1780046800889499884

https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1779857683559961066

Poon Tang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023329#Comment_122023329

Of course they are, they're in a proxy war with Russia. And they have committed some $75 billion in aid, which is set to dominate the US election. For reference, Ukraine's military budget was $4.1 billion in 2018, which was a 30% increase from 2017.

So, without western - and particularly US - "help" Ukraine would not have any chance of still being in this fight. Of course, it's not enough to just stay in the fight. Ukraine need to have a chance of winning, if western support is to continue. It's looking very unlikely that Ukraine can defeat Russia, something many experts suggested at the outset of this conflict. But they were ignored, and are still being ignored in some quarters.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024815#Comment_122024815

Alleged proxy war with not a shred of evidence in your post, yet there's documented accounts everyday of them not supporting their proxy for the last 6 months? No money or weapons, it's all about Israel now and anything tacked onto Bills that include support for Ukraine is embroiled in debacle. Is that what constitutes a proxy war these days?

Speaking of proxys, which formerly threadbanned putinbot is your new reg a proxy for?

zerosquared

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4595993-speaker-johnson-unveils-plan-for-ukraine-israel-at-closed-door-gop-meeting/

Looks like we have movement, with new lend lease and Russian asset seizing thrown on top too

Jinglejangle69

Heard Johnson is planning to cut the Ukraine ammo aid to millions though.

Praying it’s not true.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024815#Comment_122024815

The fact that US has no soldiers on the ground very much so works in favour of the administration. As wars go, any financing or weapons are cheap and no Americans are dying. I'm reasonably sure overall that the war in Ukraine will have little impact on the US voting public.

Long term for the US, this historically won't look bad for them cause they're supporting another nation's sovereignty.(Not a proxy war) And the Russian military will effectively be decimated for decades to come.

Wibbs

Going by my experience the now threadbanned chap gives insight into some Russian thinking, which imho is valuable to consider. And debate/point out the internal contradictions of that thinking.

EG: I should ask a very simple question and it is this: Why are we fighting Russia? They are natural neighbours. Natural partners etc

Note how it starts from the position of how it's Russia who's being attacked. It's always someone else at fault. This is a very common thread in both Kremlin spin and among many average Russians. Of course the former pushes the latter for obvious reasons. It also has a long historical angle that Russia can't seem to let go of.

You'll also notice the usual amnesia about the past. Europe was indeed trying to be "natural neighbours". Europe has been buying Russian oil and gas since the early 1980's when it was Soviet oil and gas. After the Soviet system fell it continued to do so and after things settled down in the aftermath was building infrastructure with Russia in Russia investing billions in same.

Russia should indeed have been a natural partner, but the problem is Russia never really got on board with the rest of Europe politically or socially. For a start it clung to its past as the last European empire standing, whereas the rest of once imperial Europe at least acknowledged that past was in the past. This imperial thinking still informs much of how Russia thinks and operates. It also remained mired in old structures with levels of corruption and state control pretty much unthinkable in the rest of Europe.

But someone doesn't want that to happen

More enemies from without. If it weren't America/CIA/Nazis it would always be someone.

Russia is the biggest country in the world. Why would they want to add to that?

Because it's far more an empire than a country like Spain or Belgium and empires are paranoid about their borders. This goes triple for land empires because it's a lot closer to home than some part of the world you plant a flag in overseas.

Steviemak7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024815#Comment_122024815

If the US are in a proxy war with Russia, then who are the 3rd party acting as Russian's proxy ?

TheValeyard

I like this thing

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1780133523409522948

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024637#Comment_122024637

ah he is gone so I won’t get an answer to this

The point i wanted to illustrate was that even Putin drones measure in a strong currency like dollar or euro and don’t measure or want to be paid themselves in roubles

And this is why Ukraine will win, Russians themselves deep down under all the denials and repressions know they are in deep 💩

Poon Tang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024913#Comment_122024913

It's far more the case, that Russia were deliberately frozen out of the plans for post cold war Europe. They were seen as a defeated outcast, rather than embraced as a new partner with the potential to enrich the western project. Unfortunately, the Americans have never wanted to be partners of any kind with Russia. They're only partners with Europe, because we bow down to them and let them walk all over us. For the Americans, everything is a d!ck measuring contest, and Russia has always been seen as a threat to them. Vast amounts of land, resources and 1,000's of nukes… this gives Russia a type of independence that America hates.

It's the same with China. The best thing for peace and security globally, would be for China and America to have strong positive relations. But America can never be friends or strong partners with any nation that they perceive as a threat to their dominance. So we will always have a lack of peace/security, while nations see each other as rivals rather than partners.

Talking about the political or societal failings of particular nations, as a reason for bad relations, is just a deliberate part of this strategy to perpetuate rivalry and division among nations. You have to find a way to co-operate with all nations globally, even if you have diametrically opposing views on certain issues. In fact, it's even more important to find these diplomatic solutions to avoid the sort of deep divisions mankind has always historically engendered.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024990#Comment_122024990

Absolute nonsense. Russia weren't frozen out of plans for post cold war Europe. Russia and NATO signed the NATO-Russia Founding Act.

We have seen how difficult it was for Europe to wean itself off Russia products at the start of this illegal war of aggression and plunder by Russia. How could that be the case if Russia was frozen out?

So it is just a dump of Russian propaganda and lies.

Russia froze themselves out by their continued hostility to what they see as their territory but rightly its inhabitants seen as their sovereign countries, as they continue to try to bully Poland, the Baltics, Georgia, Moldova etc etc

It is Russia who has perpetuated rivalry and division in Europe, not the West, not the US, not the EU.

The reason why Russia is seen as a threat to them is because it is, proven by its historic treatment of them and it current actions in Ukraine which gives a foretaste of what would be in store for such countries under Russia domination.

Russia has never seen those countries as a partner of any kind, don't pretend otherwise, it would be a transparent Russian lie. Those countries, when given the free choice to do so, either have or want to take their place in Western alliances such as NATO or the EU. Proof positive your claims here are false, without merit and without foundation.

Hoop66

Ah, another "USA bad, therefore…" poster.

So, explain how the US forced Russia to invade their neighbour?

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025080#Comment_122025080

They've plenty of prior art:

Add Ukraine 2022 to that. There are plenty of countries where RuZZia is actively involved in their wars, like Syria, Central African Republic, Mali…

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024990#Comment_122024990

The Americans certainly did ignore Russia and saw it as Soviets gone, job done, war won, ha ha ha(stupidly). Europe by comparison didn't to nearly the same degree. As I pointed out Europe was buying their oil and gas since the early 80s. Much to the chagrin of some in America too. After the Soviet Union fell and after Russia had settled down somewhat post oligarchs robbing their own blind Europe was investing and investing heavily in Russia. A huge chunk of the infrastructure that moves their oil and gas around came from Europe. Never mind European companies building plants in Russia.

And Russia had always been a threat to The West© since WW2. A direct threat too, especially to Europe on her doorstep. While the other European empires were crumbling post war, Russia had consolidated and extended her empire across a carved up post war central and Eastern Europe(not far off what pre war Stalin had agreed with Hitler either) needing barbed wire and walls to keep people in, with occasional tanks on the streets to make sure. The Yanks didn't invent all that. Never mind all the proxy wars of the Cold War between them and the US that killed countless numbers. The minute Moscow lost control of those countries all save for Belarus and Ukraine looked "West" and joined Europe and NATO. They had bloody good reasons for that. Compare and contrast East and West Germany. A decade after Nazism fell West Germany held free elections. Hell, even a few old Nazi's tried their luck. That's the thing with actually free elections. They also had a free press reflecting all sorts of opinions. When did East Germany get free elections? When did East Germany get a free press? The social and economic differences between the two systems couldn't be more stark too. Which system would you want to deal with? More, which system would you want to trust?

And nations always see rivals, interests or clashes of same. China is just as much prey to this as the US. Never mind that China's economic growth was driven a lot by Western investment and Western products. But again trust comes into it. Intellectual property seems to be hard to translate into Mandarin, Beijing's books are notoriously cooked and try getting investment out of China. They don't have an open system, so again trust is an issue, no matter who they're dealing with.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023321#Comment_122023321

I don't get this logic?

A) they're not in a war - completely different to Iraq/ Afghanistan where you had US soldiers on the ground and US lives being lost. Here, its the Ukrainians handing Putin's ass to him for the US and all they're asking for is the military support from - not just the US - the West.

B) this war is likely to be massively beneficial to the US economy - military and weapons manufacture - JERBS! - and sales, guaranteed finger in the pie when the country is being rebuilt.

C) this is the chance to kick Russia in the balls that generations of red blooded Yanks dreamed of… yet the good ol boys in the Republican party are siding with the Reds?

Stoopid is as stoopid does I guess…

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024815#Comment_122024815

They are NOT in a war. A 'proxy war' is some lose, undefinable term that could be used to declare half the globe in a 'war' with Russia.

The US is NOT in a war with Russia and more than China is in a war with Ukraine.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024961#Comment_122024961

Why would you publicise this (seems to be happening a lot in this war)… essentially giving forewarning of new developments, technologies and strategies? Unless of course it's a complete white elephant that the Ukrainians know will never see action and they just want to put the wind up Putin?

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025126#Comment_122025126

I don't think the 1942-44 countries should be included in that list.