Van Morrison duet with Ian Paisley Jnr.

Gregor Samsa

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

So what you’re saying is that it’s up there with Shrek.

https://www.vulture.com/2020/12/national-film-registry-2020-dark-knight-grease-and-shrek.html

But Shrek is culturally significant. It was fairly innovative in computer animation

MeepMeep2021

MeepMeep2021 wrote: »

Yes, but that is in the nature of science. It takes a genius to cut through centuries of 'understanding' and improve upon and expand it.


Van didn't genre bust or fuse, didn't create a new genre, and didn't stretch music in any way.

Lots of music critics would disagree on the latter. Creating genres doesn’t make you great. Influence isn’t a test either.

Astral weeks generally gets into the top 100 and sometimes too ten of all time albums. Given his relative obscurity these days, and the standard recency bias of these lists, that’s impressive.

olestoepoke

MeepMeep2021 wrote: »

Yes, but that is in the nature of science. It takes a genius to cut through centuries of 'understanding' and improve upon and expand it.


Van didn't genre bust or fuse, didn't create a new genre, and didn't stretch music in any way.

Ever heard of any of these guys? A few of them would most probably disagree with you.

Morrison's influence can readily be heard in the music of a diverse array of major artists and according to The Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock and Roll (Simon & Schuster, 2001), "his influence among rock singers/songwriters is unrivaled by any living artist outside of that other prickly legend, Bob Dylan.

Echoes of Morrison's rugged literateness and his gruff, feverish emotive vocals can be heard in latter-day icons ranging from Bruce Springsteen to Elvis Costello". His influence includes U2 (Bono was quoted saying "I am in awe of a musician like Van Morrison. I had to stop listening to Van Morrison records about six months before we made The Unforgettable Fire because I didn't want his very original soul voice to overpower my own.")

John Mellencamp ("Wild Night") Jim Morrison, Joan Armatrading (the only musical influence she will acknowledge) Nick Cave, Rod Stewart, Tom Petty, Rickie Lee Jones (recognizes both Laura Nyro and Van Morrison as the main influences on her career), Elton John, Graham Parker; Sinéad O'Connor, Phil Lynott of Thin Lizzy, Bob Seger ("I know Bruce Springsteen was very much affected by Van Morrison, and so was I." from Creem interview),("I've Been Working"), Kevin Rowland of Dexys Midnight Runners ("Jackie Wilson Said"), Jimi Hendrix ("Gloria"), Jeff Buckley ("The Way Young Lovers Do", "Sweet Thing"), Nick Drake, and numerous others, including the Counting Crows (their "sha-la-la" sequence in Mr Jones is a tribute to Morrison).
Morrison's influence reaches into the country music genre, with Hal Ketchum acknowledging, "He (Van Morrison) was a major influence in my life."

Morrison's influence on the younger generation of singer-songwriters is pervasive: including Irish singer Damien Rice, who has been described as on his way to becoming the "natural heir to Van Morrison"; Ray Lamontagne, James Morrison, Paolo Nutini, Eric Lindell, David Gray, and Ed Sheeran are also several of the younger artists influenced by Morrison.

Glen Hansard of the Irish rock band the Frames (who lists Van Morrison as being part of his holy trinity with Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen) commonly covers his songs in concert. American rock band the Wallflowers have covered "Into the Mystic".Canadian blues-rock singer Colin James also covers the song frequently at his concerts. Actor and musician Robert Pattinson has said Van Morrison was his "influence for doing music in the first place".Morrison has shared the stage with Northern Irish singer-songwriter Duke Special, who admits Morrison has been a big influence

olestoepoke

olestoepoke wrote: »

and according to The Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock and Roll

:pac:



I'm sorry, Van. It's nothing personal. Although I think you should be hung drawn and quartered for giving inspiration and sustenance to the likes of the counting crows and glen hansard when there is already enough evil in the world. X

Rothko

olestoepoke wrote: »

Astral Weeks turns 50 this month. What a record. Lester Bangs, in perhaps the greatest piece of rock criticism ever written, poetically referred to the 1968 Van Morrison album as a “beacon, a light on the far shores of the murk.” Greil Marcus, less poetically, called it “a profoundly intellectual album,” and meant it as a compliment. Both would agree that Astral Weeks is one of the best 47-minute pieces of music ever created. A landmark in the fusion of rock and jazz. A masterpiece.

Seems two of the worlds most respected musical and cultural critics disagree with you. Honestly, defending Van's musical talent against ignorant people who cant see past their own personal dislike is the easiest task in the world.

What do critics have to do with anything?

10000maniacs

olestoepoke wrote: »

Would you also consider much of what Bob Dylan has written "muddled garbage"? And if so do you also question his talent or genius?

If Van turned up to Dylan's pad with a shoe shine kit, that would be fitting.

Ash.J.Williams

MeepMeep2021 wrote: »

That's a weird take. History is the judge of these things and somehow I think The Doors have had maybe a tiny little bit more of a cultural impact and more of an influence on other musicians than Van.

Bands like Wire and Silver Apples have had more of an influence on other musicians than the likes of Van.

I’m talking about a point in time not now

elperello

MeepMeep2021 wrote: »

:pac:



I'm sorry, Van. It's nothing personal. Although I think you should be hung drawn and quartered for giving inspiration and sustenance to the likes of the counting crows and glen hansard when there is already enough evil in the world. X

10000maniacs wrote: »

If Van turned up to Dylan's pad with a shoe shine kit, that would be fitting.

Now you've gone all Hyperbole's greatest hits.

AllGunsBlazing

This thread is like top trumps for has beens.

Papa_Bear

I'd like to play me latest chart topper!


It's called "Me fans are stupid pigs"

Duckworth_Luas

olestoepoke wrote: »

The Last Waltz



Van Morrison "Stole the show"

I also suspect that Van stole everyone else's coke before the show.

Danko and Robertson were pi$$ing themselves as Van left the stage.

gormdubhgorm

These comments on this thread are because at Van gigs isn't it well known (in certain places) during the song Gloria. Van sings G.L.O.R.I.A. and the crowd sing 'IRA'

elperello

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

I also suspect that Van stole everyone else's coke before the show.

Danko and Robertson were pi$$ing themselves as Van left the stage.

Got to love these discussions.

Anonymous guy gets to time travel back 45 years and make stuff up.

Kaybaykwah

seaninbayarea wrote: »

I’ve been a huge Van fan since the early 80s, bought nearly all his albums and seen him many times. Always overlooked his contrariness but this is a bridge too far. Very disappointing

Love his music too. However, I saw him perform on St Patrick's day in Dublin in 1988 and his one song do was unimpressive, and if I remember well, he didn't address or acknowledge his warm audience. That stuck in my Irish Quebecois crock for all these years. Uncouth.

elperello

Kaybaykwah wrote: »

Love his music too. However, I saw him perform on St Patrick's day in Dublin in 1988 and his one song do was unimpressive, and if I remember well, he didn't address or acknowledge his warm audience. That stuck in my Irish Quebecois crock for all these years. Uncouth.

That's the package when it comes to VM.

He's a grumpy guy and doesn't try to hide it.

growleaves

Yikes his lyrics are not nonsensical.

The emotional meaning of lines like 'And I shall drive my chariot/Down your streets and cry' make perfect sense to the listener in combination with the music.

"Wait, so you're saying Van has travelled back in time to the Roman Empire? I don't understand."

Hangdogroad

Kaybaykwah wrote: »

Love his music too. However, I saw him perform on St Patrick's day in Dublin in 1988 and his one song do was unimpressive, and if I remember well, he didn't address or acknowledge his warm audience. That stuck in my Irish Quebecois crock for all these years. Uncouth.

Ironic that hes moaning about gig revenue drying up when hes long treated people who shell out hard cash to see him perform with contempt.

2x4

The island of Ireland has produced many top class musicians. I enjoy listening to all of them. I’m not taking away from any of them but in my opinion, Van Morrison is on a different level. His music will live on a long time.
I’ll just have to blank out his political views when I listen to him.

the beer revolu

Hangdogroad wrote: »

Ironic that hes moaning about gig revenue drying up when hes long treated people who shell out hard cash to see him perform with contempt.

I'll take the bait.
How has he treated audiences with contempt?

A musician is there to perform. It is not contempt to not engage in banal chit chat with the audience. I don't go to see a musician to hear their amusing anecdotes, I go to hear them perform their music.

Do you expect an orchestra to chat to the audience?
Contempt would be refusing to play or abusing your audience. Perhaps he had done these things. Has he?

JupiterKid

I've always been of the impression, based on friends whove been to a Van Morrison concert, that whilst Van's music is often great and he has an undeniable musical legacy, in concert he's never been very engaging with the crowd who pay to go see him. Plays with his back to the audience etc.

A duet with Paisley Jr. sounds like a complete car crash.

Sadler Peak

Two insufferable bores.

olestoepoke

elperello wrote: »

Got to love these discussions.

Anonymous guy gets to time travel back 45 years and make stuff up.

Such stupidity is not worthy of any response

elperello

olestoepoke wrote: »

Such stupidity is not worthy of any response

I suppose you are right.

Disappeared into the ether anyway.

Hyperbollix

I believe it's bred into these characters but once the avalanche of cash rolls in, they begin departing from reality. Noel Gallagher in a similar position with his "You can wear a mask if you want, but I fúcking won't!"

It boils down to the fact they don't like their champagne and private jetset lifestyle interrupted by grubby little politicians. They are above the rules for the plebs.

Hyperbollix

Hyperbollix wrote: »

I believe it's bred into these characters but once the avalanche of cash rolls in, they begin departing from reality. Noel Gallagher in a similar position with his "You can wear a mask if you want, but I fúcking won't!"

It boils down to the fact they don't like their champagne and private jetset lifestyle interrupted by grubby little politicians. They are above the rules for the plebs.

And then plaudits for Noel for being "based" - by said plebs. Eejitry.

dasdog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMLaHEwEX7Y

John_Rambo

MeepMeep2021 wrote: »

Language like 'genius' is thrown around with comical abandon when it comes to musicians. :pac:

It's not.

Van Morrisson however is a musical genius.

Beechwoodspark

Says a lot about “Sir George Ivan Morrison” that he lived through the turbulent societal civil strife from the 60s onwards in both America and here with the troubles ....

...yet the first protest movement he ever involved himself in was covid denial

Let that sink in.

Protestant - didn't affect him
White - didn't affect him
(He wasn't sectarian, and certainly not racist, but didn't seem the altruistic type).

olestoepoke

dasdog wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMLaHEwEX7Y

Call him whatever you like, disagree with his stance on covid, say he's lost his mind but anyone questioning the mans musical ability is either blinded by their dislike of him or absolutely clueless