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I have just been offered redundancy..

  • 01-06-2021 6:09pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ WhyTheFace


    Hi,

    I have been told today that my position is being made redundant. My employer offered me an alternative position but at less pay and a role I have no interest in.

    There is a 3 months notice stipulation in my contract so my job is secure until September but I have another lined up, which of course I won't be telling him.

    My employer said there will be a 30 day consultation process where we will look at my options, but I am not interested, although may play ball somewhat until I know more of my rights.

    I have been with the company 2 years and 2 months.
    Full time contract.
    Salary of €95k.
    15 days annual leave outstanding.

    I have no interest hanging on for the sake of it and would like to know what my next steps should be?

    What could I expect as a reasonable redundancy given my circumstances?

    Thanks in advance


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly


    Legal payment is 2 weeks per year. What are they offering?


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ WhyTheFace


    Legal payment is 2 weeks per year. What are they offering?

    Nothing yet as only told today and they expect a consultation process to look at options.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭ vandriver


    Legal payment is 2 weeks per year. What are they offering?

    2 weeks a year plus a week,so 5 weeks minimum due.
    BUT...this is based on a maximum of €600 a week,so 3k is the minimum .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,704 ✭✭✭ ForestFire


    I'm no expert on this topic but a few points to note.

    Your only in the company 2 years and 2 months?
    If they left you go a few weeks ago, you would have got nothing!!
    Are other people ion the company being made redundant?
    Do you think the company is in a position to pay over and above statuary redundancies (i.e. how is business in general at the company)?

    I'd start reading link below, if I was you, but I am going to put a figure of 3K payment, if you qualify (2 weeks per year + 1 week limited to €600).

    Also not sure of the exact rules on tax due on redundancy also these days.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/redundancy/


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ WhyTheFace


    ForestFire wrote: »
    I'm no expert on this topic but a few points to note.

    Your only in the company 2 years and 2 months?
    If they left you go a few weeks ago, you would have got nothing!!
    Are other people ion the company being made redundant?
    Do you think the company is in a position to pay over and above statuary redundancies (i.e. how is business in general at the company)?

    I'd start reading link below, if I was you, but I am going to put a figure of 3K payment, if you qualify (2 weeks per year + 1 week limited to €600).

    Also not sure of the exact rules on tax due on redundancy also these days.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/redundancy/

    About 12 middle mgmt made redundant today, mgmt outsourced.

    I will be moving back to my old employer who would be a competitor.

    Is it possible to be paid gardening leave and redundancy?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 72,933 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    A lot of places would give 2 weeks statutory (to a max of €600 per week) per year of service and 4 weeks salary per year of service.

    Back of an envelope calculation would be about €17k, that would be generally tax free.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭ krissovo


    Aim high is a good approach, do you know anyone else who has been made redundant recently maybe see if you can find out what they were offered?

    As a minimum I would expect 4wks per year but 5 or 6 would be ok.
    Gardening leave until September would be nice
    Remove any contractual anti competitor agreements that maybe in your contract

    You get €200k in your lifetime tax free allowance for redundancy


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    Given your salary and the amount of time in the company, any redundancy payment will likely be fairly inconsequential in the greater scheme of things.

    I'd focus your mental energy on deciding what you want to do next. It may be that they would pay for some training in a specific field in lieu of redundancy if you knew there was something that interested you and that might be a better use of 3-6K or whatever you may get. (I'm not sure exactly, I understand 600 is max if mandatory but I know of one person and the company honoured the weekly rate they were on when calculating redundancy.

    Obviously I wouldn't take any more holidays before leaving if you haven't anything booked that you really want to take.
    Being made redundant can create mental challenges in terms of self-confidence, allow yourself some time now to consider how you feel about going back in to the jobs market in this way and what you are going to say in your first interview. You might agree with your current company that the story will be you decided to move on for some reason rather than being made redundant but really is entirely down to your own thought process and how you feel about the whole thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ WhyTheFace


    I don't mean to sound stupid here, but if a company only have to pay 2 weeks per year of service why would they pay any more?

    If they think I will not have the most productive of 3 months ahead might they just pay me for the 3 months and release me? If so, do I still get redundancy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    WhyTheFace wrote: »
    I don't mean to sound stupid here, but if a company only have to pay 2 weeks per year of service why would they pay any more?

    If they think I will not have the most productive of 3 months ahead might they just pay me for the 3 months and release me? If so, do I still get redundancy?

    Because they don't want to appear to their remaining staff that they are penny pinching or being unreasonable if they could afford to pay more.

    Be pragmatic, your argument will be that you can expect to be out of work for a period and have to build up your experience and standing in a new company and that you are not asking to hit the jackpot here, but to get what is reasonable given all circumstances.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ WhyTheFace


    Given your salary and the amount of time in the company, any redundancy payment will likely be fairly inconsequential in the greater scheme of things.

    I'd focus your mental energy on deciding what you want to do next. It may be that they would pay for some training in a specific field in lieu of redundancy if you knew there was something that interested you and that might be a better use of 3-6K or whatever you may get. (I'm not sure exactly, I understand 600 is max if mandatory but I know of one person and the company honoured the weekly rate they were on when calculating redundancy.

    Obviously I wouldn't take any more holidays before leaving if you haven't anything booked that you really want to take.
    Being made redundant can create mental challenges in terms of self-confidence, allow yourself some time now to consider how you feel about going back in to the jobs market in this way and what you are going to say in your first interview. You might agree with your current company that the story will be you decided to move on for some reason rather than being made redundant but really is entirely down to your own thought process and how you feel about the whole thing.

    I am returning to my old job, I had agreed to this last week and was planning on handing in my notice.

    Then notified today of redundancy. Extremely fortunate, just want to get the most from redundancy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ WhyTheFace


    Because they don't want to appear to their remaining staff that they are penny pinching or being unreasonable if they could afford to pay more.

    Be pragmatic, your argument will be that you can expect to be out of work for a period and have to build up your experience and standing in a new company and that you are not asking to hit the jackpot here, but to get what is reasonable given all circumstances.

    The company is not in a strong position financially so they won't care about being seen as penny pinchers.

    Am I right in thinking if I am put on gardening leave I lose my 15 days annual leave?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,657 ✭✭✭ screamer


    Because they don't want to appear to their remaining staff that they are penny pinching or being unreasonable if they could afford to pay more.

    Be pragmatic, your argument will be that you can expect to be out of work for a period and have to build up your experience and standing in a new company and that you are not asking to hit the jackpot here, but to get what is reasonable given all circumstances.

    They won’t pay anymore so as not to set a precedent for future redundancies. I’d not expect anything more than statutory. If you do get more that’s a bonus.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    screamer wrote: »
    They won’t pay anymore so as not to set a precedent for future redundancies. I’d not expect anything more than statutory. If you do get more that’s a bonus.

    I know for a fact of companies who have.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    WhyTheFace wrote: »
    I am returning to my old job, I had agreed to this last week and was planning on handing in my notice.

    Then notified today of redundancy. Extremely fortunate, just want to get the most from redundancy.

    Don't tell them you have a new job lined up if you haven't already told them.
    Have you given your new (old) company a start date?

    Factor that in to your thought process, if you do want to take time off, I would suggest doing so between the roles rather than starting in new job and then taking time a couple months later but that's just a personal preference.

    If the company is tight for money and you've only been there a short time, you may be limited to just the statutory and given your salary range, that really only equates to a couple of weeks income.


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ WhyTheFace


    If they offered me redundancy next week do they still have to pay the 3 month's notice period in my contract?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Graham


    screamer wrote: »
    They won’t pay anymore so as not to set a precedent for future redundancies. I’d not expect anything more than statutory. If you do get more that’s a bonus.

    It's not at all unusual for companies to pay over and above the statutory minimums, particularly common in larger multinationals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ WhyTheFace


    I am going to take the worst case scenario and assume I will get paid statutory which will be 2 x 2 + 1 = 5 weeks x 600e = €3k

    But I am legally entitled to stay in the company for 3 months and paid in full.


    If they felt I would not be engaged and there is a risk of me going to a competitor after could I suggest they just pay me the 3 months and I leave with immediate effect. In which case, would I lose redundancy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭ athlone573


    WhyTheFace wrote: »
    I am going to take the worst case scenario and assume I will get paid statutory which will be 2 x 2 + 1 = 5 weeks x 600e = €3k

    But I am legally entitled to stay in the company for 3 months and paid in full.


    If they felt I would not be engaged and there is a risk of me going to a competitor after could I suggest they just pay me the 3 months and I leave with immediate effect. In which case, would I lose redundancy?

    They still have to pay you your notice as per your contract and any accrued holiday, on top of statutory (that's the bare minimum)

    Many places (particularly if unionised) will pay up to 4 or 5 weeks per year on top of that. Ask around (quietly) what others have been getting. Whatever you do don't hand in your notice before you know the package they're offering.

    Redundancy is untaxed (up to certain limits) which is another reason to hang on for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    WhyTheFace wrote: »
    I am going to take the worst case scenario and assume I will get paid statutory which will be 2 x 2 + 1 = 5 weeks x 600e = €3k

    But I am legally entitled to stay in the company for 3 months and paid in full.


    If they felt I would not be engaged and there is a risk of me going to a competitor after could I suggest they just pay me the 3 months and I leave with immediate effect. In which case, would I lose redundancy?

    Yes.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ WhyTheFace


    athlone573 wrote: »
    They still have to pay you your notice as per your contract and any accrued holiday, on top of statutory (that's the bare minimum)

    Many places (particularly if unionised) will pay up to 4 or 5 weeks per year on top of that. Ask around (quietly) what others have been getting. Whatever you do don't hand in your notice before you know the package they're offering.

    Redundancy is untaxed (up to certain limits) which is another reason to hang on for it.

    100% won't hand in my notice in.

    I just want to get out of there as quickly as possible with as much as possible.

    I need to start my new job in a month or so, so will tell them I am not interested in an alternative, lower paid position and for them to come up with a package.


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ WhyTheFace


    Yes.

    Ok, but it would still be worth it.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,575 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cdeb


    WhyTheFace wrote: »
    If they offered me redundancy next week do they still have to pay the 3 month's notice period in my contract?
    I would assume so if it's a contractual term that either side has to give three months' notice.

    It would probably be common enough that at least part of that is gardening leave because you'll get to a stage where you're just moping about.

    Just be careful with the new job - it does sound like you've timed things very well, but you don't want to give them a reason to say "Ah sure you were leaving us in six weeks anyway; that's all we're going to pay you". It'd be hard for them to make that argument (I presume the redundancy offer is formally documented?) but worth keeping in mind anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    WhyTheFace wrote: »
    Ok, but it would still be worth it.

    If you got payment in lieu of notice rather than 3k payment? Yes, definitely it would.

    Another advantage of this is that it doesn't appear on your file as having received redundancy at any point up to now and makes it easier to explain to future employers that you left of your own volition rather than feeling you have to 'justify' your being made redundant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭ Darc19


    My guess is it's a tech or other specialist company that is doing the farm out of certain positions.

    The bigger companies have almost set a standard of 2-4 weeks in addition to statutory.

    So I suspect €20-25k Inc holiday.

    Ask them if you can leave early (it would be unpaid)


  • Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭ athlone573


    If you got payment in lieu of notice rather than 3k payment? Yes, definitely it would.

    Another advantage of this is that it doesn't appear on your file as having received redundancy at any point up to now and makes it easier to explain to future employers that you left of your own volition rather than feeling you have to 'justify' your being made redundant.

    I don't think there's any stigma attached to having been made redundant. It's pretty common actually.

    If you haven't already, I would avoid quoting personal details in case your employer might be reading this, you never know.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,575 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cdeb


    athlone573 wrote: »
    I don't think there's any stigma attached to having been made redundant. It's pretty common actually.
    Agreed. Also not sure what file it would appear on? Especially if there's no gap on your CV, I wouldn't think twice about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,475 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    athlone573 wrote: »
    I don't think there's any stigma attached to having been made redundant. It's pretty common actually.

    If you haven't already, I would avoid quoting personal details in case your employer might be reading this, you never know.

    Not that's there a specific stigma associated with it, but it can be useful in some instances to avoid it.

    For example, this OP has already agreed to returning to where they worked previously. They may have interviewed for a role there and spoke in a particular manner about why they wanted to do so.

    If their employer hears they were made redundant or it was on the cards, they may doubt how enthusiastic they are to come back in to the company. It's not serious, I wouldn't expect they'd withdraw the offer or anything like that but just that it could be better to have your new boss think that you are as motivated to work there as you told them you were.
    But I agree, there isn't a general stigma associated with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,334 ✭✭✭ Masala


    A lot of places would give 2 weeks statutory (to a max of €600 per week) per year of service and 4 weeks salary per year of service.

    Back of an envelope calculation would be about €17k, that would be generally tax free.

    6 weeks redundancy.... don’t think that’s too common.

    Also remember ... payment of your notice and holidays will probably go thru your Salary and be Taxed. Not usually tax free.... so be careful if u told otherwise.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    OP I’m in a MNC that’s in rude health but as a result of an acquisition and subsequent restructuring some mid-level employees were made redundant.

    The package was 3 weeks per year worked which included the statutory provision rolled up into it.

    Not great to be honest.


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