I have just been offered redundancy..

cdeb

Masala wrote: »

Also remember ... payment of your notice and holidays will probably go thru your Salary and be Taxed. Not usually tax free.... so be careful if u told otherwise.

Will definitely be taxed. Though not sure why anyone would expect otherwise.

jimmycrackcorm

WhyTheFace wrote: »

If they offered me redundancy next week do they still have to pay the 3 month's notice period in my contract?

Yes, they are obliged to pay this but it should be factored into the redundancy payment, but you should ask HR about the impact as part of the consultation period. Also, your annual leave due will be included as part of this, as those days will be included in the notice period and not added on. They may require you to work it out so you would end up having to work two months and an additional week out of that.

Not many jobs provide gardening leave, only those where there is a risk of shedding critical information to a competitor.

Congratulations on the redundancy, it's always nice to get some money tax-free.

I once got a redundancy that was around the same time I was due an annual bonus. The company accountant suggested lumping it into the redundancy and that was a nice saving of > 50% on tax for me.

Calahonda52

WhyTheFace wrote: »

100% won't hand in my notice in.

I just want to get out of there as quickly as possible with as much as possible.

I need to start my new job in a month or so, so will tell them I am not interested in an alternative, lower paid position and for them to come up with a package.

You are trying to ride three horses here:
you are contactually tied for three months.
you want to start the new job in month, with a direct competitor.
You want to max out the redundancy.

Is there anything in your contract about working for a direct competitor?

Masala

cdeb wrote: »

Will definitely be taxed. Though not sure why anyone would expect otherwise.

Have see cases where employees didn’t work their notice and somehow thought that all monies owed would be tax free in their ‘redundancy’......

jimmycrackcorm

WhyTheFace wrote: »

100% won't hand in my notice in.

I just want to get out of there as quickly as possible with as much as possible.

I need to start my new job in a month or so, so will tell them I am not interested in an alternative, lower paid position and for them to come up with a package.

Do you not also have to give three months' notice?

You can ask if you can leave with redundancy in a month's time, by suggesting for example that you are now totally demotivated. But if they think you are doing so because you have a job lined up, then it's a saving for them to not have to pay you that.

By law, there has to be a consultation period, but the company will already know what they are going to offer so you could try to push the process as quickly as possible by saying you will accept and ask how soon you can go.

gordongekko

krissovo wrote: »

You get €200k in your lifetime tax free allowance for redundancy

That's not exactly true so don't take your tax advice off the internet.

WhyTheFace

Calahonda52 wrote: »

You are trying to ride three horses here:
you are contactually tied for three months.
you want to start the new job in month, with a direct competitor.
You want to max out the redundancy.

Is there anything in your contract about working for a direct competitor?

Surely irrelevant if they are letting me go?

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Do you not also have to give three months' notice?

You can ask if you can leave with redundancy in a month's time, by suggesting for example that you are now totally demotivated. But if they think you are doing so because you have a job lined up, then it's a saving for them to not have to pay you that.

By law, there has to be a consultation period, but the company will already know what they are going to offer so you could try to push the process as quickly as possible by saying you will accept and ask how soon you can go.

This is what I am thinking.

EMail them to say I will consider alternative positions as part of consultation period but ask them from the outset what their redundancy package is.

The longer they drag it out the more salary they have to pay me surely?

WhyTheFace

WhyTheFace wrote: »

Surely irrelevant if they are letting me go?

Not necessarily. It depends on how the contract is worded. The employer would have to seek an injunction, and the courts are reluctant to give them, and I'd imagine they'd be wary of stopping a redundant employee from working elsewhere.



On the other hand, the wording of a contract might also be taken in court as covering both being employed by a competitor AND seeking employment with a competitor. So even in a redundancy situation, a company could find themselves on solid ground if they were in a position to demonstrate that an employee had sought work with a competitor before their redundancy was announced.


So no, not entirely irrelevant.

F1ngers

WhyTheFace wrote: »

There is a 3 months notice stipulation in my contract

WhyTheFace wrote: »

I need to start my new job in a month or so,

Just curious as to how this will work.

Irish_rat

This could go terribly wrong, I'd hold off on the new job and get that redundancy package first.

ari101

I'd go into the consultancy with... 'Disappointed but I don't think the alternative suits, so if you can come up with a reasonable offer, it may be better if I just move on'.

Polite and friendly and see what they offer.

Then maybe use getting out early with notice paid (so you can 'focus on the future') as a negotiation option, instead of asking for more weeks per year, or other perks, etc.

Do not tell then you have something lined up.

Technically notice pay, contractual bonus, annual leave, etc. can't be treated as tax free redundancy, but on your salary, 3 months pay might be better than an extra couple of weeks tax free, given the limited service, if they are not being generous.

If a suddenly generous over and above statutory offer materialises then maybe it might be worth asking them to let you go early and maybe even call it quits on part of the notice pay.

Remember you are stressed by the situation and find it difficult to continue working with the end looming etc. etc.

Seen all these tactics used by former colleagues to their advantage on departure.

WhyTheFace

ari101 wrote: »

I'd go into the consultancy with... 'Disappointed but I don't think the alternative suits, so if you can come up with a reasonable offer, it may be better if I just move on'.

Polite and friendly and see what they offer.

Then maybe use getting out early with notice paid (so you can 'focus on the future') as a negotiation option, instead of asking for more weeks per year, or other perks, etc.

Do not tell then you have something lined up.

Technically notice pay, contractual bonus, annual leave, etc. can't be treated as tax free redundancy, but on your salary, 3 months pay might be better than an extra couple of weeks tax free, given the limited service, if they are not being generous.

If a suddenly generous over and above statutory offer materialises then maybe it might be worth asking them to let you go early and maybe even call it quits on part of the notice pay.

Remember you are stressed by the situation and find it difficult to continue working with the end looming etc. etc.

Seen all these tactics used by former colleagues to their advantage on departure.

Yes, this sounds like a plan.

I have no intention of leaving on bad terms, so maybe just be upfront and say it is better for both if I exit sooner rather than later.

Am I right in thinking I would be paid (and taxed) for the outstanding annual leave not taken?

ari101

WhyTheFace wrote: »

Yes, this sounds like a plan.

I have no intention of leaving on bad terms, so maybe just be upfront and say it is better for both if I exit sooner rather than later.

Am I right in thinking I would be paid (and taxed) for the outstanding annual leave not taken?

Yes anything earned for the year up to your official last day, less any days taken, is legally yours.

helimachoptor

Op, get your payment, get your notice, offer to do a couple of weeks or even a month of handover and sail into the sunset.

WhyTheFace

Was told by HR that I had to wait until the end of the consultation period of 30 days before redundancy would be offered.

I have about 4 weeks annual leave left so, if I can get away with it, I will accept redundancy at end of month, give one month's notice and then take 4 weeks annual leave.

Boss has already said he suspects I'll be going back to my old employer and gave me a spiel about intellectual capital theft so he probably won't want me hanging around for too long!

C3PO

Am I the only one that thinks that the OP should hand in his notice and go to his new job as he initially intended to? Apart from it being the “right thing to do” it is the scenario that is least likely to get messy!

WhyTheFace

C3PO wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that the OP should hand in his notice and go to his new job as he initially intended to? Apart from it being the “right thing to do” it is the scenario that is least likely to get messy!

I have worked hard for two years in this company for a new owner to come in and say he is outsourcing the entire mgmt structure. He insulted me by saying both a few weeks ago and on the day of notification of the change "you've got a future with this company, you are clearly strong on such and such" and then said I had various options if I wanted to stay.. these options were insulting if I'm honest and he clearly wants to cut costs and probably only wants to hold on to me as he knows I'll likely return to my old boss. (I'm returning on a higher salary than what I am on with my current boss).

So I think it is only right I try to be paid something in return.

In reality, if it does start to get messy then I will review the situation and may indeed just walk away. But I think it is too early to adopt that attitude. Why make it easy on them?

If redundancy was an easy process for employers you can be sure we would see a lot more of it. Not that I am saying there are not plenty of genuine cases which are needed to ensure the financial stability of a company.

mugsymugsy

C3PO wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that the OP should hand in his notice and go to his new job as he initially intended to? Apart from it being the “right thing to do” it is the scenario that is least likely to get messy!

Yep only one.

Tell me how

C3PO wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that the OP should hand in his notice and go to his new job as he initially intended to? Apart from it being the “right thing to do” it is the scenario that is least likely to get messy!

It probably would be cleaner and the funds involved are likely quite small but I think the OP is on fairly sound ground given their explanation to your post and having read that I'm inclined to agree with them that 'the right thing to do' is to look out for their own best interests in closing this chapter of their career.

dashoonage

C3PO wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that the OP should hand in his notice and go to his new job as he initially intended to? Apart from it being the “right thing to do” it is the scenario that is least likely to get messy!

As a plumber from Tallaght once said, get in , get paid, get out.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Not necessarily. It depends on how the contract is worded. The employer would have to seek an injunction, and the courts are reluctant to give them, and I'd imagine they'd be wary of stopping a redundant employee from working elsewhere.



On the other hand, the wording of a contract might also be taken in court as covering both being employed by a competitor AND seeking employment with a competitor. So even in a redundancy situation, a company could find themselves on solid ground if they were in a position to demonstrate that an employee had sought work with a competitor before their redundancy was announced.


So no, not entirely irrelevant.

"Non compete" clauses are nonsense/ a myth in the event of redundancy. Being ' made'to work out the contractual period is also a bit of a non entity. As OP said earlier productivity would be at floor level. Redundancy overrides any 'non compete' clause....day after you get the cheque you're your own man. Companies HAVE tried to enforce non-competes but the "let go" employee always wins..... what court could promote unemployment over work??? The OP here holds all the aces......only question is how much €€€€ the cheque is for

krissovo

C3PO wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that the OP should hand in his notice and go to his new job as he initially intended to? Apart from it being the “right thing to do” it is the scenario that is least likely to get messy!

Its quite a common scenario and a great lesson in never burn your bridges and maintain your networks. You can sense quite often that there is trouble brewing and naturally you put the feelers out for other opportunities.

0ph0rce0

I worked for a company for about 13 years not so long ago. Tightest bastards you can imagine. We were 100% sure we would only get 2 weeks stat and maybe 1 week on top.

Ended up giving us 5 weeks on top of the 2 so 7 weeks in total per year.

Place was shocked.

Hold on and see what happens.

WhyTheFace

I think the fact that the owner rang me today on the pretense of checking to see how I was doing after him dropping the bombshell and then swiftly changing the conversation to "intellectual capital theft" and "things could get messy" already has him revealing himself.

I will just document that and see how this unfolds!

krissovo

WhyTheFace wrote: »

I think the fact that the owner rang me today on the pretense of checking to see how I was doing after him dropping the bombshell and then swiftly changing the conversation to "intellectual capital theft" and "things could get messy" already has him revealing himself.

I will just document that and see how this unfolds!

They cannot do anything if you follow your company policies, do not download anything remotely that relates to IP, dont email any attachments unless you have to for your role and be careful what you print.

If you are made redundant in my company you go onto a special watch list and a security report is sent to management daily.

WhyTheFace

krissovo wrote: »

They cannot do anything if you follow your company policies, do not download anything remotely that relates to IP, dont email any attachments unless you have to for your role and be careful what you print.

If you are made redundant in my company you go onto a special watch list and a security report is sent to management daily.

I won't be made redundant for another 30 days

Tell me how

WhyTheFace wrote: »

I think the fact that the owner rang me today on the pretense of checking to see how I was doing after him dropping the bombshell and then swiftly changing the conversation to "intellectual capital theft" and "things could get messy" already has him revealing himself.

I will just document that and see how this unfolds!

Dig out your contract and an employee handbook (if it exists) and familiarise yourself with just what exactly you have signed up to.

And also, even though I probably don't need to say it, make sure not to find yourself in any physical location or on any part of the company network where questions might be asked about what you are doing there.

Daisy03

screamer wrote: »

They won’t pay anymore so as not to set a precedent for future redundancies. I’d not expect anything more than statutory. If you do get more that’s a bonus.

I was made redundant recently. We got 2 weeks statutory redundancy plus an additional 4 weeks per year of service. Health insurance was paid for 3 months after I left. I will also get my pro rata bonus even though the payout will be around 6 months after I finished. I also got a retention bonus of a couple of grand when I signed the redundancy agreement.

In my last year we knew the redundancy might be coming so my boss encouraged me to do a course to add it to my CV. The cost was around 2k and work paid 75% of it.

We also got the ususal career consultants in to us along with independent tax advice.

ted1

C3PO wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that the OP should hand in his notice... !

More than likely

WhyTheFace

Daisy03 wrote: »

I was made redundant recently. We got 2 weeks statutory redundancy plus an additional 4 weeks per year of service. Health insurance was paid for 3 months after I left. I will also get my pro rata bonus even though the payout will be around 6 months after I finished. I also got a retention bonus of a couple of grand when I signed the redundancy agreement.

In my last year we knew the redundancy might be coming so my boss encouraged me to do a course to add it to my CV. The cost was around 2k and work paid 75% of it.

We also got the ususal career consultants in to us along with independent tax advice.

Sounds like that was a great place to work, fair play to your previous employer!