emigration

listermint

CageWager wrote: »

Anyone under the age of 35 who is single with no kids is crazy to stay in Ireland. Hard to see anything going in the right direction - rising cost of living with stagnant wages.

I recommend people get more creative with their choice of destination than the usual Oz/NZ/Canada thing. Lots of fabulous countries in Asia and Latin America where you can have an excellent standard of living.

Stagnant wages ???


All the statistics disagree with your headline.

Canyon86

I'm looking at transferring to an internal job abroad possibly Switzerland or US for a year or two

The past year or so of lockdowns has given me the itch to explore the world more

Long term I would see myself in Ireland

CageWager

listermint wrote: »

Stagnant wages ???

All the statistics disagree with your headline.

The ESRI must have their facts wrong

"A combination of stagnant wages and higher housing costs have left young workers in Ireland financially worse off than their parents, according to a study (May 2021) by the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI)."

"The study found there has been “widespread stagnation in earnings growth” since the 2008 financial crisis, with average earnings for those born in the 1980s no higher from age 25 to 35 than for those born in the 1970s."

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/stagnant-wages-and-expensive-housing-leave-young-people-in-ireland-worse-off-than-parents-1.4560760

ILoveYourVibes

I wouldn't consider going outside of the EU. Not unless you already have your visa set up and a proper job. I know far too many in limbo stuck in a catch 22 situation. They are there legally but on temporary visas. They can't get proper jobs without residency ...but they can't get residency without getting nominated by the province (canada) which is hard without a decent job.

PeggyShippen

Hamachi wrote: »

100%.

OP, it’s relatively easy to emigrate these days. Do your research, choose a country where you skill set is valued, secure your visa, book your ticket and go. There’s no need to start a thread denigrating Ireland.

One thing emigration does produce is a sense of perspective. You’ll quickly realize that no country is utopia and that Ireland, despite its flaws, is a relatively nice place to live.

It’s not productive to whine incessantly about this country. It’s also slightly depressing for those of us who are committed to making this country a better place. So please make your plans to emigrate and execute on them. I’m sure your family and close friends will miss you. The other 7 million or so people on this island - well it won’t be creating a void in our lives.

First time iv seen someone use the population of Northern Ireland and Ireland together to make a point about life in Ireland. Isn't N.I. part of the UK and a totally different country.

PeggyShippen

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Arnhem is a bridge too far for me

You could always try 'Market Gardening'....

PeggyShippen

PeggyShippen wrote: »

First time iv seen someone use the population of Northern Ireland and Ireland together to make a point about life in Ireland. Isn't N.I. part of the UK and a totally different country.

He said Island. Not Ireland. Perhaps read again the post, and consider why he used different paragraphs/lines.

PeggyShippen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He said Island. Not Ireland. Perhaps read again the post, and consider why he used different paragraphs/lines.

I know he said Island...I get what he said. Its just more of this creepy push for Unification. 10 years ago people wouldnt have dreamt of saying the population of the whole Island to make a point about living in Ireland. Wait until the Unioniosts get forced into a united Ireland and a bombing campaign starts. We ll have cheap housing then..

Wanderer78

BenDover2020 wrote:

So, when all this is over and the country is on its knees (again) and we're expected to pay higher taxes and save the day (again) and with no real chance of owning our own home due to Gov policy from the last time. what are peoples plans?

Government ideologies are starting to fail dramatically, its very likely the government will fall quicker than expected, there's also no need for the higher taxes at all, all these issues are resolvable with new thinking, we re just waiting for ffg to move on, to get cracking on it, so hang tough

Hamachi

PeggyShippen wrote: »

I know he said Island...I get what he said. Its just more of this creepy push for Unification. 10 years ago people wouldnt have dreamt of saying the population of the whole Island to make a point about living in Ireland. Wait until the Unioniosts get forced into a united Ireland and a bombing campaign starts. We ll have cheap housing then..

Lol you’re reading way too much into a throwaway comment. The standard of living is pretty similar across the entire island, hence the 7 million comment.

Hate to disappoint you, but I don’t have a sinister plan to force assimilate unwilling unionists..

ulster

Witchie wrote: »

Just landed myself a job in Malaysia so I can get back to Kuala Lumpur in the next month or so. I have lived there for almost 4 years and miss it like mad.

While my wage is crap by Irish standards it's more than enough to live comfortably there.

Planning on getting a condo like this in this building, across the road from the Petronas Towers for about €400 a month with rooftop pool etc. Sky Suites

Been back in Ireland since November and don't think can take much more. Such a rip off for everything.

And Malaysia is 4th best country for expats according to Internations.

It's good for a few years definitely, but you wouldn't want to raise a family in that place with the shocking racial inequality and all

I know Ireland's expensive but we don't have half the problems they have.

Witchie

ulster wrote: »

It's good for a few years definitely, but you wouldn't want to raise a family in that place with the shocking racial inequality and all

I know Ireland's expensive but we don't have half the problems they have.

I am in a different part of my life, I have raised my kids, they have their own lives and I love living out there.

Sure, like everywhere, there are issues but I have yet to meet nicer, more friendly people and I love the climate, the lifestyle and the buzz of the city.

I can only imagine returning to Europe to live if my kids decide to raise any future grandchildren there.

RulesOfNature

If you’re 29 or under and you want to grind it out here, you are either delusional or a masochist. Ireland is no place for young, ambitious people. Any Irish that ever became anything did it outside of Ireland. Or they had a cousin who works in RTE

Timmyr

I think its all in the eye of the beholder, it really depends how you're spending your time and what part of the country etc

Personally I am glad I left Ireland as I have a better life here in NZ, but Ireland is certainly not a kip (except Longford, that is a kip)

Cookie_Monster

Wages in NZ may be lower but after tax income is higher, in my experience anyway at the levels I earn.

Housing stock in NZ is also terrible, cold damp uninsulated houses are the standard and I certainly would not buy a house here and am looking forward to no longer renting a POS house and moving into our newly built way above spec house. So you are paying way more for inferior stock unless you build new to European standards rather than local ones.

this is your average urban rental rental https://www.realestate.co.nz/4017958...scentgrey-lynn

to be fair, thats an Auckland rental and price, the regions are more reasonable. I'm paying $490 per week for this: https://harcourts.co.nz/Property/946173/NP7758/22b-Havelock-Place

Hamsterchops

BenDover2020 wrote: »

emigration.

Emigration can be temporary or permanent, either way there's no harm in emigrating & getting off this small rock, getting out there and smelling the roses. Its the same as somebody born in a small town in the States who packs their bags, leaves home heading for the big smoke, heading off to foreign climbs, to a big metropolis, totally foreign to the way they were raised in their little town.

Anyway, many people who emigtmrate come home in the end with a wealth of knowledge and experience, only to settle back here on the old sod.

Mass emigration seems to happen in waves, every two or three decades we leave in swarms, sometimes its the Government's fault, sometimes it's just a mood that captures the youth. Off to the US, Canada, England, New Zealand, Australia or wherever...

Hamachi

RulesOfNature wrote: »

If you’re 29 or under and you want to grind it out here, you are either delusional or a masochist. Ireland is no place for young, ambitious people. Any Irish that ever became anything did it outside of Ireland. Or they had a cousin who works in RTE

This is total BS. I work for a company full of Irish people, who are very well paid for what they do. None of them have cousins working in RTÉ as far as I am aware.

There’s tens of thousands of people earning very good livings in industries like financial services, tech, or pharma across this country. They provide plenty of scope for young, ambitious people to advance in their careers and to earn a very good living.

All is takes is getting off your ass to acquire the skill set to work in these roles. It’s easier to whine that Ireland is a kip with no prospects though, isn’t it?

Wanderer78

Hamachi wrote:

All is takes is getting off your ass to acquire the skill set to work in these roles. It’s easier to whine that Ireland is a kip with no prospects though, isn’t it?

With rapidly rising wealth inequality, this is becoming significantly harder for younger generations to achieve

Hamachi

Wanderer78 wrote: »

With rapidly rising wealth inequality, this is becoming significantly harder for younger generations to achieve

Sure. There are barriers to entry. However, there are several pathways to attaining those qualifications outside traditional universities.

I personally know one guy who’s 25/26, who started in a PLC course after school before transitioning to the local IT, where he got a diploma and degree. He now has a well paid engineering role.

I’m delighted for him. I mentored him when he was an intern and he told me about his background. Basically, his parents hadn’t two beans to rub together. The opportunities are there if you have the drive to pursue them.

HBC08

Opportunities are there for anyone who wants them in Ireland.
The same can't be said for the majority of counties in the world.

pgj2015

Hamachi wrote: »

Sure. There are barriers to entry. However, there are several pathways to attaining those qualifications outside traditional universities.

I personally know one guy who’s 25/26, who started in a PLC course after school before transitioning to the local IT, where he got a diploma and degree. He now has a well paid engineering role.

I’m delighted for him. I mentored him when he was an intern and he told me about his background. Basically, his parents hadn’t two beans to rub together. The opportunities are there if you have the drive to pursue them.

You don't even need qualifications to be honest. Im well educated, I have levels 7, 8 and 9 qualifications but I set up a business that anyone could without the degrees and diplomas. Now my education comes in handy at times as my level 8 is in Business but I don't think it is necessary.

Its a great country for starting a business I think, all you need is a bit of get up and go, and some cop on.

cnocbui

BenDover2020 wrote: »

So, when all this is over and the country is on its knees (again) and we're expected to pay higher taxes and save the day (again) and with no real chance of owning our own home due to Gov policy from the last time. what are peoples plans?

For me it just feels like there is nothing for us here now due to complete miss management and a horrible unlevel playing field with all the news of the vulture funds recently. This country is rotten to the core and it will only get worse. My options are probably Canada or New Zealand as I have some friends over there from the last mass emigration.

So what are everyones plans?

I have had intentions to emigrate that pre-date Covid by years. Current plan is to sell my property and then move to New Zealand. Bit hard to get in there at the moment, but shifting property takes time, so hard to time it.

cnocbui

Northernlily wrote: »

I take it many of the pro emigration posters have never actually lived and worked abroad?

We have it pretty good here. Not the best, but far from the worst. Well paid job opportunities in abundance, nice climate and scenery to boot. Lots of culture on our doorstep.

Now if only we sorted out public transport, insurance and the rental market we could be a top class country!!!

This is the third country I have lived in and I can't wait to get out.

Hamachi

cnocbui wrote: »

This is the third country I have lived in and I can't wait to get out.

That’s fair enough. Sometimes a country just doesn’t chime with you and it’s time to move on. I lived in Australia for a year. Didn’t particularly like it or the people and moved back to Europe.

It’s good that you have a plan to move on and will execute on it. There’s nothing worse than listening to somebody festering in a country they dislike, but refusing to change their circumstances.

Wanderer78

Hamachi wrote: »

Sure. There are barriers to entry. However, there are several pathways to attaining those qualifications outside traditional universities.

I personally know one guy who’s 25/26, who started in a PLC course after school before transitioning to the local IT, where he got a diploma and degree. He now has a well paid engineering role.

I’m delighted for him. I mentored him when he was an intern and he told me about his background. Basically, his parents hadn’t two beans to rub together. The opportunities are there if you have the drive to pursue them.

yes there are exceptions to the rule, and indeed, best of luck to them, but its also important to realise, generational differences are now so great, they simply cannot be compared. many younger generations are actually getting stuck in low paid jobs, even with good level qualifications, these same folks are also getting trapped in regards out failing housing situation, they simply cannot advance in their lives, due to these issues.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yes there are exceptions to the rule, and indeed, best of luck to them, but its also important to realise, generational differences are now so great, they simply cannot be compared. many younger generations are actually getting stuck in low paid jobs, even with good level qualifications, these same folks are also getting trapped in regards out failing housing situation, they simply cannot advance in their lives, due to these issues.

Perhaps, but the problem is that people get stuck believing that they need to remain within a certain industry.

I had a similar experience, in that I first landed into an industry with a rather low salary ceiling. I stuck it out for a while, but eventually, I shifted a few times, until I moved into an industry with greater scope for advancement. I also picked up a range of professional certifications (not university/college based) which was what got me into these positions.

If you are unwilling to develop yourself, then the only person you can blame is yourself. There are heaps of free courses online, which can provide some amount of accreditation, only requiring a minor cost to supply the certificate. There's government and local organisation funded courses that people can sign up for, which can provide the basis for shifting into other areas of work.

The point is that there are options for everyone.. the issue is that many people get stuck in a rut, and have little interest in digging themselves out of it.

sarajose

Was sad listening.

PommieBast

cnocbui wrote: »

This is the third country I have lived in and I can't wait to get out.

Ireland is also my third country. Most of the 8 years I've been here are great, but both Dublin itself and my expectations for post-Covid are different from 2013-2018.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps, but the problem is that people get stuck believing that they need to remain within a certain industry.

I had a similar experience, in that I first landed into an industry with a rather low salary ceiling. I stuck it out for a while, but eventually, I shifted a few times, until I moved into an industry with greater scope for advancement. I also picked up a range of professional certifications (not university/college based) which was what got me into these positions.

If you are unwilling to develop yourself, then the only person you can blame is yourself. There are heaps of free courses online, which can provide some amount of accreditation, only requiring a minor cost to supply the certificate. There's government and local organisation funded courses that people can sign up for, which can provide the basis for shifting into other areas of work.

The point is that there are options for everyone.. the issue is that many people get stuck in a rut, and have little interest in digging themselves out of it.

moving around is nearly always good, but some simply dont want to. we also need to remember, life isnt just as simple as do this that and the other thing, theres enormous amounts of complexities in peoples lives, no two lives can truly be compared. well done to you, but just be mindful of others, our lives are all truly different, we dont actually have all the same opportunities in life.

life is stressful enough for people, people want to start families, live life, etc etc, people dont want to be continually studying.

the reality is, we dont actually have all of the same opportunities in life, these are simply facts, many people struggle at the early stages in our educational system, many of these folks leave at an early stage, never to return, due to these negative experiences

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

moving around is nearly always good, but some simply dont want to. we also need to remember, life isnt just as simple as do this that and the other thing, theres enormous amounts of complexities in peoples lives, no two lives can truly be compared. well done to you, but just be mindful of others, our lives are all truly different, we dont actually have all the same opportunities in life.

life is stressful enough for people, people want to start families, live life, etc etc, people dont want to be continually studying.

the reality is, we dont actually have all of the same opportunities in life, these are simply facts, many people struggle at the early stages in our educational system, many of these folks leave at an early stage, never to return, due to these negative experiences

Sacrifice is often required if you want something better than what you have.

I lived in 6 different towns in Ireland before I eventually left Ireland itself. I moved around because that was where the jobs were. I certainly didn't want to live in most of those places, but I recognised short term (a few years) pain for long term benefits.

You can say that everyone has different circumstances, but the truth remains that, in Ireland, there are a wide range of opportunities for personal/career development. If people choose not to avail of them, that's on them.

I failed my first year at college (not university). Failed computer science, and then, moved to Business studies, where I struggled for the next three years, failing my exams often.. eventually graduating with a diploma, not a degree. I returned over a decade later to get my degree, then the honors component, and then the Masters... So, I completely understand the difficulties that people face, because I went through many of them myself. There are far more opportunities now in Ireland, than when I went through it myself... also a hell of a lot more tolerance and patience.