Not Guilty by reason of Insanity READ OP FIRST

Immortal Starlight

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

No her 3 children’s lives are the most important thing.

Will your posts bring them back?

randd1

randd1 wrote: »

Probably the right verdict given her extreme mental state. At the very least, she should spend a long time in psychiatric care as she's clearly a serious danger to herself and others.

That being said, if she were a man I'd have no doubt there would have been a guilty verdict.

Fathers have also been found insane in similar circumstances

BabysCoffee

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

I definitely do not agree with this verdict. She should have been found guilty.

The judge who gave guidance to the jury would disagree with you

maxsmum

Curse These Metal Hands wrote: »

We need to try to understand why these types of crimes keep happening.

We need better mental health supports in Ireland.

I think mental health services can only work with what patients tell them. It said multiple times in this case that she never disclosed her true suicidal / homicidal feelings to the medical profession. It sounds like she had plenty of involvement with mental health services.

gibgodsman

I don't think most her understand the law, she was never going to be found guilty because simply put she is insane, and she has been found insane, she will spend the rest of her life in a mental institution where she belongs, Jail isn't suitable for people like her

She could never have been found guilty of murder due to the fact anyone with a brain could tell she was bat**** crazy

Curse These Metal Hands

CrabRevolution wrote: »

There's a pretty obvious reason Hawe was vilified and this case is the opposite, and it's not that we've become more sensitive as a nation....

I do remember on a note he left he wrote that the family would be too impacted by his death and he had to take them too. This was apparently down to toxic masculinity.. Almost identical to the reasoning Deirdre Morley offered.

Many people claimed the level of planning involved was proof he was sane too.

Immortal Starlight

Deleted User wrote: »

Will your posts bring them back?

Why would they?

spookwoman

Oranage2 wrote: »

If the father did it he'd be a monster, that's why I've to put my feelings aside and label her a monster too

To smother / stangle a person takes time and to do that 3 times takes a special kind of monster.

Seeking help knowing something was wrong and then regretting and wanting to turn back time to me means she knows the difference between what's right and what's wrong and should have been charged with murder.

namloc1980

gibgodsman wrote: »

I don't think most her understand the law, she was never going to be found guilty because simply put she is insane, and she has been found insane, she will spend the rest of her life in a mental institution where she belongs, Jail isn't suitable for people like her

She could never have been found guilty of murder due to the fact anyone with a brain could tell she was bat**** crazy

That is not at all certain yet. The judge is going to review the next steps on the 31st May and an updated report from the Central Mental Hospital.

piplip87

She wrote to note apologising about the murders and left a note on the door asking the husband to call 911. She also tried to kill the kids the day before.

Not guilty by reason of insanity infers that the person was not aware of the difference between right and wrong. Surely an apology note backs up the fact that she know it was wrong.

The similarities between this case and the Alan Hawe murders are there for all to see. I wonder if he survived would he be found not guilty by reason of insanity?

maxsmum

gibgodsman wrote: »

she has been found insane, she will spend the rest of her life in a mental institution where she belongs,

well, she was found insane at the time she committed the murders.
She will be released when she is no longer deemed a risk, and the reports mentioned she responded very well to treatment soon after the incident, so she could be released tomorrow in theory.

SEPT 23 1989

I don't have much sympathy for a triple murderer

The Raging Bile Duct

gibgodsman wrote: »

I don't think most her understand the law, she was never going to be found guilty because simply put she is insane, and she has been found insane, she will spend the rest of her life in a mental institution where she belongs, Jail isn't suitable for people like her

She could never have been found guilty of murder due to the fact anyone with a brain could tell she was bat**** crazy

Why do you think she's going to spend the rest of her time in a mental institution? In her testimony she talked of being put onto new medication after she was arrested that seems to have stop her psychosis completely. Medication that they were able to proscribe her once they knew the full extent of her mental health issues - something she had been keeping hidden from everyone - including her psychiatrist - because of the shame she felt.

spookwoman

spookwoman wrote: »

To smother / stangle a person takes time and to do that 3 times takes a special kind of monster.

Seeking help knowing something was wrong and then regretting and wanting to turn back time to me means she knows the difference between what's right and what's wrong and should have been charged with murder.

She was.......

namloc1980

Whatever about the younger 2 but after killing them she picked up the eldest lad from school, bought him his lunch in a shop, then took him home and killed him. Completely pre-meditated.

volchitsa

Curse These Metal Hands wrote: »

At least Ireland is slowly starting to understand the seriousness of mental illness. Heartened to see no character assassinations in the papers this time. Alan Hawe was found to be severely mentally ill by leading psychiatrist Dr. Kennedy but that didn't stop some disgraceful articles being written. People on here were determined to reject his opinion because "evil." We need to try to understand why these types of crimes keep happening.

We need better mental health supports in Ireland.

How do you diagnose someone after their death?

Infini

gibgodsman wrote: »

I don't think most her understand the law, she was never going to be found guilty because simply put she is insane, and she has been found insane, she will spend the rest of her life in a mental institution where she belongs, Jail isn't suitable for people like her

She could never have been found guilty of murder due to the fact anyone with a brain could tell she was bat**** crazy

It's just horrific that this could have been prevented had there been intervention or facilities to take her in before this happened. She was known to be having difficulties but it got worse and intervention wasn't taken sooner. We badly need an overhaul in the whole mental health system and approach, the amount of junkies and that I see around town for example screams at how badly the country fails at taking these kinds off the street and getting them help so for someone like this to get intervention sooner is a shocking failure.

RIP to the poor kids.

BPKS

StevenToast wrote: »

This was an awful case...3 beautiful children robbed of their lives...

If the father had committed this crime, i wonder would it be the same outcome?

Awful tragedy..RIP to those 3 little kids.

I doubt it.

There mood around the story would be more towards anger rather than sympathy.

volchitsa

volchitsa wrote: »

How do you diagnose someone after their death?

About as reliably as you do before it, if the results of allowing these people access to vulnerable children is any evidence

spookwoman

maxsmum wrote: »

well, she was found insane at the time she committed the murders.
She will be released when she is no longer deemed a risk, and the reports mentioned she responded very well to treatment soon after the incident, so she could be released tomorrow in theory.

Can you fully trust her to keep taking the meds and to tell the truth to her psychiatrists after what she has done. She lied to her family and psychiatrists.

Curse These Metal Hands

volchitsa wrote: »

How do you diagnose someone after their death?

By studying a decades worth of counsellor's notes and having a distinguished career in the field of psychiatry.

maxsmum

spookwoman wrote: »

Can you fully trust her to keep taking the meds and to tell the truth to her psychiatrists after what she has done. She lied to her family and psychiatrists.

She can be released on certain conditions, like taking injection of the meds every month.

But no, of course, there's no certainty with anything. Psychiatrists/psychologists aren't psychics.

yosser hughes

CrabRevolution wrote: »

There's a pretty obvious reason Hawe was vilified and this case is the opposite, and it's not that we've become more sensitive as a nation....

what's the obvious reason? How is this case the opposite? If the premise is that both were insane, how are the cases different? You'll need to explain your reasoning there.

Alan Hawe didn't hang round for a trial but if he did, he may well have had the same verdict as today.

Section 6 of the Criminal Insanity Act, 2006 I think is where to look.

lawred2

So; does she end up committed now or what?

xzanti

I notice a lot of news pages on FB have disabled comments on the story this afternoon.

A good choice I think.

She should never be released from whatever psychiatric hospital she goes to.

Suckit

Horrible to have happened, but it may shine a light on depression and how it can actually affect people.
I don't think anybody can truly judge her without understanding how her mind was.
In any case, I would say that everyone affected by this would have a long road ahead of them. I can't imagine she will ever be able to live a normal life again. I guess many many years of therapy and counselling, and when she comes to realise exactly what it is that she has done, many many more years of the same, and probably heavy medication.
Hopefully her husband will be able to get back to some sort of normal life.

Immortal Starlight

shadyslimshady wrote: »

Disgusting comment, no wonder suicides are rampant across ireland with attitude like yours.

Hopefully you never walk in on a family member who overdosed on pills and slit their wrists as they felt life wasn't worth living.

Prior to this they hadn't showered in six months and only left bed to use the bathroom.

Mental health services are terrible in Ireland and do you honestly think this women was in a fit state when she killed her kids. She was obviously psychotic and in a very bad place.

It’s not a disgusting comment. What’s disgusting is what she did 3 times to her own children.

Say my name

If this was 70 years ago.
The justice issued would be the death penalty.

Nowadays you can have a parent murder two children. Go to school pick up a third.
Bring them home. Murder them too.
Then they attempt to take their own life.
Are resuscitated.
Goes to court. All the details are recalled perfectly by that parent.
The jury are instructed by judge and defence to find that parent not guilty by reason of insanity.
The jury brings out that verdict.

That parent then goes to a psychiatric ward for psychologists to pick and proke at.

That's all. Nothing else.

The Raging Bile Duct

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I don't have much sympathy for a triple murderer

There's someone I know quite well that had a psychotic break, related to trauma. They made it out the other side through hospitalisation and without causing any lasting harm to themselves or others but it would be a source of anguish to them. They don't recognise the person they were or how they thought they way they did - it's completely foreign surreal to them now because it made perfect sense to them when they were in the midst of it.

I have sympathy for everyone affected by this tragedy. It's horrible.