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So UFOs aren't a theory anymore - but we still don't know what they are

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  • You're trolling at this stage.

    Military incidents with multiple independent confirmation methods (visual, infrared and radar) which the US Intelligence community considers a "matter of national security" are "painted glass" according to you...





  • Don't accuse me of trolling thanks, and no need to distort what I wrote.

    Any situation where the US military can't explain adequately what might be in it's airspace is a "matter of national security". If the US can't identify what could be a e.g. new type of Chinese drone in their airspace, they will of course be concerned.

    There are millions of flying objects positively identified around the globe daily; aircraft, missiles, meteors, weather phenomena, drones, experimental craft, etc, etc. In that, there's a considerable probability of situations and incidents where the object cannot be positively identified.





  • it would be naive to think our planet is the only one to contain life in the universe.





  • I fully agree. I believe there's a possibility we could even discover basic life (e.g. bacteria, microbes) within our own solar system. Likewise, outside our solar system, considering the astronomical number of planets within the "habitable" zone around their own stars, I believe it's quite possible the universe is relatively teeming with life. Potentially there could even be intelligent life.

    The issue is interstellar travel. As a race we are eons away from that, many believe we will destroy our planet long before we get even close to achieving travel between the stars, the technological leap is so great, almost to the level of having to bend physics and the rules of the universe. Therefore, if some intelligent "alien" life out there not just mastered interstellar travel but were visiting this planet from other star systems, they would have to be so technologically advanced we could barely fathom it. With even just a fraction of that technology, if they wanted to destroy us, it would be simple, and if they wanted to remain completely concealed, that would also be simple. Therefore it's a bit of a stretch to believe they just keep barely getting "caught" visibly flying around and each time it just happens to be blurry and oblique enough not to make a positive ID :)

    Post edited by Dohnjoe on




  • This always bugged me about aliens as an explanation for UFOs.

    According to believers, aliens out in the universe were around as the same time as us and close enough to travel to us and have the technology to travel interstellar distances. Then they also somehow discovered that we are here from lightyears away, then wanted to expend the resources to travel those lightyears to visit us. In this discovery they somehow learn that they can't just reveal themselves to us directly for reasons, so they know they need to stay hidden. Yet at the same time, they aren't able to continue their study from their home system, so they have to travel lightyears in their ships to do so.

    Then when they arrive in our solar system they decide that rather than park well out of our ability to detect them, they regularly come into our atmosphere. And for some reason despite being super technologically advanced, they don't do anything to cloak themselves from something as primitive as radar? And they also start appearing in visual range of people? And sometimes they even just forget to turn off the ship's running lights?

    And then their goal seems to be to fly down to Earth and zoom around in weird patterns in a specific area where only a very small amount of people would see them.

    I know you can't really apply human logic to something not human, but...?



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  • Doesn't mean they are flying to our planet and arming their cloaking devices that cause photos to turn out blurry.





  • I think too much TV/sci-fi/movies have switched people's brains off about this a bit.

    Perhaps we are being visited regularly by extra terrestrials but the notion that they keep leaving little tantalising blurry clues is just getting silly, and involves a lot of wishful thinking. It's too "Bigfoot" for me, just conveniently out of focus every time.





  • The last line basically renders your whole post pointless. Why are you assuming that they are trying to conceal themselves but failing? What evidence are you basing that assumption on?

    My opinion is that to understand these phenomenon we need a frame of reference that is beyond our comprehension at the moment. I think we'll learn more in the future basically, and not from the US government.

    For me there are only a few knowns here. We know that pilots saw "something" and that it has physical mass because pilot sightings have been verified with radar signatures which can't detect things that don't have a physical mass. So it isn't weather or some form of energy and that's all we really know atm.





  • Well if they aren't trying to conceal themselves why aren't the reports of alien ships hanging out just in full daylight view of a whole city? How come reports of aliens only seem to happen in isolated areas?

    The usual response of believers is that they are trying to conceal themselves.

    If aliens wanted to do this, it would be trivial for them. Either by staying very far away and observing from a distance. Or if they have to enter the atmosphere for some reason, by using technology to mask themselves. (Now we're getting quite good at cloaking ourselves from radar using current earth technology.) Or at the very least turning off their running lights.

    Why do believe that aliens ships only seem to be spotted in isolated areas rather than heavily populated places with huge amounts of witnesses?

    If you are arguing that the motivations of aliens are unknowable and beyond our ken, then why assume that they want to visit us in the first place?





  • I don't have answers to your questions. All I know are the things I stated. The sightings that I consider legitimate that have been verified by radar were made by pilots so it's unlikely they would be near cities or people at ground level. When we consider the facts that pilots witness accounts have been backed up by radar signatures indicating the presence of physical objects I have to wonder what your opinion on these phenomena are? All you do is ask questions that don't have answers.



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  • Well if you want my opinion you can just ask, there's no need to get accusatory about it.

    My opinion is that these phenomenon are probably not aliens. There are a great many other possibilities that are far more likely that haven't been discounted. And at the same time the alien explanation just doesn't make a whole bunch of sense.

    Again if aliens are going to the bother of avoiding people seeing them in great numbers this implies they are trying to conceal themselves. If they are trying to conceal themselves then it would be trivial for them to avoid being detected by radar as well.





  • What great many other possibilities? Since we've ruled out weird weather events or other forms of energy and all other things that don't have physical mass. I'm not saying it's definitely aliens, because that isn't verified, but with the facts we have at the moment, what other logical explanation is there? How else could these objects end up in our atmosphere and be documented following human aircraft in the way that they have? For what it's worth I thought all the alien stuff was a joke until a few months ago.





  • I'm not as familiar with the specifics of the incident you're referring to. Dohnjoe has more of a knowledge of those.

    In my experience though when people claim "there's no other explanation" it rarely is the case. There's usually a lot of other explanations that exist that they are discounting.

    To my knowledge the new reports that everyone is buzzing about don't rule out any explanations, just say that they can't determine the explanation.


    I wouldn't consider "aliens" a logical explanation as again, it doesn't logically make sense for them to do what is being claimed. It doesn't make sense for them to be detected by radar if they are trying to conceal themselves. If they aren't trying to conceal themselves it doesn't make sense that they are only observed in remote areas and in edge cases.





  • The incident I'm referring to is the one widely publicised by the US government and viewed on youtube millions of times with a tic tac like object in it, and a few others. This is basically a round up Leaked radar video shows UFOs swarming U.S. Navy ship (msn.com)

    And this doesn't say much but it's worth a read Prelimary-Assessment-UAP-20210625.pdf (dni.gov)





  • Ok. We know that it can't be aliens then as it doesn't make sense for them to be detected by radar.





  • Why not? Presumably if it is aliens they came here in some sort of vehicle? Vehicles show up on radar. As I've linked, we have pilot sightings backed up by radar signatures recorded in the same location as the sightings.


    Maybe it's something like this that we just don't know about yet Boeing X-51 Waverider - Wikipedia

    But I find it hard to believe we can build things that can move in the ways recorded.


    What do you think it is? You just keep repeating that it's not aliens.





  • But I've already explained this in my previous post.

    If they did come here (you're assuming that they can and would want to) why would they need to enter the atmosphere and enter into radar range? If they can detect us from lightyears away, there's no need for them to get that close. It would be easy for them to just part at high orbit and observe from there. We have the technology to get high resolution satellite imagery now. Aliens who've mastered interstellar travel would have been better technology to do this.

    Additionally, now we have technology that allows us to reduce radar signatures. Aliens who can travel lighyears and have anti gravity technology probably also can do this too.


    So if they are showing up on radar, it doesn't make sense for them to be aliens.





  • I'm not arsed responding until you say what you think it is (not what it isn't). Read the links I have provided and give an opinion. I'll nail my colours to the mast I think it's aliens.





  • But I did give you my opinion. And there's no need to be so accusatory and confrontational, you can just ask me what I believe.

    I don't know for sure what the real explanation is. There are many things that it could be. But I think that aliens is a very very low possibility because there is no positive evidence for such a thing and that explanation doesn't actually make any logical sense as per my post above.

    As for what it could be here's a good thread that goes though the video and discusses it:

    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/uss-omaha-ufo-uap-radar-video.11762/page-7

    On that page one poster gives a summary that I think is a reasonable explanation that is far more likely than aliens.

    To recap and compile some of the key findings in this thread (statements 1 through 7) in support of the likeliest hypothesis (statement 8):


    (1) The proximity of the mid-July 2019 USS Omaha UAP sightings to the San Clemente UAV/drone base


    (2) USS KiddUSS Rafael PeraltaUSS RussellUSS John Finn and cruise ship Carnival Imagination also reporting seeing swarms of "drones"/"UAV" through 14-15 July 2019 not far from San Clemente


    (3) The Navy, already in 2017, highlighting the importance of putting new technologies and tactics into fleet experimentation (tests) more quickly


    (4) The USS Omaha navigational radar readings being within the capability parameters of known UAV technology, and probably well within the parameters of cutting-edge experimental UAV capability


    (5) The existence, since 2014, of the classified NEMESIS program which addresses the need "to generate the appearance of a realistic naval force to multiple adversarial surveillance and targeting sensors simultaneously", using, amongst other things, reconfigurable and modular EW payloads, Distributed Decoy and Jammer Swarms (DDJS), effective acoustic countermeasures (CM), and Multiple Input/Multiple Output Sensor/CM (MIMO S/CM) for false force generation to both above and below water sensors


    (6) The USS Omaha basic navigational radar (also commercially available) being a vulnerable target for false fleet signatures when using cutting-edge experimental electronic warfare technology.


    (7) The ability to surprise, distract and overwhelm the enemy, including during fleet exercises, being the main purpose of drone swarms designed for tactical deception


    (8) Taken together, single out as the likeliest hypothesis a Navy electronic warfare test using drone swarms and signature management conducted as part of a broader mid-July 2019 Navy fleet experiment.


    I wouldn't go as far as saying the USS Omaha footage is explained. But if indeed classified US capability was being tested, the Navy would obviously not be in a position to confirm such a hypothesis.


    However, we have collated sufficient data to arrive at the likeliest explanation with reasonable confidence.


    P.S. There are precedents. We know from declassified CIA documents that many experimental USAF capabilities such as the SR-71 Blackbird were initially reported as UFOs when first spotted. The Pentagon had no qualms going along with that smokescreen.

    What do you think of this explanation? Is it possible? Is it reasonable?





  • Since camera phones became a thing no sightings of aliens . That’s my problem with we are being visited by aliens



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  • Can you link a specific case (or cases) that you firmly believe is an "alien" craft?





  • Why don’t you read the French report for specific examples? But what do those silly scientists from the elite military engineering schools know!

    Your heuristics won’t allow you to engage in any meaningful conversation. Your sole aim is to dismiss any observations as trite. Good scientists keep an open mind and do not make pronouncements such as yours until they have done an appropriate literature review and analysed the data in a systematic fashion, considering all explanations





  • Is there a specific case in particular that you find is very conclusive? If so, please link it.

    My point is that I've come across cases, then looked them up on skeptic forums and there have been plausible explanations. As of yet I haven't seen anything I'd consider quite conclusive.






  • +1


    It's only ever the yanks who seem to encounter UFO, extraterrestrial life possibilities and all manner of other unexplained/unexplainable sh!t. It's as iff the aliens only choose to land in the US or buzz American airspace. Not only do the Russians and Chinese have large airforces but so do India, Pakistan, Iran, Malaysia, Indonesia, combined European NATO wing, Israel, Australia, hell even many African and South American countries have respectable air forces. Never a single sighting by these guys. More American bollocks.





  • Wow, how many family and friends have you lost through believing in this conspiratorial bunkem ?



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