Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

drogon.

combat14 wrote: »

ireland can have a 15% tax rate ..
doesnt mean we have to collect it

Well exactly, Ireland has a tax rate of 12.5% - But some multination companies could easily be paying 1% or 2% at the moment, once you add all the tax breaks they get.

combat14

theboringfox wrote: »

Disgusting behaviour from IPAV. They know full well this would just drive demand and prices higher. Shameless bunch.

only have their own commissions in mind

Mad_maxx

John1648 wrote: »

Thank you Bass Reeves!

I am a cash buyer in fact. The 8 % ROI also sounds appealing to me.

It is just I do not Balbriggan so well.

How does that town seem to you for a longer term investment.

The apartment is in a very good condition, 70 sq.m, a bit of sea view, parking space. Seems better of an option than buy to let in Ballymun or Citywest. The apartment may be appealing for families to rent. The current tenants will be there in any case, but just wondering in the longer run.

It is quite close to airport with all the jobs there etc.

id buy in one of the good parts of Finglas , rents are strong relative to purchase price , a three bed can be bought for circa 260 k and rents fetch circa 1800 for same house

Mad_maxx

Bass Reeves wrote: »

So far we have gone through two hoops

That property was not available to anyone other than an investor. It has tenants in situ.

That was incorrect

No bank will give you a mortgage to do that though.

That was incorrect.

And you are incorrect as well. Yes you have to give tenant required notice period. And as I said the mortgage lenders require higher deposits for apartments. In general they still require no higher than normal deposits from investors. The only difference in a BTL is a slightly higher interest rate. 40 years ago when buying a house as the legal process was protracted you had to go on bridging.

That apartment was buyable by single person on a decent income or a couple on below average incomes. Yes it was not straight forward but lenders would be flexible as I have always found. In large urban area there is psychological barriers to moving.

Traditionally people from larger urban area's were shielded from emigration and did not have to move to find work like people from the west f Ireland. I think this creates an issue with urban dwellers. there is no inalienable right to live and work where you grew up or next to your parents

a lot of properties with tenants in situ appear to be sold at auction but from what ive observed , the discount is not near big enough to offset the risk and job of removing tenants afterwards

PropQueries

Mad_maxx wrote: »

id buy in one of the good parts of Finglas , rents are strong relative to purchase price , a three bed can be bought for circa 260 k and rents fetch circa 1800 for same house

That would make a good investment if you could sign one of those long-term lease agreements with the council. But, I think it's fair to assume that the current market rents in Dublin are now primarily dictated by what the Government is willing to pay out through HAP etc.

There was a landlord who wrote into the Irish Times last week and said the following:

"I am a landlord and I recently advertised a house for rent. I was looking for €2,750 and got a line of Hap applicants a mile long, all with €2,500 allowance from Dublin City Council. I was totally confused how someone on no income could afford to rent a €600k house."

That letter shows to me that even landlords are now questioning current rent levels and their sustainability.

How long before Pascal says stop, just because of its impact on Government spending going forward, especially as he didn't seem to have any real answers to the outcome of those G7 talks this weekend outside that it wouldn't be fair on Ireland etc. if the global tax reforms go against countries like Ireland.

There may be some serious discussions over the Summer on these payments and I think they may be stopped or they will find other solutions in the next couple of months.

Link to landlord letter to Irish Times here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/housing-crisis-i-do-not-really-know-what-i-am-saving-for-1.4576917

Hubertj

Villa05 wrote: »

Good point, but is it an effective minimum rate that is being pushed

It has to be on the effective rate otherwise it’s pointless. There are a number of EU countries with higher headline rates than Ireland’s but a lower effective rate. Ireland headline and effective rates are pretty much the same.

I said it would be 15% months ago because I was told that by the tax lawyers in work.

L1011

Bass Reeves wrote: »

So far we have gone through two hoops

That property was not available to anyone other than an investor. It has tenants in situ.

That was incorrect

No bank will give you a mortgage to do that though.

That was incorrect.

And you are incorrect as well. Yes you have to give tenant required notice period. And as I said the mortgage lenders require higher deposits for apartments. In general they still require no higher than normal deposits from investors. The only difference in a BTL is a slightly higher interest rate. 40 years ago when buying a house as the legal process was protracted you had to go on bridging.

That apartment was buyable by single person on a decent income or a couple on below average incomes. Yes it was not straight forward but lenders would be flexible as I have always found. In large urban area there is psychological barriers to moving.

Traditionally people from larger urban area's were shielded from emigration and did not have to move to find work like people from the west f Ireland. I think this creates an issue with urban dwellers. there is no inalienable right to live and work where you grew up or next to your parents

Its not incorrect. No bank will give you an owner occupier mortgage without vacant possession. A BTL mortgage has rather a lot different than interest rates

Bass Reeves

Mad_maxx wrote: »

a lot of properties with tenants in situ appear to be sold at auction but from what ive observed , the discount is not near big enough to offset the risk and job of removing tenants afterwards

If you require the apartment for yourself there is no risk attached to removing tenants. It the one rules they cannot get around. As well at present tenants know that if you have to evict them and that they refuse they can forget about getting into another rental as any LL will look for a ref off previous LL

Graham

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you require the apartment for yourself there is no risk attached to removing tenants.

That's not even in the same timezone as accurate.

The risk is the tenant refuses to move out and you spend the next 2 years getting them out.

John1648

Mad_maxx wrote: »

id buy in one of the good parts of Finglas , rents are strong relative to purchase price , a three bed can be bought for circa 260 k and rents fetch circa 1800 for same house

Agree...

However such is my budget, in cash btw.

Would you advise against Balbriggan as a place for buying to let?

propertyseeker

Villa05 wrote: »

That kind of commentary has 06 written all over it

If owning us the luxury option, how come renting is the far more expensive option

Sustainability!




If it's a global issue the crash when it comes will be crashier to borrow a phrase from 08



The very definition of pressure

I get same feeling as 07/08.
If prices keep rising, society will be in trouble. I would not be surprised at a crash in a few years.
Right now is very uncertain perhaps most uncertain times since WW2 so why do people think prices keep going up when global economy in big trouble.

cubatahavana

Maybe this is something stupid that I’m thinking. Recently bought a new build and have met many, many people that have told me that they’d NEVER buy a new build. Are we sure then that building more is the answer?

cubatahavana

cubatahavana wrote: »

Maybe this is something stupid that I’m thinking. Recently bought a new build and have met many, many people that have told me that they’d NEVER buy a new build. Are we sure then that building more is the answer?

The obvious question is, why did so many people tell you they wouldn’t buy a new build?. I’ve lived in two, can’t say I had any issues, in fact, in both cases it was handy having builders on the site when we moved in, they were able to quickly rectify the small issues we had.

Smouse156

PropQueries wrote: »

That would make a good investment if you could sign one of those long-term lease agreements with the council. But, I think it's fair to assume that the current market rents in Dublin are now primarily dictated by what the Government is willing to pay out through HAP etc.

There was a landlord who wrote into the Irish Times last week and said the following:

"I am a landlord and I recently advertised a house for rent. I was looking for €2,750 and got a line of Hap applicants a mile long, all with €2,500 allowance from Dublin City Council. I was totally confused how someone on no income could afford to rent a €600k house."

That letter shows to me that even landlords are now questioning current rent levels and their sustainability.

How long before Pascal says stop, just because of its impact on Government spending going forward, especially as he didn't seem to have any real answers to the outcome of those G7 talks this weekend outside that it wouldn't be fair on Ireland etc. if the global tax reforms go against countries like Ireland.

There may be some serious discussions over the Summer on these payments and I think they may be stopped or they will find other solutions in the next couple of months.

Link to landlord letter to Irish Times here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/housing-crisis-i-do-not-really-know-what-i-am-saving-for-1.4576917

I’d be questioning the honesty of that post, especially as HAP max is supposed to be €1300:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/housing_assistance_payment.html

Not saying they’re aren’t exceptions but it’s shocking if it’s the norm to get €2500 towards the insane rent.

cubatahavana

Dav010 wrote: »

The obvious question is, why did so many people tell you they wouldn’t buy a new build?. I’ve lived in two, can’t say I had any issues, in fact, in both cases it was handy having builders on the site when we moved in, they were able to quickly rectify the small issues we had.

I agree, my previous purchase was a new build too in 2007. Just before the crash. They have different reasons, but a lot are afraid of the social housing element.

Smouse156

Current market highlights typical Irish gouging and that famous phrase that a fool and his money is easily parted:

Example, walkinstown, a quasi-ghetto looking for a 21% price gouge in 2 months:

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-5-limekiln-manor-limekiln-road-walkinstown-dublin-12/3268442

Sold for €630k in 2019 and €655k in March 2021 (probably sale agreed in Jan/Feb) and now looking for 795k

https://propertypriceregisterireland.com/?action=search&county=6&property_type=0&date_from=2010-01-01&date_to=2021-06-06&price_from=0&price_to=0&address=Limekiln+manor

If it sells, highlights first point.

drogon.

One really has to question, why would the council actually be buying commercial property in the first place ?

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-property-5459586-Jun2021/

jill_valentine

Speaking of commercial, realised yesterday morning there are people living in an unused - and never occupied since it was built 10 years ago - commercial unit on my street that has the windows painted out. No idea how long they've been there.

Great country altogether.

Himnydownunder

Graham wrote: »

That's not even in the same timezone as accurate.

The risk is the tenant refuses to move out and you spend the next 2 years getting them out.

How does one remove tenants “in situ?” I’ve often wondered when I’ve seen such properties for sale. Also if tenants haven’t been pay rent for a long time, how does the new owner get them out?

Graham

Himnydownunder wrote: »

How does one remove tenants “in situ?” I’ve often wondered when I’ve seen such properties for sale. Also if tenants haven’t been pay rent for a long time, how does the new owner get them out?

RTB -> Court in what can be a long and expensive process if the tenants dig their heels in.

Smouse156

Smouse156 wrote: »

Current market highlights typical Irish gouging and that famous phrase that a fool and his money is easily parted:

Example, walkinstown, a quasi-ghetto looking for a 21% price gouge in 2 months:

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-5-limekiln-manor-limekiln-road-walkinstown-dublin-12/3268442

Sold for €630k in 2019 and €655k in March 2021 (probably sale agreed in Jan/Feb) and now looking for 795k

https://propertypriceregisterireland.com/?action=search&county=6&property_type=0&date_from=2010-01-01&date_to=2021-06-06&price_from=0&price_to=0&address=Limekiln+manor

If it sells, highlights first point.

You are saying a seller should sell for less than the maximum someone is willing to pay? Why?

cubatahavana

cubatahavana wrote: »

I agree, my previous purchase was a new build too in 2007. Just before the crash. They have different reasons, but a lot are afraid of the social housing element.

I'm not worried about social housing at all, but I would prefer not to buy a new build.
No character, small gardens, no chimneys, awful lot of them have no front garden or driveway.
Unless you build your own of course!

cubatahavana

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not worried about social housing at all, but I would prefer not to buy a new build.
No character, small gardens, no chimneys, awful lot of them have no front garden or driveway.
Unless you build your own of course!

What gives a house its “character”? Not all gardens are small and not all second hand gardens are big. I suppose the lack of chimney is due to air tightening and the driveway it depends. I agree that most second hand houses will have driveways and chimneys, but I wouldn’t continue renting or stop buying a house due to those issues. For me, all the renovation involved in a second hand purchase would be horrendous. Different people, different opinions

Hubertj

Smouse156 wrote: »

Current market highlights typical Irish gouging and that famous phrase that a fool and his money is easily parted:

Example, walkinstown, a quasi-ghetto looking for a 21% price gouge in 2 months:

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-5-limekiln-manor-limekiln-road-walkinstown-dublin-12/3268442

Sold for €630k in 2019 and €655k in March 2021 (probably sale agreed in Jan/Feb) and now looking for 795k

https://propertypriceregisterireland.com/?action=search&county=6&property_type=0&date_from=2010-01-01&date_to=2021-06-06&price_from=0&price_to=0&address=Limekiln+manor

If it sells, highlights first point.

I don’t think walkinstown is a “quasi ghetto”.

mcsean2163

Cyrus wrote: »

Let's see how they get on but it gives a decent idea of what employers think makes sense for their business rather than what employees think is good for them.

Agree. If I knew it was taking my staff 1-2 hours per day to do their job, I'd want them to do more..

TheSheriff

Smouse156 wrote: »

Current market highlights typical Irish gouging and that famous phrase that a fool and his money is easily parted:

Example, walkinstown, a quasi-ghetto looking for a 21% price gouge in 2 months:

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-5-limekiln-manor-limekiln-road-walkinstown-dublin-12/3268442

Sold for €630k in 2019 and €655k in March 2021 (probably sale agreed in Jan/Feb) and now looking for 795k

https://propertypriceregisterireland.com/?action=search&county=6&property_type=0&date_from=2010-01-01&date_to=2021-06-06&price_from=0&price_to=0&address=Limekiln+manor

If it sells, highlights first point.

:rolleyes: notions

L1011

drogon. wrote: »

One really has to question, why would the council actually be buying commercial property in the first place ?

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-property-5459586-Jun2021/

To force the future sale and (at least hope to) return it from dereliction.

mcsean2163

We noticed the house we viewed is located beside the water treatment plant.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/springhills-residence-on-c-18-5-acres-ballymore-eustace-kildare-w91-t8k0/4504390

Does anyone know if the water treatment plant in Ballymore Eustace is very smelly/ dangerous to health to live beside?

Amadan Dubh

Finally some movement on the Poolbeg site. In total it could be 3800 homes added to the Dublin 4 peninsula, essentially creating a new village. According to this post planning permission for the first few hundred apartments will be submitted in a few weeks.

I can't imagine planning permission will be hard to get given there is nothing at all in near the site though I suspect the Sandymount Nimbys will be out with their petitions and environmental impact studies, as is their habit.

Ardillaun

What’s the potential for flooding in that Poolbeg development if climate change continues on its current trajectory?