Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

CrazyFish

Revolution 1917 wrote: »

Not agree with that
I saving money for my house in Ireland last 10 years and only couple years left before I will buy house for cash
Believe me or not
The house is not the problem the problem is that too many people want get it for half price.
My mate bought brand new BMW for 70K for cash what could be 20 per cent of his mortgage.Now his BMW parked beside his renting property and he crying he cant afford buy the house.
Say NO to everything for 10 years.What the problem ? Or government has to worry about you just because you want drive BMW and show your friends Iphone for 1200 euros ?

I don't think everyone is going out buying bmw's in fairness. Your one friend sample size does not represent everyone. Everyone's situation is different.

combat14

Revolution 1917 wrote: »

Not agree with that
I saving money for my house in Ireland last 10 years and only couple years left before I will buy house for cash
Believe me or not
The house is not the problem the problem is that too many people want get it for half price.
My mate bought brand new BMW for 70K for cash what could be 20 per cent of his mortgage.Now his BMW parked beside his renting property and he crying he cant afford buy the house.
Say NO to everything for 10 years.What the problem ? Or government has to worry about you just because you want drive BMW and show your friends Iphone for 1200 euros ?

you can save all you like for 10 even 20 years and there is still no gaurantee in this country you will get a house at this rate

combat14

combat14 wrote: »

you can save all you like for 10 even 20 years and there is still no gaurantee in this country you will get a house at this rate

Depends what you want drive.

CrazyFish

CrazyFish wrote: »

I don't think everyone is going out buying bmw's in fairness. Your one friend sample size does not represent everyone. Everyone's situation is different.

When things goes to money everybody situation are the same.

Amadan Dubh

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

It's a very good question; I had a great grandad involved in advocating for tenant rights 100 years ago and to be honest I feel the cause is quite similar 100 years later.

For gods sake

Thomasirl123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not agree with that
I saving money for my house in Ireland last 10 years and only couple years left before I will buy house for cash
Believe me or not
The house is not the problem the problem is that too many people want get it for half price.
My mate bought brand new BMW for 70K for cash what could be 20 per cent of his mortgage.Now his BMW parked beside his renting property and he crying he cant afford buy the house.
Say NO to everything for 10 years.What the problem ? Or government has to worry about you just because you want drive BMW and show your friends Iphone for 1200 euros ?

What the problem?
You've stopped living for 10 years, you might be dead in 10 years so your dependents now have less income to afford rent, in 10 years you might be at peak boom prices, a certain level of debt is financially better than none if used correctly, etc

Bass Reeves

combat14 wrote: »

you can save all you like for 10 even 20 years and there is still no gaurantee in this country you will get a house at this rate

No but he has a plan and a target. He may not succeed but he is trying. There is s large portion of people expecting somebody else to sort there house for them while they live it up. Houses were never easy to buy you had to make scarficed now people expect to be able to buy a house or an apartment in there late twenties or early thirties maybe by themselves without putting any effort into it

John1648

Dear forum participants,

I took into account the comments you have made about Citywest.

Now I am close to sale agreed on 2 bedroom apartment in Balbriggan, very good condition, tenants in situ, rent 1400, price 200 000 EUR (quoted initially at 180 000), Cardy rock view area, close to the sea.

The tenants want to stay for 2 more year.

How does this sound to you as an investment?

I must say there is real frenzy on the market, people getting rid of cash in the anticipation of upcoming hyperinflation, it is a true liquidity tsunami...

Thank you!

Bass Reeves

John1648 wrote: »

Dear forum participants,

I took into account the comments you have made about Citywest.

Now I am close to sale agreed on 2 bedroom apartment, very good condition, tenants in situ, rent 1400, price 200 000 EUR (quoted initially at 180 000), Cardy rock view area, close to the sea.

The tenants want to stay for 2 more year.

How does this sound to you as an investment?

I must say there is real frenzy on the market, people getting rid of cash in the anticipation of upcoming hyperinflation, it is a true liquidity tsunami...

Thank you!

That good investment. ROI is slightly above 8%. If you borrowed 150k the repayments would be sub 850/month. Even assuming drop in rent your should not have to subsidize rental income to cover mortgage. Two year of a tenant in situ is a good option.

People on here complaining about no property available in Dublin. With WFH that apartment was readily available to a single person or young couple buying. It cannot be far from the LUAS.

Thomasirl123

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

What the problem?
You've stopped living for 10 years, you might be dead in 10 years so your dependents now have less income to afford rent, in 10 years you might be at peak boom prices, a certain level of debt is financially better than none if used correctly, etc

He/she hasn’t stopped living for 10 yrs, what nonsense. Is having a new car proof of life?

There is a chance prices will have dropped in 10 yrs, who in 2006 would have envisaged that 15 yrs later house prices would be less in many parts of the country.

Villa05

Revolution 1917 wrote:

Not agree with that I saving money for my house in Ireland last 10 years and only couple years left before I will buy house for cash Believe me or not The house is not the problem the problem is that too many people want get it for half price. My mate bought brand new BMW for 70K for cash what could be 20 per cent of his mortgage.Now his BMW parked beside his renting property and he crying he cant afford buy the house. Say NO to everything for 10 years.What the problem ? Or government has to worry about you just because you want drive BMW and show your friends Iphone for 1200 euros ?

Borrow for an appreciating asset when you can afford it.

The last boom wasn't so bad because your savings could generate the same return from savings on deposit so waiting for the crash was a viable option.

Your BMW buying friend reminds me of the government. in a housing context There buying/leasing Tesla's for social and affordable housing at great cost and completely unsustainable

The difference being there using other people's money, many who struggle to meet their own basic housing cost. They also had considerable stock of like new BMW that they sold to investment funds for peanuts and are now leasing them back

They also have all the key ingredients to build there own at a fraction of the price but instead choose to pull heavily from existing limited stock thereby driving up price and increasing the number of people that need assistance in covering their housing costs.

I wonder who will help out the government of Ireland and on what terms when they go crying to the markets that they can't afford health, education and bloated pensions because they bet the country on property yet again

Thomasirl123

Dav010 wrote: »

He/she hasn’t stopped living for 10 yrs, what nonsense. Is having a new car proof of life?

There is a chance prices will have dropped in 10 yrs, who in 2006 would have envisaged that 15 yrs later house prices would be less in many parts of the country.

Saying no everything for 10 years is living lol

You're talking nonsense. House price might double in 10 years. No one knows but if they can afford rent and savings for 10 years then a10 year mortgage today is very likely better value.

Bubbaclaus

Looking at the latest Property Price Index on the CSO website, it looks like nationally house prices have risen by just 2.3% since October 2018 to March 2021 (an annualised rate of under 1%). In Dublin the March 2021 price is almost identical to October 2018.

I've never seen house prices so static in Ireland.

Ace2007

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

Saying no everything for 10 years is living lol

You're talking nonsense. House price might double in 10 years. No one knows but if they can afford rent and savings for 10 years then a10 year mortgage today is very likely better value.

And if variable interest rates sky rocket how many of those 90% mortgage rate holders are going to be suffering and potentially defaulting.

It’s amazing how many posters put down someone who’s sacrifice things for what they want- too many people want to walk into a palace like house from day one and not have any renovations or anything to do. You can rent and buy cheaply in dublin of you want to - but too many people are afraid of what their peers might say and instead getting in over their head and then can’t afford to save

Ace2007

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Looking at the latest Property Price Index on the CSO website, it looks like nationally house prices have risen by just 2.3% since October 2018 to March 2021 (an annualised rate of under 1%). In Dublin the March 2021 price is almost identical to October 2018.

I've never seen house prices so static in Ireland.

To be fair hardly anyone was buying or selling in 2020, so at at guess I would say this is near zero or negative which drags the period your looking at down

yagan

John1648 wrote: »

I must say there is real frenzy on the market, people getting rid of cash in the anticipation of upcoming hyperinflation, it is a true liquidity tsunami...

What's your strategy for asset and yield depreciation?

Amadan Dubh

David McWillians writing today in the IT again on the property market. This is really dominating his broadcasts the last few months. Perhaps a solution that is a silver bullet to the problem until it is actually implemented. Still, I enjoy the momentum being maintained in mainstream media in relation to the crisis.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/david-mcwilliams-tax-unused-land-and-the-housing-market-will-be-sorted-1.4584239

Tax unused land and the housing market will be sorted

Landlords will bring idle land into use pronto if they face a big cost such as tax

When we look at the housing debacle – not just in Ireland but all over the world – it’s not uncommon for people to argue that, in order to get the housing market going, we need to subsidise it more, give more tax breaks, reduce the costs and that this will bring land into use. All of this sounds plausible, but it’s all too intuitive. The counterintuitive approach suggests that we do precisely the opposite and we will get more land into use. Tax land heavily and more will be used and made commercial than if we don’t tax it. The reason is clear: if the cost of leaving land idle is low, then it will be left unused. If there is a big cost – such as a tax – on idle land, it will be brought into use pronto and the landlord will try to get as much commercial activity on this land as possible to generate the revenue to pay the tax.

Ireland is the least populated country in western Europe, yet we have among the highest land prices. It’s a stitch-up. It is really that simple.

AlmightyCushion

Bass Reeves wrote: »

That good investment. ROI is slightly above 8%. If you borrowed 150k the repayments would be sub 850/month. Even assuming drop in rent your should not have to subsidize rental income to cover mortgage. Two year of a tenant in situ is a good option.

People on here complaining about no property available in Dublin. With WFH that apartment was readily available to a single person or young couple buying. It cannot be far from the LUAS.

That property was not available to anyone other than an investor. It has tenants in situ.

Bass Reeves

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

That property was not available to anyone other than an investor. It has tenants in situ.

Incorrect. You can still buy it and then serve notice to tenant that you require the property for yourself.

Marius34

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Looking at the latest Property Price Index on the CSO website, it looks like nationally house prices have risen by just 2.3% since October 2018 to March 2021 (an annualised rate of under 1%). In Dublin the March 2021 price is almost identical to October 2018.

I've never seen house prices so static in Ireland.

You are right here, there where some sort of stability lasting for the last 3 years in regards to Irish property price. But those would be 2018-2020. I think that stability is gone this year.

propertyseeker

John1648 wrote: »

Dear forum participants,

I took into account the comments you have made about Citywest.

Now I am close to sale agreed on 2 bedroom apartment, very good condition, tenants in situ, rent 1400, price 200 000 EUR (quoted initially at 180 000), Cardy rock view area, close to the sea.

The tenants want to stay for 2 more year.

How does this sound to you as an investment?

I must say there is real frenzy on the market, people getting rid of cash in the anticipation of upcoming hyperinflation, it is a true liquidity tsunami...

Thank you!

Do people really think hyperinflation coming? Will FED/ECB not raise rates?
We plan to buy with max budget right now but market not looking too good, we can't find good property, good area etc.
We have 50,000 cash so we worrying a small bit either we buy something we not happy with in fear or try wait longer but risk losing cash value.

mcsean2163

Ace2007 wrote: »

And if variable interest rates sky rocket how many of those 90% mortgage rate holders are going to be suffering and potentially defaulting.

It’s amazing how many posters put down someone who’s sacrifice things for what they want- too many people want to walk into a palace like house from day one and not have any renovations or anything to do. You can rent and buy cheaply in dublin of you want to - but too many people are afraid of what their peers might say and instead getting in over their head and then can’t afford to save

Why not get the five year fixed? Bragging about having enough to buy in cash is probably not going to endear someone to everyone. Fair play money down but no need to brag, just buy and move on...

Thomasirl123

Ace2007 wrote: »

And if variable interest rates sky rocket how many of those 90% mortgage rate holders are going to be suffering and potentially defaulting.

It’s amazing how many posters put down someone who’s sacrifice things for what they want- too many people want to walk into a palace like house from day one and not have any renovations or anything to do. You can rent and buy cheaply in dublin of you want to - but too many people are afraid of what their peers might say and instead getting in over their head and then can’t afford to save

Why are you quoting me with this BS?
Who's on about variable rates? He/she can get a 10 year fixed interest rate mortgage.

I am not putting anyone down. Your post reads of just an excuse to vent.

Marius34

propertyseeker wrote: »

Do people really think hyperinflation coming? Will FED/ECB not raise rates?
We plan to buy with max budget right now but market not looking too good, we can't find good property, good area etc.
We have 50,000 cash so we worrying a small bit either we buy something we not happy with in fear or try wait longer but risk losing cash value.

Don't think we heading to hyperinflation. But if inflation goes over 2%, ECB likely will raise rates.

yagan

propertyseeker wrote: »

Do people really think hyperinflation coming?

People who remember the 70s and 80s always think a rise in prices is the beginning of a spiral into hyperinflation.

What they always fail to overlook is that they were part of the massive population boom that caused that inflation.

Whenever there's a temporary spike in a commodity like recently with lumber it crypto and gold sellers ramp up their hyperinflation sales pitches.

Amadan Dubh

For me it is quite clear where this will lead for Ireland; staff of MNCs will be able to locate in their home country in order to service the local market rather than needing to be based in Ireland. This never made sense to me why, for example, a Spanish person services Spain, working in Spanish, from Dublin.

The demand for rentals, especially high end corporate lettings and spill off properties, such as short lettings, should soften (to use a fluffy word like how the lobbyists refer to declines in demand and prices) over the coming years. More indigineous industries will need to be invested in which of course is a good thing.

https://www.ft.com/content/a308bbff-5926-47a1-9202-6263e667511e

The G7 advanced economies have struck what they have termed a “historic agreement” on taxing multinationals in a bid to create unstoppable momentum for a global deal.

A communique issued on Saturday showed that the US, Japan, Germany, France, UK, Italy and Canada had found enough compromise both to stop companies shifting profits to low tax jurisdictions and ensure the largest multinationals pay more tax where they operate.

If implemented this would overturn a century of international corporate taxation, where profits are taxed only where companies have a physical presence.

The definition of the largest global companies is still to be ironed out. This part of the deal will require a global accord later this year.

In return for this concession, the US has gained agreement from the rest of the G7 for each country to impose a minimum global corporate tax rate of at least 15 per cent.

This will reduce the incentive for large companies to declare profits in tax havens or low tax jurisdictions such as Ireland because the country in which the company is headquartered will be able to top up corporate tax payments to the global minimum effective level.

Bass Reeves

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

For me it is quite clear where this will lead for Ireland; staff of MNCs will be able to locate in their home country in order to service the local market rather than needing to be based in Ireland. This never made sense to me why, for example, a Spanish person services Spain, working in Spanish, from Dublin.

The demand for rentals, especially high end corporate lettings and spill off properties, such as short lettings, should soften (to use a fluffy word like how the lobbyists refer to declines in demand and prices) over the coming years. More indigineous industries will need to be invested in which of course is a good thing.

https://www.ft.com/content/a308bbff-5926-47a1-9202-6263e667511e

We have gone through a lot of that before it unlikely as it exposes companies to multiple tax location and complicated company returns and tax exposure

yagan

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

For me it is quite clear where this will lead for Ireland; staff of MNCs will be able to locate in their home country in order to service the local market rather than needing to be based in Ireland. This never made sense to me why, for example, a Spanish person services Spain, working in Spanish, from Dublin.

The demand for rentals, especially high end corporate lettings and spill off properties, such as short lettings, should soften (to use a fluffy word like how the lobbyists refer to declines in demand and prices) over the coming years. More indigineous industries will need to be invested in which of course is a good thing.

https://www.ft.com/content/a308bbff-5926-47a1-9202-6263e667511e

Take the case of Pfizer. The above proposal actually changes little when investment in sciences in our education system starting the 1970s provided a steady graduate stream while industrialised nations still pushed car manufacturing as a vote getter, so much so that local tax breaks are needed which has in many cases already reduced the CTR below our 12.5% for their traditional champions.

For those countries voters it may packaged as a success but overall the multinationals now have a lower liability but I can see why they'd do this when many of the major industrials are facing increasing pension liabilities.

Ace2007

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

Why are you quoting me with this BS?
Who's on about variable rates? He/she can get a 10 year fixed interest rate mortgage.

I am not putting anyone down. Your post reads of just an excuse to vent.

Because you replied to the poster laughing at him at making sacrifices for last 10 years - was there any need for that?

AlmightyCushion

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Incorrect. You can still buy it and then serve notice to tenant that you require the property for yourself.

No bank will give you a mortgage to do that though.