The Irish protocol.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672583#Comment_117672583

What bit of THE CEOS OF THOSE COMPANIES WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE TIMESCALE WHILE ACKNOWLEDGING THE NECESSITY OF INCREASED COMPLIANCE implies an issue with supply chains, Blanch?

What bit of, 'that has been acknowledged and actioned' are you having trouble with understanding?

What bit of ANY of that implies that f*cking BRAND LOYALTY is the reason that anything but a ridiculously small number of people are concerned about the NI Protocol? I've acknowledged in previous posts that I accept significant numbers of the Unionist community DO have concerns, but they're not because of different packaging on their practically identical supermarket produce.

And most importantly of all, why are this tiny fraction worth undermining the integrity of the EU for and why is it our responsibility to bend over for them, rather than the responsibility of their own government in Westminster who actually negotiated and agreed to the Protocol?!

As a final point.....how does this connect to your absurdist fantasy that lack of Sainsburys is going to be a significant contributing factor in the event of a border poll?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672648#Comment_117672648

You'll NEVER take 'ar Mallons in this house!

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672695#Comment_117672695

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/uk-wants-new-balance-on-ni-with-eu-as-government-launchesbid-to-rewrite-protocol-40676689.html

"“It is now time to establish a new balance, which both the UK and the EU can invest in, to provide a platform for peace and prosperity in Northern Ireland and allow us to set out on a new path of partnership with the EU.”

He told the Lords the Protocol had resulted in a shortage of goods on supermarket shelves here and resulted in 200 suppliers deciding they would no longer supply to the region. “We have seen difficulties not just on the famous chilled meats issue but on medicines, on pets, on movements of live animals, on seeds, on plants and on many others,” he said.

He also said 20% of all documentary checks conducted on animal-derived products coming into the EU were being conducted in Northern Ireland, a country with a population of just 1.8 million.

“What is worse, these burdens will worsen, not improve over time, as grace periods expire,” he said."

As I said, it is not just about sausages.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672645#Comment_117672645

You are really stretching the meaning of "without external impediment". The explanation of what happens if the North votes to remain in the UK (and that would include any changes being foreseen including an increase in the subvention or more devolution) is not an external impediment to the people of the island of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively, exercising their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a united Ireland, if that is their wish.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672817#Comment_117672817

This is Jamie Bryson level cod constitutional speak.

What are you saying here - that the UK will be able to induce a remain vote with money?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672833#Comment_117672833

I didn't say that the UK would or will, I am saying that the GFA doesn't prevent it. People also rely on the phrase "the power of the sovereign government with jurisdiction there shall be exercised with rigorous impartiality" out of its contextual position in the GFA.

ambro25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672290#Comment_117672290

The EU doesn’t do rash, as a rule…but it *has* started putting the boot in, in very obscure (yet highly-significant) ways, that are so far removed from average John Smith’ every day interests, that they cannot really make for easily-reductive redtop-friendly headlines.

For example, the EU is stalling the UK’s accession to the Lugano Convention, effectively keeping the entire UK legal services industry in commercial limbo. There is very little doubt (i.e. none) that this a purely political move by the EU.

There is an academic question about whether this is being done to pressure the UK in relation to the Protocol (and other Brexit bones of contention), or to give the EU27 legals a free go at landgrabbing legal services market share. Of course, that is far less ‘academic’ a question if you’re a corporate/MMA legal eagle in London…but well.

Personally I think it’s both, exactly like financial services.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672872#Comment_117672872

I agree.

Despite the use of Frost's dubious posturing here, the EU will not respond rashly to it. Frost has designed his rhetoric for the consumption of the gullible and the redtopers. The EU won't fall for that, like some.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672782#Comment_117672782

....Lord Frost is your source?!

Your credibility is in tatters when the Tory propaganda mouthpiece WHO PERSONALLY NEGOTIATED THE AGREEMENT is your source for how Ireland/the EU are somehow responsible.

Christ on a bike, Blanch...get right up the yard with that nonsense.

Next you'll be presenting me with a report commissioned by the Tobacco industry on why smoking isn't really that bad.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117671983#Comment_117671983

Thats a ridiculous interpretation of what you have quoted. If you think that allows the Irish government to take up a position for or against ui but the Uk government aren’t allowed to comment.

total nonsense. The current British government recently said in an interview that they would be campaigning to keep ni in any border poll. No one had any issue with that even the shinners

the Uk would need to lay out what continuation as part of the Uk would mean and that would inevitably influence.

so unworkable as well

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672021#Comment_117672021

You are doing it again. You are claiming only unionists have problems with the protocol.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117673101#Comment_117673101

Boris told you this did he?

Oh dear! 😀

Boris Johnson: The most infamous lies and untruths by the Conservative leadership candidate | The Independent | The Independent

I wonder which way would Lord Frost or Gove or whoever sway wavering voters.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117673119#Comment_117673119

....I'm specifically discussing Unionist concerns; the context of the discussion is those who will actively resist the NI Protocol, or more specifically those who will actively resist the NI Protocol due to the availability of certain brands of produce on their supermarket shelves. I just don't think there are too many people floating around Lenadoon who are outraged that they can't get British sausages.

The number of people from the Nationalist or non-aligned communities who are unhappy with the Protocol is smaller.....and going by the displays by the handful who showed up at your protests, those from a Nationalist/non-aligned background who will actively resist it are of totally negligible numbers.

I, of course understand that not only Unionists have a problem with the Protocol, but they're considerably more likely to; the symbolic but ultimately not important in a practical sense (not to say not important for other reasons) objections I highlighted in a previous post just don't matter to people who aren't of a Unionist persuasion.

If the chips had fallen differently and we were discussing a land border on the island of Ireland, while not only Nationalists would be aggrieved, those aggrieved due to the symbolism would almost exclusively be Nationalists. That wouldn't mean that this symbolism is the only reason people feel aggrieved by the hypothetical border, nor would it mean that only Nationalists are aggrieved by the hypothetical border either.

.....and if some of those feeling aggrieved had the lack of availability of f*cking Superquinns sausages as the primary motivation for their Protests (which they couldn't guarantee would remain peaceful), they'd be idiots too, never mind if that was just a story being sprung about by drug dealers in Armagh who were having trouble getting their supplies up from Dublin.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117673121#Comment_117673121

I am not saying they will. I am saying they can if they wish. You have an awful habit of misrepresenting what people are saying. Just shows weakness of your arguments

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675577#Comment_117675577

Not if they wish to stay within the original spirit of the GFA when Patrick Mayhew promised that the British would stay neutral.

Nobody has ever denied that the British might welch on a deal/promise. Only fantasists would cod themselves again and again that they are honest brokers.

Let them go back on their word, we know who will benefit from that.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675598#Comment_117675598

What nonsense to expect the British to stay neutral. I’m British and I won’t be neutral

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675986#Comment_117675986

The 'British' said they would be neutral officially through their own SoS.

What nonsense to expect them to stick to their word.

As soon as they do break their word...again, we will start counting the votes it will push to a UI. Belligerent Unionists/Loyalists and partitionists might be gullible enough to believe them, nobody else will.

Bring it on.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676002#Comment_117676002

Downcow is conditioned to it.....since the very foundation of his state, his community have listened to the promises of the British government and absolutely believed them......Time and time again they get screwed, but always this time will be different.

Junkyard Tom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676263#Comment_117676263

In many ways he has no choice. The north has been an English dependency for the the vast majority of its existence. Unionists have to believe the lies because the truth is unbearable.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676263#Comment_117676263

You guys love misrepresenting me. I was very clear that they could campaign for there own desire. I am not saying that I and sure that will be maintaining Uk. It is possible they campaign for a UI.

tbh I don’t mind but I do hope the American president comes in and campaigns for Ui as that will have the same impact as Obama campaigning against brexit

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117676325#Comment_117676325

Do you include Donegal in the north?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678157#Comment_117678157

The 'same impact' on whom?

By the way, the reason your government is too chicken to invoke Article 16 and have taken the EU soup all the way along this Brexit process is precisely because the American president has gotten involved and marked their cards.

mariab21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678190#Comment_117678190

100%

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678190#Comment_117678190

This is actually a good thing for the UK - Boris won't see it this way but if donny had won yes they would have gotten a trade deal but my god would he have taken the UK to the cleaners.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678166#Comment_117678166

I doubt in this instance. But you know that.

As Northerly and as North westerly as Donegal is, it's as East as Kells in Co Meath. 'Tis a geographically mismatched place alright.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675598#Comment_117675598

Now, it's within the original spirit of the GFA, I thought posters were quoting parts of the GFA where is was explicitly ruled out. The goalposts are disappearing off into the distance.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679337#Comment_117679337

Who quoted the GFA on this?

We off on the mis-representation two step again blanch?

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679357#Comment_117679357

In fairness to Blanch, I did directly quote the GFA (in conversation with Downcow); I still believe that my reading of the parts I highlighted is correct.

That isn't to say the British government WILL do so (we've seen they're not so great with sticking to their agreements), but I think it would take a VERY generous reading of the GFA to read, 'for the people of Ireland alone to decide' and to think, 'it is fine for the British government to actively campaign for NI to remain in the UK' as Theresa May suggested in 2017.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679574#Comment_117679574

They wont fully implement the GFA and it's ancillary agreements.

If partitionists and their allies in the DUP and other belligerent unionists trust the British that is their own issue.

The SoS assured everyone at the time that the British would remain neutral if they renege on that they will be called out on it.