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Gardai conspire to ignore thousands of reported crimes

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is such a twist of reality it beggers belief.

    Would you like the reality?

    You call 999 because your son won't do his homework. The calltaker logs ALL calls. No matter how stupid, you want Gardai, you get Gardai. What's the category? Dvsa or domestic violence.

    Gardai arrive, kids doing his homework and parent tells ya too go **** off. Gardai inform dispatcher. The call is then transfered to pulse and the investigating garda must now spend time at a computer updating this 'investigation' which must include a callback to the property. Multiple attempts to obtain a statement of complaint and CCTV. In other words, an absolute waste of Garda time.

    So what would happen would be that the Garda at the house would inform the dispatcher that the call is absolutely bull**** and it would be changed to an 'info' call which didn't transfer to pulse.

    You need to remember, the system only has so many categories and the calltaker selects one they think appropriate based on the caller.

    There's no 'I'm a ****ing moron that needs the Gardai to solve minor problems in my life' category.

    Same with 'assault' calls but when you arrive it's a 15 year old brother on 14 year old brother push over the TV remote.

    Or a variety of calls made by drunk people, lunatics, the genuinely mad and piss takers including alien sightings and lizard people reports


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 467 ✭✭ EddieN75


    This is such a twist of reality it beggers belief.

    Would you like the reality?

    You call 999 because your son won't do his homework. The calltaker logs ALL calls. No matter how stupid, you want Gardai, you get Gardai. What's the category? Dvsa or domestic violence.

    Gardai arrive, kids doing his homework and parent tells ya too go **** off. Gardai inform dispatcher. The call is then transfered to pulse and the investigating garda must now spend time at a computer updating this 'investigation' which must include a callback to the property. Multiple attempts to obtain a statement of complaint and CCTV. In other words, an absolute waste of Garda time.

    So what would happen would be that the Garda at the house would inform the dispatcher that the call is absolutely bull**** and it would be changed to an 'info' call which didn't transfer to pulse.

    You need to remember, the system only has so many categories and the calltaker selects one they think appropriate based on the caller.

    There's no 'I'm a ****ing moron that needs the Gardai to solve minor problems in my life' category.

    Same with 'assault' calls but when you arrive it's a 15 year old brother on 14 year old brother push over the TV remote.

    Or a variety of calls made by drunk people, lunatics, the genuinely mad and piss takers including alien sightings and lizard people reports

    The article author claims to have proof of "over 1000 priority one calls which includes domestic violence, assault and burglaries"

    "Senior Gardai believe it may be necessary to initiate disciplinary proceedings against a large number of front line officers who requested cancellation of the calls"

    "Security sources believe the issue has the potential to become a significant problem for Drew Harris"


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    The article author claims to have proof of "over 1000 priory one calls which includes domestic violence, assault and burglaries"

    Indeed he may well have but how many will the author be able to show were actually correctly categorized as such?

    A burglar can end up being the drunk idiot from next door. I already gave examples of assault and domestic calls but I could give many more.

    Neighbours have and shall continue to call domestic cases in that end up being sex, a baby teething or even the tv and that's fine, I'm ok with playing it safe in these scenarios but that should be end of them because they prove to be not crimes at all.

    If within those cases, there's ones that were legit, then fair enough and the Gardai responsible should be disciplined but rank and file pointed all this out when they decided to link the two systems in the name of statistics.

    It won't be a problem for him, he didn't create the stupid system and it's already been amended so calls can't be changed by the dispatchers. Just means more crap on pulse and more Gardai sitting at computers for longer but hey ho, if that's what they want so be it. I never bothered requesting cancelations or changes to category so it won't effect me


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 467 ✭✭ EddieN75


    Indeed he may well have but how many will the author be able to show were actually correctly categorized as such?

    A burglar can end up being the drunk idiot from next door. I already gave examples of assault and domestic calls but I could give many more.

    Neighbours have and shall continue to call domestic cases in that end up being sex, a baby teething or even the tv and that's fine, I'm ok with playing it safe in these scenarios but that should be end of them because they prove to be not crimes at all.

    If within those cases, there's ones that were legit, then fair enough and the Gardai responsible should be disciplined but rank and file pointed all this out when they decided to link the two systems in the name of statistics.

    I added in more information from the article to my post while you were writing this.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    I added in more information from the article to my post while you were writing this.

    So I see, I edited to include it


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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,402 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal


    Is anyone surprised?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,162 ✭✭✭✭ KKV


    Overheal wrote: »
    Is anyone surprised?


    At first, yeah, but then Niner Leprechaun explained the system fairly well, so now it just seems like Gardai being sensible, but someone wanted a sensationalist headline.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,995 ✭✭✭✭ Potential-Monke


    Yeah, when I left in 2016 this was being rolled out outside of the DMR. We didn't have the auto-incident creation linked yet, members had to ring up a certain number to get a civvie to put it on. But unlike the auto-creation, I was able to correctly categorise incidents for the lads out and about, so I removed the BS involved with non-incident incidents. But what niner says is true. I just can't see how you could get away with it tbh. Some mention of whatsapp but fvcked if I'm paying to read the rest of the article.

    No doubt there are some though. When humans are involved, there's always some.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭ 99nsr125


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    Hundreds of frontline gardaí are thought to be implicated in the cancellation of thousands of 999 calls to avoid follow-up inquiries and lessen their workloads.

    Among the calls ignored were domestic violence reports.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hundreds-of-gardai-used-whatsapp-to-avoid-999-calls-bkhst6fzz

    Yeah

    Not surprised in any way


  • Registered Users Posts: 65,402 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal


    KKV wrote: »
    At first, yeah, but then Niner Leprechaun explained the system fairly well, so now it just seems like Gardai being sensible, but someone wanted a sensationalist headline.

    Uh oh did the paper bury this behind the paywall section?

    Either way the use of WhatsApp shouldn’t be approved for regulation use


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,995 ✭✭✭✭ Potential-Monke


    Overheal wrote: »
    Uh oh did the paper bury this behind the paywall section?

    Either way the use of WhatsApp shouldn’t be approved for regulation use

    Yes they did.

    It's not, so I'd imagine the article is leaning towards the members were privately using WhatsApp to avoid work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,542 ✭✭✭✭ Beechwoodspark


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    Hundreds of frontline gardaí are thought to be implicated in the cancellation of thousands of 999 calls to avoid follow-up inquiries and lessen their workloads.

    Among the calls ignored were domestic violence reports.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hundreds-of-gardai-used-whatsapp-to-avoid-999-calls-bkhst6fzz

    Not good


  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭ MyLove4Satan


    Ah sure didn't they dance Jerusalema for us to be sure! The Guards are greash so they are!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You can really see those that read and digest information and those that read a headline and have decided they know enough


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,995 ✭✭✭✭ Potential-Monke


    I would have read more but I'm not paying. Plus, if it was as bad as some are making out, this thread would be on page 400 by now with all the negative Garda stories.


  • Registered Users Posts: 65,402 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal


    I would have read more but I'm not paying. Plus, if it was as bad as some are making out, this thread would be on page 400 by now with all the negative Garda stories.

    And it would be covered by some paper not inside a paywall. Best I can find:

    https://www.fm104.ie/news/fm104-news/garda-commissioner-concerned-over-cancelled-999-calls/
    Commissioner Harris could not provide information on the numbers involved but did say: "What we are concerned about is that 999 calls were cancelled erroneously and there was not a policing response that would have been expected".

    These comments are his first acknowledgments on the extent of the problem.

    Harris added that the investigation "are listening to the actual recordings of the calls and any subsequent radio transmissions that may exist afterwards"

    Commissioner Harris told the authority that he expects the investigation to be completed in two to three months time but measures have been put in place to stop the problem from recurring.


  • Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭ GeneHunt


    This topic got a few more articles (and not all behind paywalls now) posted since the last post here, I saw the below article over the weekend, and then saw new article this morning on the Times, which got me searching, I found this tread since! Looks like there's a lot more going on here then just a few calls about my son won't do his homework!

    Today's article from the Times
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/garda-chief-must-explain-termination-of-thousands-of-999-calls-kh87kph33


    the weekend article

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-commissioner-to-face-questions-over-cancelled-999-calls-controversy-1.4598754

    Also found these articles since

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mothers-desperate-999-calls-ignored-by-gardai-40558928.html

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/garda-failures-respond-999-calls-24306420

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/children-no-help-999-police-garda-inquiry-ireland-gqr0nkd2r


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭ randd1


    This is such a twist of reality it beggers belief.

    Would you like the reality?

    You call 999 because your son won't do his homework. The calltaker logs ALL calls. No matter how stupid, you want Gardai, you get Gardai. What's the category? Dvsa or domestic violence.

    Gardai arrive, kids doing his homework and parent tells ya too go **** off. Gardai inform dispatcher. The call is then transfered to pulse and the investigating garda must now spend time at a computer updating this 'investigation' which must include a callback to the property. Multiple attempts to obtain a statement of complaint and CCTV. In other words, an absolute waste of Garda time.

    So what would happen would be that the Garda at the house would inform the dispatcher that the call is absolutely bull**** and it would be changed to an 'info' call which didn't transfer to pulse.

    You need to remember, the system only has so many categories and the calltaker selects one they think appropriate based on the caller.

    There's no 'I'm a ****ing moron that needs the Gardai to solve minor problems in my life' category.

    Same with 'assault' calls but when you arrive it's a 15 year old brother on 14 year old brother push over the TV remote.

    Or a variety of calls made by drunk people, lunatics, the genuinely mad and piss takers including alien sightings and lizard people reports
    Spot on. The amount of inane mindless crap that Gardaí have to handle is ridiculous.


    The best example I've heard of is one lad reporting his neighbours kids for criminal damage. Pretty serious, right?
    Their soccer ball landed on the flower bed in his front lawn while they were kicking it around in theirs. The eldest kid was 8 at the time. Yet the Guards were called. An utter waste of time.


    I reckon this is the type of stuff that should be completely ignored on Garda's systems. Why should Guards have to do any paperwork for pointless crap like this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Eldudeson


    At least the reaction from Harris is that there's concern and they're investigating.

    Not like the other lad who said it was disgusting that anyone could claim the Guards were anything but perfect. When he made that statement it made me genuinely worried for the Guards to have any oversight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭ Mimon


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    Hundreds of frontline gardaí are thought to be implicated in the cancellation of thousands of 999 calls to avoid follow-up inquiries and lessen their workloads.

    Among the calls ignored were domestic violence reports.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hundreds-of-gardai-used-whatsapp-to-avoid-999-calls-bkhst6fzz

    I found it strange when I called 999 to report a driver that was all over the road and crashed into a hedge after mounting the pavement, went of driving zig zagging down the road. Children around!

    Called the local guards later and they never got any report of it!?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭ GeneHunt


    This is shocking stuff

    Drew was asked on Six One News "Should you resign"

    https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1408118459993661444?s=24

    RTE NEWS
    Harris apologises to domestic violence victims over handling of 999 calls

    IRISH EXAMINER
    Garda boss apologises to domestic abuse victims whose 999 calls were cancelled
    The Garda Commissioner has apologised to victims of domestic abuse who had their 999 calls cancelled inappropriately saying his force “did not provide the standard of service required”.
    The review, which covered the period from January 2019 until the end of October 2020, and focused specifically on Domestic Violence / Sexual Abuse (DVSA) calls, noted an overall cancellation rate for all 999 emergency calls of 14%, or 202,931 calls.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭ Shebean


    Wasn't this about calls, mostly domestic violence being dispatched, but then cancelled by the Garda concerned? If it's par for the course why are the numbers an issue now? How did the Garda know to disregard them as frivolous?
    Is it an individual Garda's decision which 999 call he or she bothers their barney addressing?
    Harris should have apologised and should investigate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭ TallGlass2


    This issue, I can absolutely gaureentee you CAD made it 100x worse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭ Calhoun


    This one has grown legs, representative of the GRA on this morning decrying the innocence of his good members.

    Despite their own data saying they hung up on some calls.

    I don't think anyone from the general public is surprised with apathy and disinterest from this organization.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,541 ✭✭✭✭ Muahahaha


    Theres allegations that Gardai were cancelling 999 calls in order to avoid paperwork
    The commissioner said he had listened to “a couple of dozen” of the cancelled calls, and conceded that some of them had been “harrowing” to listen to. He acknowledged “there are certain outliers” in terms of officers who may have cancelled more calls than others, but added, “we don’t want to rush to judgement”.

    Asked if the review established some calls had been cancelled following coordination within Garda WhatsApp groups to avoid paperwork, Mr Harris said, “It would be wrong to say our minds are closed to the possibility."

    He also admitted “issues” have been noted in terms of the quality of information gathering on 999 calls, with some “addresses recorded incorrectly”, leading to attending gardaí being unable to find the property from which the call came.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40321838.html

    The investigation is on going but so far there were 1,404 calls sent to the garda divisions for detailed scrutiny and they have established a problem in 624 cases. Many of these are related to cases of domestic abuse where it might have been the victims first time calling 999 to report it. There was no follow up by Gardai on these cases.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,356 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    You have to ask what the fûck is going on with the leadership of An Garda Siochana... both the lads in Garda HQ and senior officers in stations..

    I was pretty annoyed when a family member reported a cut and dried crime of a new phone worth over 300 euros... ‘theft’... only to have the Garda go through rigorous efforts to dissuade them from making a formal complaint as nothing probably could or would be done...he threw a right strop when they refused to walk away and put it down to ‘experience’...and insisted it get logged.

    Thought that was funky but cancelling 999 calls, jeez. Some country...


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,162 ✭✭✭✭ KKV


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Theres allegations that Gardai were cancelling 999 calls in order to avoid paperwork




    Which has all been fairly well explained by a Garda in post #2.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,591 ✭✭✭ screamer


    Time for the gardai to get in some lean and six sigma experts to sort out the paperwork issues. A few disciplinary actions will no doubt be needed too, but the root cause has to be fixed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭ Calhoun


    Strumms wrote: »
    You have to ask what the fûck is going on with the leadership of An Garda Siochana... both the lads in Garda HQ and senior officers in stations..

    I was pretty annoyed when a family member reported a cut and dried crime of a new phone worth over 300 euros... ‘theft’... only to have the Garda go through rigorous efforts to dissuade them from making a formal complaint as nothing probably could or would be done...he threw a right strop when they refused to walk away and put it down to ‘experience’...and insisted it get logged.

    Thought that was funky but cancelling 999 calls, jeez. Some country...

    Par for the course I have seen similar incidents and the modus operandi seems to be least amount of work as possible.

    It means stuff like this is not only not surprising but it's what I'd expect.

    The next time they try and pull bull**** over wages I hope the public remembers all those unprofessional moments.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,541 ✭✭✭✭ Muahahaha


    KKV wrote: »
    Which has all been fairly well explained by a Garda in post #2.

    Well no it hasnt been explained in post #2 and Drew Harris admitted it at the Policing Authority yesterday before apologising to the victims. Post #2 goes on about legitimate reasons for 999 calls being cancelled and they found instances of that, no problems. What this investigation is dealing with is illegitimate reasons of which they have found 600+ so far and the full investigation is not yet complete.

    Drew Harris said he personally listened to 20 of these 999 calls relating to domestic abuse and called them "harrowing". He admitted that there was not an adequate Garda response to what were incidents of violence against women. He is also not ruling out Gardai cancelling 999 calls in order that they could avoid doing the paperwork. If that turns out to be true we're dealing with pure laziness and evidence of an ill disciplined force.
    The Garda Commissioner has publicly apologised to domestic violence victims who made emergency calls for help but did not receive the standard of service from gardaí that they required and to which they were entitled.

    Drew Harris was addressing the Policing Authority after a garda inquiry into how 999 calls were dealt with found that more than 600 emergency calls in 2019 and 2020 were cancelled before there was an appropriate policing response.

    The Policing Authority is also accusing AGS of trying to frustrate them
    Garda engagement in inquiry 'unsatisfactory'

    The Policing Authority has expressed its "deep dissatisfaction" and "significant concern" with the responses it received from An Garda Síochána in relation to the cancellation of 999 emergency calls. Chairman Bob Collins has described as "unsatisfactory" the level of engagement on the matter and accused senior gardaí of not providing available information to the Authority

    The authority will also seek more information on the type of people who made the calls at this afternoon's meeting. The Policing Authority has published the minutes of its last meeting three weeks ago in relation to the garda investigation into the cancellation of the 999 calls.

    The authority expressed its "deep dissatisfaction and significant concern" in relation to the nature of the information provided to it, the garda response to clarifications sought and the unsatisfactory level of engagement. Members noted the responses were not thorough and critical questions were not addressed.

    Mr Collins expressed his own and the authority's acute disappointment and intense frustration that information in the possession of and immediately available to gardaí had not been and was not being provided to the authority.

    He also said it was not acceptable that the extent to which issues of domestic violence were involved in cancelled calls had not been conveyed to the authority until April, even though it had been recognised six months earlier.
    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0624/1231029-policing-authority/


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