Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - **Read OP**

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919911#Comment_120919911

do you think that there aren't top brass in other countries? its also a small number, so doesn't make much difference, theres one commisioner

the numbers are out there, widely available, its not hidden

where are you getting your numbers?

if you are covering 5000 people, then yes there are other police either doing nothing (very possible) or there are more numbers elsewhere

its how numbers work

Killinator

There is one commissioner, there are multiple ACs, there a even more Chiefs, there are even more Supers and there are even more Inspectors. Non of who are out doing regular policing and when all put together make up a decent number.

I've already explained that the 13,900 odd number is of little use as it does not paint the ACTUAL picture.

There are hundreds of Gardai off injured on duty or sick. There are hundreds still only in probabtion. There are large amounts who have come back from sick or injury but are unable to go out on confrontational duties and are station bound.

Whatever is left is split between Gardai, Sgts, Detectives and specialists (many of whom also don't do regular policing (scenes of crime, forensic collision investigators, specialist child interviewers, etc)

Most Sgts spend their days tied to desks due to an administrative process that is so long and pointless as to make it seem a deliberate act of soul breaking!

That leaves Gardai (who aren't on annual leave or short term sick)....split in 4 units across the entire country.

It doesn't leave much.

You seem to think there are 13900 available as hoc at any given time to respond anywhere. It's not how the numbers work and it's certainly not how the Gardai work!

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120917505#Comment_120917505

Yes but if you were a gard wouldn't you rather patrol somewhere you won't have as high a chance of encountering crime..

After all you will be in more danger if you do meet actual criminals/thugs, you are getting paid the square root of **** all relative to the hassle you are going to get , and there will probably be a complaint and a possible career ending investigation you don't know about hanging over you for years and if you do by some miracle manage to do everything some judge will let them off with a slap on the wrist to laugh in your face the next day etc

I wouldn't bother looking for trouble either when you are the punchbag for the system.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919979#Comment_120919979

Well, they are in St Anne's Park apparently.

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920020#Comment_120920020

look when people are giving out about the garda, they aren't just giving out about rank and file

the problem they face are no doubt similar to the any other police force

do you agree? so if the overall numbers are similar then is there enough garda? The numbers aren't out of kilter with other countries

the solution isn't to throw more numbers into a broken system is it?

it how its managed, directed etc and motivated, this is on managment

now on the rank and file garda, you know very well there is a lot of piss taking going on at the low level also

you can do what you want with no repurcussions

you had wide spread faking of breathalyzer testing going on and what did this result in? Like this was exposed, tip of the iceberg stuff, and nothing has been done

if you are stuck doing paperwork (hello tv cop stereotype) then who else is going to fix this process other than the garda

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920147#Comment_120920147

there must be a good chipper nearby

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919824#Comment_120919824

Keep it simple and relative then and just compare ireland today with ireland from 2010.

How are we doing?

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920279#Comment_120920279

given that crime numbers were at a peak back then, grand I'd say

ireland is a low crime country on the whole, jaysus we can manage a mostly unarmed force

does it or does it not make sense for any organisation to target their activities at problem areas?

its weird why the solution is always more money to fix the Problem, never to fix the problem

it never fixes the problem though, HSE perfect example of this

Killinator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920212#Comment_120920212

You say people aren't giving out about rank and file and then proceed to give out about them.

You've clearly got a chip on your shoulder re the Gardai, it's obvious from snarky remarks like the above re chipper, very original by the way, surprised you didn't go with the tried and tested donut reference and just call us pigs (God forbid Gardai get food at one of the only places available late at night!) There's clearly nothing I can say nor any facts that will change that so I'm just not going to bother engaging with you anymore.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920217#Comment_120920217

Maybe that's the trick - put good chippers in all the crime hotspots.

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920333#Comment_120920333

Im not sure many would agree that we would increase irelands population by the population of Dublin City and then cut the number of guards across the country by almost 10%, in order to help us manage that large population increase...

But thats exactly what we have done.

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921834#Comment_120921834

look at the crime numbers, youd have to say its a success, I mean who records and reports these crime numbers?

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920480#Comment_120920480

its not inaccurate though

by the way was that a chipper joke of your own? chip on shouler

the facts are what I posted, it just flies on the face of it being a numbers issue

People arent giving out about rank and file, they are giving out they have disappeared off the streets, especially in hard up locations. if its individual police are taking it upon themselves to do this, then fair enough

I would assume it higher ups involved myself

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920574#Comment_120920574

weirdly, there is an over representation of chippers in crime hotspots

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924414#Comment_120924414

Kinda blown your own theory out of the water here...!!

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924381#Comment_120924381

I dont have the crime numbers. But who has the unreported crime numbers? nobody. And a lot of people dont report crimes anymore because they know nothing will be done.

Having more Guards would make the reporting of crime more viable.

There is no scenario in which having less guards is optimal for society. Especially when the population is increasing so rapidly.

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925426#Comment_120925426

then get the crime numbers, why say that?

look if something was serious enough to get the police involved in 2010 it is so today

hard to speculated on an unknown

the numbers are the numbers, its like the population comparison, you cant pick and choose

I believe there is a point where adding more garda, especially to a broken system, as described by Killian, would not benefit society

all you do is paper over the cracks

one of the real issue with recruitment is how they do it, way to onerous, puts people off

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925426#Comment_120925426

Its very Brasseye

https://www.101soundboards.com/sounds/7531-so-much-for-recorded-crimes-but-crimes-we-know-nothing-about-are-going-up-as-well

FGR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920212#Comment_120920212

Numbers and statistics can prove just about anything if you want them to.

You mention number of gardaí per 1000 population - ever consider in other countries that they not only have a national police force but also municipal and military bodies in addition? Take Spain with the Policia Local, Policia Nationale and Guardia Civil; all with statutory powers.

Add to that we're in a country where AGS is responsible for so many other duties that other police forces have no involvement - immigration, intelligence, public transport, Road Transport enforcement, diplomatic protection, animal welfare, child welfare and even general administration (typing, file prep) and court presentation. Things that many other countries have their own civil authorities to deal with it whilst the police focus on one thing i.e. crime.

Those details are rarely included in the statistics or officer per member of the public statistics.

You joke about paperwork - the accountability expected has doubled if not tripled administration amongst gardai in recent years. That's because old processes, despite new processes being brought in on top of them, are not being retired resulting in a lot of repetitive bureaucracy. Those new processes too having multiple layers of additional work for auditing and statistical purposes.

You mention guards want to 'avoid' having to deal with crime. Yes - there's the threat of being attacked, or complained; but I wouldn't be surprised if guards are up to their necks in admin they'd rather avoid the mountain of admin that comes with an arrest that will go nowhere be it for the guard or the public at large.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925426#Comment_120925426

Good post. That is why things will get a lot worse before it gets any better.

the only way to stop the current trajectory is more Gardai.

yes unfortunately this costs more money and we know where a lot of our cash is currently going.

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926640#Comment_120926640

40% of all people know that

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926421#Comment_120926421

where is your evidence that crime is down anyway?

Potential-Monke

On the overtime thing, I will say, there are 2 categories: Garda overtime for something like a sports match or traffic control for an event is easy money. Simple duties, a near guarantee of no follow up work. This was extended to public order duties at protests and such, but some of them fall into the second category; followup most likely required. These types of overtime are the evening/weekend public order OT, patrol/beat in city centres for busy nights out or events. These types of OT nearly guarantee you'll end up with an arrest or an investigation. One which continues into your normal hours on top of everything else you have to do anyway, with no additional time given to complete. That's the OT I avoided and only did if I was desperate for money.

How many people would voluntarily do overtime (in general, I dislike the concept) if it meant they would end up with even more work to do the following day/week on top of your normal work with no extra time allotted for it? That's why you'll always see a lot more Gardai on overtime for events, rather than everyday policing overtime. And no one can blame them. Both are required, one is easier. Simple choice.

I'll also echo what FGR said above, AGS have jobs and duties that shouldn't be up to them but the state is so poor in every area that it's left up to them. I'm sure my wrist is permanently damaged from signing my name 150+ times a day to people lying about their car being off the road.

Killinator

For anyone who wants to know how stupid and pointless the paperwork and has become.

Some divisions are working off a system which automatically allocates tasks for every single investigation and can't be cleared duntil the tasks are completed.

When Gardai attend a sudden death (common call) with this new system they are required to take an injured party statement. In a sudden death, the deceased person is deemed the injured party. So the system requires the investigating Garda to take a statement from a dead person.

That's how stupid and backwards the current computer systems are!

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120928273#Comment_120928273

I questioned the injured party at length but they remained uncooperative, so I made them aware of their rights and pleaded for a response but unfortunately they remained unresponsive, every attempt to establish communication I made was met with a stony silence. At that point I began to suspect something was up.......

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926640#Comment_120926640

this numbers and statistics can prove just about anything doesn't make any sense does it?

its just a weak counter to logic

The other countries like france have 2 police forces, these are part of the stats, not sure what the point is though, numbers are numbers

on the legal side, france has investigator judges and judicial police rather than a court system per say, maybe you can give light on how this affects the numbers

the paperwork issue, if its an issue, should be sorted rather than throwing more resources on the fire

if they are avoiding the hard work, well.....

this garda is a police force, just just individuals, thats what needs fixing, obviously, leaving numbers drop should be fixed also, all part of a solution, but not the only solution

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927202#Comment_120927202

ask the CSO

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120907830#Comment_120907830

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909672#Comment_120909672

THIS is where a big part of the problem is. Its an absolute farce. But I don't understand - why would a Garda not object to these requests?

These little sods should neither expect nor be shown any leniency while on bail. No "sleepovers" (FFS!). No leaving the jurisdiction.

They should have to sign on at the local garda station every morning, and ordered to be off the streets and under strict curfew from 7pm to 7am when they must be at their home address, with random spot checks for compliance done by the Gardai where possible.

If the little sods are found not to be at home between the hours of 7pm-7am, the parents should be dragged into court and held responsible.

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929477#Comment_120929477

So you have no evidence.

Actually, most crimes have increased pre covid from 2019 to 2022.

attempted rape up 19%

murder up 16%

assault up 16%

car theft up 17%

And you want to reduce the number of Guards.

Thankfully you arent in Govt.

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930452#Comment_120930452

this is 2010 to now, which was you comparison on the police numbers, everything went down in 2019 and back up in 2022, except the rain

the cso has the stats, look em up yourself, that's what the internet is for, i don't produce stats myself, too busy