Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

I take a different view....more than half are starting to recognise just how the culture of fear is ingrained in the Government.

When you consider, there is no media organisation that is challenging the Government at all (beside the odd comment from the odd news show presenter) that is actually remarkable.

We are all watching the Euros, we see the crowds...many wouldn't have seen the packed Crucible last April, many wouldn't have seen the packed stadiums in the US over the last 6 months, or the golf, or the myria of other sporting events the crowds have been allowed into but many are seeing them now.

Wait until more people see a packed Wimbledon final next month.

The fact that under half of Irish people are still sticking with Nphet and the Government means they are in trouble...

They visibly lost a lot of people back in late February, the amount of people who have abandoned the Government is growing all the time, they will lose more this summer, the fear is running on fumes at this stage....

I get what you mean and I too would be inclined to focus on the positives were it not for the that, according to the poll, 65% of the public want restrictions to continue even after herd immunity has been reached through the vaccination of the majority of the population.

And the point has to made again that it doesn't really matter if they lose support because there's no opposition. Look at the opposition in the US. It's relentless. The opposition has switched its attention to getting rid of masks on planes and public transport. The US is the only hope of getting out of this, I think.

Graham

Silentcorner wrote: »

the fear is running on fumes at this stage....

I suspect "the fear" you keep seeking evidence of is nothing more than people being cautious.

Silentcorner

Graham wrote: »

I suspect "the fear" you keep seeking evidence of is nothing more than people being cautious.

Caution that is coming at an enormous cost, both from a human suffering and economic point of view, something that won't be easy to sweep under the rug for much longer.

Especially when the "scientists" who are advocating this caution seem to know something the rest of the world doesn't!!!

the kelt

Don't Chute! wrote: »

https://youtu.be/F41DEv0lUFU

Ciara Kelly talking a lot of sense again here. The fear and intimidation campaign isn’t working anymore. Government and NPHET are the only ones who still think there is a big threat. And a few head the balls in here of course.

The incidence of the delta variant has been dropping in recent weeks.

Klonker

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/nphet-warned-government-that-covid-19-cases-could-rise-to-2-000-a-day-within-four-weeks-1.4524486%3fmode=amp

How close to NPHETs minimum projection in the 80,000 - 500,000 cases between 5th April to end of September are we on course to get? Surely NPHET didn't get their projections wrong again did they?

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Unfortunately it is. Look at the latest Irish Times poll. 65% of the Irish people want mask wearing to continue to be mandatory even after the population has been vaccinated: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-times-poll-public-split-on-pace-of-lifting-covid-19-restrictions-1.4596630

Almost half think things are going too fast. Imagine that. 15 or so people in ICU out of a population of 5 million and half think things are moving too fast. It's the consequence of a moribund media that puts zero pressure on the government or NPHET. The media was instrumental in getting things moving in the US.

Looks like similar figures to attitudes on the rollback of restrictions in the UK

A recent UK poll showed that 62% of those there would back delaying Lockdown Roadmap beyond the 19 July “Terminus” Date

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/62-of-brits-back-delaying-lockdown-roadmap-beyond-the-19-july-terminus-date

Over half of Brits would back the government delaying the coronavirus roadmap beyond 19 July — despite Boris Johnson describing this as the “terminus” for lockdown restrictions.

According to the survey of 1,500 UK adults, conducted by Redfield and Wilton on behalf of PoliticsHome, 62% would support leaving the current coronavirus restrictions in place beyond 19 July if the government decides it is necessary for public health.

Do you think the figures are a " consequence of a moribund media" there as well?

Silentcorner

Klonker wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/nphet-warned-government-that-covid-19-cases-could-rise-to-2-000-a-day-within-four-weeks-1.4524486%3fmode=amp

How close to NPHETs minimum projection in the 80,000 - 500,000 cases between 5th April to end of September are we on course to get? Surely NPHET didn't get their projections wrong again did they?

Sure no one has ever asked that question, why would they now?

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Looks like similar figures to attitudes on the rollback of restrictions in the UK

A recent UK poll showed that 62% of those there would back delaying Lockdown Roadmap beyond the 19 July “Terminus” Date

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/62-of-brits-back-delaying-lockdown-roadmap-beyond-the-19-july-terminus-date



Do you think the figures are a " consequence of a moribund media" there as well?

I can't explain why 62% wouldn't want life to go back to normal. There is opposition in the UK in terms of the media, and there's a bizzare situation whereby there's no opposition from Labour, but opposition from within the Conservative Party in the form of The Covid Recovery Group. But it's not enough. The media is dominated by the BBC, The Guardian, The Independent et al.

If herd immunity isn't enough for 62% of the British public and 65% of the Irish public then the restrictions have to be permanent. I have long thought that mask wearing and some form of social distancing would be permanent in Ireland. I see no evidence to suggest that isn't true. And now we learn that 65% of the public want the restrictions to be permanent. It would have to be that they'd be permanent if the entire population being vaccinated wouldn't be enough to get rid of them for 65% of the public.

And Holohan said today or the other day that vaccinated people could resume normal life. That normal life is meeting a few people at home without a mask on. So I guess that's what life will be like.

Loafing Oaf

Gortanna wrote: »

The media is dominated by The Guardian, The Independent

How are they dominating the media, their circulation is 100-200K?

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

How are they dominating the media, their circulation is 100-200K?

What I mean is that kind of thinking and way of viewing the world. The BBC view on the world. We can see it from YouGov polls. Lockdowns are popular, support for restrictions has consistently been high.

Loafing Oaf

Gortanna wrote: »

What I mean is that kind of thinking and way of viewing the world. The BBC view on the world. We can see it from YouGov polls. Lockdowns are popular, support for restrictions has consistently been high.

Well correlation is not causation. A lot to do to prove the line of two 'liberal' newspapers bought regularly by something like one person in 500 or 1000 is the or even a major factor in generating public support for restrictions.

Graham

Silentcorner wrote: »

Caution that is coming at an enormous cost

Agreed

The costs of reopening too soon would be higher.

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well correlation is not causation. A lot to do to prove the line of two 'liberal' newspapers bought regularly by something like one person in 500 or 1000 is the or even a major factor in generating public support for restrictions.

I'm basing that on support for restrictions continuing after the 19th of July and on the consistent high levels of support for lockdowns and restrictions since March of last year. 62% support continued restrictions according to the latest poll.

Would you not say that the UK is a very left wing country?

niallo27

Graham wrote: »

Agreed

The costs of reopening too soon would be higher.

Why would it be, what are you basing this on. What country is in trouble of paying this higher cost.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can't explain why 62% wouldn't want life to go back to normal. There is opposition in the UK in terms of the media, and there's a bizzare situation whereby there's no opposition from Labour, but opposition from within the Conservative Party in the form of The Covid Recovery Group. But it's not enough. The media is dominated by the BBC, The Guardian, The Independent et al.

If herd immunity isn't enough for 62% of the British public and 65% of the Irish public then the restrictions have to be permanent. I have long thought that mask wearing and some form of social distancing would be permanent in Ireland. I see no evidence to suggest that isn't true. And now we learn that 65% of the public want the restrictions to be permanent. It would have to be that they'd be permanent if the entire population being vaccinated wouldn't be enough to get rid of them for 65% of the public.

And Holohan said today or the other day that vaccinated people could resume normal life. That normal life is meeting a few people at home without a mask on. So I guess that's what life will be like.

So you belive that "mask wearing and some form of social distancing would be permanent in Ireland."?

But the survey you linked to makes no reference to restrictions being permanent and support for continued temporary restrictions whether here or the UK is not the same as restrictions being permanent as you seem to believe.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

So you belive that "mask wearing and some form of social distancing would be permanent in Ireland."?

But the survey you linked to makes no reference to restrictions being permanent and support for continued temporary restrictions whether here or the UK is not the same as restrictions being permanent as you seem to believe.

According to that Irish Times poll 65% of the Irish people want mask wearing to continue to be mandatory even after the majority of the population has been vaccinated. So if herd immunity isn't enough, in their opinion, for masks to go then they'd have to be permanent.

Yes, I have believed that for some time now.

Don't Chute!

Graham wrote: »

I suspect "the fear" you keep seeking evidence of is nothing more than people being cautious.

Tonys well publicized worry meter begs to differ.

SnuggyBear

[Deleted User] wrote: »

According to that Irish Times poll 65% of the Irish people want mask wearing to continue to be mandatory even after the majority of the population has been vaccinated. So if herd immunity isn't enough, in their opinion, for masks to go then they'd have to be permanent.

Yes, I have believed that for some time now.

Wtf is wrong with people? People who I presume are vaccinated going by their age walking around in the open air with a mask on. What a ****ty future.

SnuggyBear

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Wtf is wrong with people? People who I presume are vaccinated going by their age walking around in the open air with a mask on. What a ****ty future.

18 months of watching RTÉ, NPHET briefings, and listening to the radio. And never exposed to an alternative viewpoint because of the moribund fourth estate.

Don't Chute!

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Wtf is wrong with people? People who I presume are vaccinated going by their age walking around in the open air with a mask on. What a ****ty future.

You can’t be surprised surely? The amount of people I see driving down the M50 on their own wearing masks is incredible! You add fear to stupidity and this is what you get.

Silentcorner

Gortanna wrote: »

18 months of watching RTÉ, NPHET briefings, and listening to the radio. And never exposed to an alternative viewpoint because of the moribund fourth estate.

It's also worthy to note that polling these days haven't always been too accurate...

The people who commissioned the poll should also publish what exact questions were asked and how many people didn't want to offer an opinion.

There has been a lot of coercion to maintain compliance with this severe health policy....a health policy that has also spawned another health crisis and an economic one.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

It's also worthy to note that polling these days haven't always been too accurate...

The people who commissioned the poll should also publish what exact questions were asked and how many people didn't want to offer an opinion.

There has been a lot of coercion to maintain compliance with this severe health policy....a health policy that has also spawned another health crisis and an economic one.

Sure, polls should be taken with a pinch of salt, but I think 65% sounds about right. Around a third of the Irish people are conservative (pro life etc). That's based on the results of recent referenda. So 32% wanting restrictions to go once herd immunity has been achieved is probably accurate.

Micky 32

Don't Chute! wrote: »

You can’t be surprised surely? The amount of people I see driving down the M50 on their own wearing masks is incredible! You add fear to stupidity and this is what you get.

An uncle of mine in the USA calls them “ maskholes” :pac:

Dickie10

when can we stop wearing masks , i went into the chipper the last two times in space of a week without it on, forgot i hadnt one in the car and nothing said, i seen another woman in it tonight without the mask as well? i presume nothing would be said if we didnt wear one now at tis stage

Sobit1964

Dickie10 wrote: »

when can we stop wearing masks , i went into the chipper the last two times in space of a week without it on, forgot i hadnt one in the car and nothing said, i seen another woman in it tonight without the mask as well? i presume nothing would be said if we didnt wear one now at tis stage

A policy of make them ask, then politely apply the crumpled mask from your pocket, while reminding the person asking that their nose is a breathing hole, and they too should be fully covered, and to please back up 2 meters, is totally appropriate.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

According to that Irish Times poll 65% of the Irish people want mask wearing to continue to be mandatory even after the majority of the population has been vaccinated. So if herd immunity isn't enough, in their opinion, for masks to go then they'd have to be permanent.

Yes, I have believed that for some time now.

Well no - the two don't follow at all. At the moment vaccination levels have yet to be reached. . Afaik that level does not equate to a defined "herd immunity" btw - currently the jury is out on that figure. What we do know is that the more people vaccinated- the lower the number of people catching covid in the first place.

In the short term until that happens and / or when the pandemic is declared over - we have the majority (who tbf who have observed restrictions to date) looking to keep the risk of infection down. Because lets face it (pun unintended) until we have the bulk of the population fully vaccinated and decreased risk - no one actually wants to contact covid or spread it to anyone else. At least there's no requirement to wear mask outdoors here unlike parts of Europe. Masks wearing in the limited places where we are currently required to wear them- won't be "permanent" imho.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Well no - the two don't follow at all. At the moment vaccination levels have yet to be reached. . Afaik that level does not equate to a defined "herd immunity" btw - currently the jury is out on that figure. What we do know is that the more people vaccinated- the lower the number of people catching covid in the first place.

In the short term until that happens and / or when the pandemic is declared over - we have the majority (who tbf who have observed restrictions to date) looking to keep the risk of infection down. Because lets face it (pun unintended) until we have the bulk of the population fully vaccinated and decreased risk - no one actually wants to contact covid or spread it to anyone else. At least there's no requirement to wear mask outdoors here unlike parts of Europe. Masks wearing in the limited places where we are currently required to wear them- won't be "permanent" imho.

It's not really limited. They're required everywhere apart from outdoors. And even outdoors they're recommended on busy streets.

I don't see the justification for any restrictions. The number of people in hospital is tiny.

PTH2009

With the news of the 20s only starting to get vaccinated end of August/September, it is a bit of a disaster as it's giving ammo to keep some restrictions in place

Very small numbers at matches
Very small numbers at gigs
Travel restrictions for non essential
Nightclubs/late bars closed

Tis a **** up

Sobit1964

PTH2009 wrote: »

With the news of the 20s only starting to get vaccinated end of August/September, it is a bit of a disaster as it's giving ammo to keep some restrictions in place

Very small numbers at matches
Very small numbers at gigs
Travel restrictions for non essential
Nightclubs/late bars closed

Tis a **** up

They are trialling reduced mosh pits in the UK

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/entertainment-arts-57537108

Im far too old for a mosh pit, preferring seated comfort, but im sure the reduced size of the mosh pit will bring some people some comfort.

PTH2009

Sobit1964 wrote: »

They are trialling reduced mosh pits in the UK

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/entertainment-arts-57537108

Im far too old for a mosh pit, preferring seated comfort, but im sure the reduced size of the mosh pit will bring some people some comfort.

That's how you do Trial Events. Tony would be having cold sweats if we had something like that

Not like here with our 2000 in a 80,000 seater stadium and 500 outdoors in pods of 4-6 in a large field