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First Aid?

  • 29-04-2021 10:29pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭ civdef
    Registered User


    Follow up thread to the Kentucky Ballistics 50bmg kaboom video in the OT thread - do you carry any first aid gear with your shooting stuff?

    What first aid gear do you have with you when shooting? 25 votes

    Full trauma kit, most of an ambulance bar the wheels.
    88% 22 votes
    A few plasters and a magic sponge
    8% 2 votes
    My thumb
    4% 1 vote


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone
    Registered User


    Normally in the car, a first aid kit. You can't carry too much with you or you'd be like Sherpa Tenzing.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    Carry a lot of first aid gear. Wouldn't say it was an ambulance without the wheels (could do with another option between one and two there), but i carry a fairly good selection of gear from plasters to bandages, surgical tape, cpr mask, heat/cold pack, antiseptic, gloves, scissors, needles, tweezers, eye wash/drops, some meds and of course sudocrem.

    I've two packs. One is small and under the rear seat with only basics (plasters, antiseptic wash, bandage or two and a few other basics/essential) and the second is a larger one in the boot with the better supply of stuff (listed above. Which reminds me with the place opening up time to stick it back into the boot.

    I got basic first aid training in one of my jobs with a refresher a couple of years later so started carrying them after that. Luckily i've only ever had to use it once, and not on myself.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    Carry a basic 1st aid kit in the car, and a basic trauma kit when hunting or chainsawing.[IE a lot of quick clot , Israeli bandages, tourniquet.] Not much point in carrying more stuff,if you arent qualified to use it, or don't know-how.

    The rest of it is in the head stuff anyone should know...CPR, Heimlich maneuver, Mouth to mouth, stroke recognition, stopping bleeding.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster
    Moderator


    I put a compact first aid kit together last year, mainly for incised / laceration wounds, but I also carry a space blanket and upgraded my old survival bivie bag. I tend only to carry this if hill shooting or bush camping and I keep a basic first aid kit in the car.
    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    .....IE a lot of quick clot , Israeli bandages, tourniquet.] .......

    What quick clot do you have and were did you source it. I did a bit of internet searching last year but never purchased it in the end. I must get back onto it.


    As a side bar, what other safety kit do you bring? Mine includes a combination of the following and is dependent on the location and type of hunting I'm at:

    Mobile phone - always (charger bank if staying out for very long periods) I also use Google Maps location sharing with my other half.

    Torch- head or hand

    Walkie Talkies - use them when hunting in groups, very handy in so many ways. But can be used to communicate with emergency services.

    Garmin eTrex 10 Outdoor GPS- used in the hills, preprogramed with tracks in and out.


    As I said alot of it is dependent on what I do but necessity and experience has thought us to add kit. Ground that we would know very well suddenly becomes alien when heavy fog comes in.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,394 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Vegeta
    Moderator


    This a great topic, I am sooo ignorant of first aid. My father is very well trained so I've been lazy about it but getting training and equipment together would be really good goal for when in person training is allowed again.

    Anyone recommend a good multi-purpose first aid kit, or are you better off assembling the stuff yourself?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭ Scalachi
    Registered User


    I probably carry far too much, but I am an Emergency First Responder, Community First Responder/Irish Heart Foundation Instructor, REC3 etc.

    So I have a small kit in the range bag, then a couple of bigger kits and an AED in the car.

    Everyone should have basics - but know how to use them -Scissors and gloves, a CPR mask, (and know how to do CPR) and then some very simple items like plasters, multiple sizes/types, some basic bandages that you can put on something to stop bleeding, some type of triangular bandage as they have 1001 uses, and probably a foil blanket.. and really, most other items in a basic first aid kit are never used.

    After that - call 999/112

    Most local Community First Responder Groups, or the Irish Heart Foundation will provide a basic CPR/AED course and cover items like choking and stroke etc for little to no cost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭ civdef
    Registered User


    I put the poll choices together a bit tongue in cheek admittedly.
    I’d tend more towards the “most of an ambulance” category myself- having a heavy duty responder bag in the car.
    I’ve a small kit tucked in with my range bag, enough bits and bobs to tide me over in first few minutes if something nasty happened.

    If people are looking for ideas for a good spec kit for stuff related to shooting, this is about the best value I’ve seen commercially given the contents-

    https://www.spservices.ie/item/Parabag_ParabagPersonalAttackResponseKit_169_35_5851_1.html?sid=34505c5d48fd1bf729187681bdc7ede0

    You might be able to shop around and get the individual bits a but cheaper- but that seems pretty good value.

    Celox is the haemostatic agent I’ve been buying- seems to have a good evidence base and is pretty available.

    All these bits of gear are no use without training - there are good sources of information available online from reputable sources, but it’s hard to beat good practical hands on training.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭ riffmongous
    Moderator


    Nothing better than a practical course to be honest, for CPR and the recovery position especially. You need that muscle memory


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭ Feisar
    Registered User


    I bring nothing, stupidly. A friend cut himself badly dressing a deer a few years back. I should carry some sort of quick clot effort. But as Grizz said, there's no point in having half an A&E setup with me because I wouldn't have a clue how to use it.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭ kunekunesika
    Registered User


    I can carry a tiny bought first aid kit, a big roll of surgical tape and a spare tea towel!!! ( triangular bandage equivalent). I also carry a plb (personal locator beacon) in my pack for that really serious situation ( have the plb for other stuff, not sure I'd buy one just for stalking, but they are getting cheaper).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭ kunekunesika
    Registered User


    Just checked there, a Mc Murdo PLB will set you back 230euro. Not too bad, but everyone will be able to find you, even in an area of zero/poor coverage. Get your bolt fluted and you'll have the weight covered.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster
    Moderator


    I have the inner red pouch from this set as my go to field first aid kit-

    https://www.military1st.ie/mo-m02-cd-02-helikon-modular-individual-med-kit-olive-green.html

    You can get a fair bit of stuff into it and it will fit in a fanny pack or top of a small haversack

    551856.jpg

    551857.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭ civdef
    Registered User


    Did some more browsing around- this looks like great value at €35.

    https://www.douglasforestandgarden.ie/product/stein-personal-bleed-control-kit/

    I’d just add a shears or knife suitable for cutting clothing to it- but a lot of shooters would have that anyway.

    The tourniquet it comes with isn't as easy to use as a CAT, but still a lot better than having to improvise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2
    Registered User


    I do think it'd be an idea to have some ranges arrange a combination of the relevant parts from the EFR and BTEC PHECC courses for any interested members.

    I've done up to EFR as part of voluntary work but I would be interested in a refresher and some practical training on tourniquet usage.

    For those interested:
    https://www.phecit.ie/PHECC/Education_and_careers/Recognised_institutions_and_courses/Emergency_First_Response_-_Basic_Tactical_Emergency_Care/PHECC/Education_and_careers/Recognised_institutions_and_courses/EFR-BTEC.aspx

    But it need not be the entire EFR & BTEC courses, just a subset thereof.

    If a range or group would be up for it I've actually a buddy who is both a very experienced first aid trainer and a paramedic to boot who I think would be up for teaching it.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,903 ✭✭✭✭ CJhaughey
    Registered User


    Mountain man medical in the US has an online Trauma course which is free, worth doing even if you have no FA experience.
    I can't link to it on my work PC as it is blocked....
    It covers a lot of the things that you might find in outdoors scenarios and I found it worthwhile as you can do it in stages not all in one go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2
    Registered User


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Mountain man medical in the US has an online Trauma course which is free, worth doing even if you have no FA experience.
    I can't link to it on my work PC as it is blocked....
    It covers a lot of the things that you might find in outdoors scenarios and I found it worthwhile as you can do it in stages not all in one go.

    https://www.mountainmanmedical.com/course/emergency-trauma-response/

    For those interested, it does look like an interesting course, might do it this weekend.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    [
    QUOTE=cookimonster;117037841]

    What quick clot do you have and were did you source it. I did a bit of internet searching last year but never purchased it in the end. I must get back onto it.

    https://israelifirstaid.com Pretty much a one-stop-shop for1st aid kits and stuff. Shipping is a bit stiff, but the stuff is fresh and hasn't been sitting on some shelf for decades.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    Nothing better than a practical course to be honest, for CPR and the recovery position especially. You need that muscle memory

    For those who need a quick&dirty CPR...70s Disco can save someone's life. If you know the Bee Gees song Stayin Alive the beat is almost the same as a CPR required beats of 100 beats a minute.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI9LXlSUmp0

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭ civdef
    Registered User


    So does “Another one bites the dust”, by Queen, just don’t sing it out loud when you’re doing the compressions 😂


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,903 ✭✭✭✭ CJhaughey
    Registered User


    Pace yourselves lads, recommended is 100bpm but if you are doing compressions only you can’t do it for more than about 15 mins. Even if fit its a lot of effort. I would say slow it down a bit especially if help is not immediately coming, you don’t want to stop as clots start forming and that’s not a good thing. Make sure you are stripped off as you will get hot pretty quickly and you don’t want to stop to take off your jacket.
    I instruct this and I don’t think I could do more than 15 mins at 100bpm, but if you have a buddy then it’s possible to do a lot more as you take turns and count each other in. Don’t forget to keep checking airway as well.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Pace yourselves lads, recommended is 100bpm but if you are doing compressions only you can’t do it for more than about 15 mins. Even if fit its a lot of effort. I would say slow it down a bit especially if help is not immediately coming, you don’t want to stop as clots start forming and that’s not a good thing. Make sure you are stripped off as you will get hot pretty quickly and you don’t want to stop to take off your jacket.
    I instruct this and I don’t think I could do more than 15 mins at 100bpm, but if you have a buddy then it’s possible to do a lot more as you take turns and count each other in. Don’t forget to keep checking airway as well.


    So that's Motorheads' "Ace of Spades" out then?250 BPM full tempo.:eek::D
    If you have a good rock drummer in the crowd to take over, you are sorted.100 BPM is a nice walk in the park for those lads.:D

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2
    Registered User


    Interesting pamphlet from Stop The Bleed, covering the basics:
    https://www.bleedingcontrol.org/-/media/bleedingcontrol/files/stop-the-bleed-booklet.ashx

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ slipperyox
    Registered User


    Packet of tampons for me


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭ civdef
    Registered User




  • Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ slipperyox
    Registered User




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭ civdef
    Registered User


    Well done so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭ Traumadoc
    Registered User


    Saw an interesting video where a mountain biker managed to sever his femoral artery and his mates stemmed the flow by kneeling on the bleeding point.

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/WARNING-GRAPHIC-CONTENT-Cedric-Gracias-Reunion-Island-Crash,24315/iceman2058,94


    Don't really carry anything much in the field , maybe a small pack for gauze dressings and a gauze bandage , keep in the car a "full" medical pack including ambu bag , basic and advanced airway stuff , defibrillator etc.

    Doubt I could keep up chest compressions for more than 5 minutes - we usually swap compressors every 2 minutes or use a machine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ slipperyox
    Registered User


    sodium polyacrylate was used in tampons, but banned, toxic shock etc
    They were useful then, and my brother in law used them in Iraq.

    But the problem with these trauma kits, is if your conscientious enough to buy, your probably so safe as to never need it. In fact most kits will never meet a causality, and expire.

    Everyday objects have saved more lives, not withstanding.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭ civdef
    Registered User


    Dangerous, nasty things those bikes - someone should ban them.


    Great video, thanks for posting, will be adding that to the training playlist.

    Traumadoc wrote: »
    Saw an interesting video where a mountain biker managed to sever his femoral artery and his mates stemmed the flow by kneeling on the bleeding point.

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/WARNING-GRAPHIC-CONTENT-Cedric-Gracias-Reunion-Island-Crash,24315/iceman2058,94


    Don't really carry anything much in the field , maybe a small pack for gauze dressings and a gauze bandage , keep in the car a "full" medical pack including ambu bag , basic and advanced airway stuff , defibrillator etc.

    Doubt I could keep up chest compressions for more than 5 minutes - we usually swap compressors every 2 minutes or use a machine.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster
    Moderator


    slipperyox wrote: »

    Everyday objects have saved more lives, not withstanding.

    Done a fair share of driving lads to dressing clinics after they managed to slice themselves open, in fairness we'd have a good first aid kit to hand but nothing beats a a final wrap of the bandage with good old cling film.

    The amount of times I've seen or used paper napkins wrapped in cling film as a temporary bandage to get you through service. Actually seen one lads finger tip been swiped to the side while the other lad tried to rescue the food on the chopping board.


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