Wallace and Daly

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761356#Comment_118761356

Yep. There's much talk of late how the Russians love their 'strongmen' and get the leaders they deserve, well we deserve the same, only we love chancers and gombeen men and women.

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761433#Comment_118761433

I remember some clown on here years ago saying - "Sure, you'd do the same if you were a TD."

One of the TDs out near where my family lives has been found out for insurance fraud and has had "issues" with expenses...and yet members of my family still vote for him.

"We've always voted for Party X. We're voting tactically!"

Sure...

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759428#Comment_118759428

The worst thing about it is the false equivalence.

They seem to think dictator and autocratic regimes are equivalent to democratic ones and should be treated by the same standards.

They get away with that in times of peace because they are ignored. Not so much when war breaks out. When you land yourself on a tiny list of moronic imbeciles who don't know the difference between right and wrong and embarrass the country in the process like they have done it's hard to see how they get elected again.

Shameful. You'd hope people remember.

maestroamado

As a people we are cute hoor's which is kindof OK... It does not fit with responsibility/accountability...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763964#Comment_118763964

Thanks for the update - I missed that story. Don't think I can delete my comment, so I'll report myself!

Subzero3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758032#Comment_118758032

If a colleague did that in work they would be sacked on the spot.

Yurt2

Just had a quick nose on Twitter at who is retweeting and tagging Moscow Mick and Kremlin Clare.

Loads and loads of Russian and Chinese bots. And...the Goebbels-eque Wolf-Warrior in chief Lijian Zhao giving a signal boost...

Utterly embarrassing. They're far beyond useful idiot territory now and into George Galloway land.

https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1501948052047011841

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118768868#Comment_118768868

Jesus Christ. It appears that she gets her information from crackpot boards.ie posters.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770397#Comment_118770397

Thought she was going to explode

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771554#Comment_118771554

I was at an event many years ago where she turned up (This was before she was a TD). Anyway, she managed to get the floor and just went off on a complete rant like that about the government ..... even though it had nothing to do with the event. She somehow got the floor, got a mic, did her irrelevant rant about the government, and left.

Pure populist guff to get herself on the gravy train. I was surprised to see a few years later that she actually got elected.

Listen to what she says in that clip about the situation in Ukraine. "The lives of innocent civilians are sacrificed in the wars of their masters - not just in Ukraine".

Sinister sinister propaganda. Obviously she is implying that Zelenksyy just decided to sacrifice the people he is master over for his own war. For someone who ostensibly claims to be a supporter of the ordinary worker, it would seem a bit strange to be taking the side of an absolutely corrupt imperialist multi-billionaire dictator who has stolen vasts sums of wealth from the citizens of his own country.

Nordner

Just because someone doesn't tow the line on Ukraine as per the narrative we are being fed via every msm platform available, does not mean they are an apologist or supporter of Putin.

If I were to say that the Treaty of Versailles was so onerous that it, coupled with the Wall Street Crash, led directly to the rise of fascism in Germany and WW2 (which is a fairly broadly accepted concept), does that make me a Hitler fan?

Nothing in this world is ever black & white if examined closely.

People are behaving like kids playing cowboys and Indians or cops and robbers. Truth is, there are no good guys.

Nevertheless, I would much rather be living under our western democratic system, flawed and all as that may be, than suffocated under oppressive, kleptocratic regimes like Putin's or Xi's.

If people really gave a ****, we would boycott all pariah states (Like the oil rich Gulf monarchies, China etc) and not just Russia.

Why do we not open our doors to the people in Yemen? Is it because they are dark skinned Muslims, or because US and UK are happily providing the Saudis with weapons and logistical support to bomb these poor people into the stone-age as part of their proxy wars with Iran?

Discuss.....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771909#Comment_118771909

The Ukranian refugees have a good track record for behaviour. With regards the middle east, they seem to bring their blood fueds with them. For example Kurds vs Turks in germany, antisemetism rising across europe, homophic attacks and sharia patrols in europeand cities.

rolling boh

Have this pair actually come up with any practical ideas on how to actually get these diplomatic talks going in any of the war zones that they are going on about ? . I agree terrible things have gone on but some actual solutions would be better than mouthing off mainly against the USA and Nato every chance they get .

Nordner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771929#Comment_118771929

Oh great, so, we will vet all future refugees based on their track record of behaviour...how is that gonna work?

We have had a few murders and attacks here perpetrated by Eastern Europeans lately....by your logic, should we not lump the Ukrainians in with them and bar them all from coming here? Should we demand Larry Murphy return to the old sod in case he goes on a murder spree around Europe?

I thought the whole outpouring of grief in that Tullamore murder case was way over the top as well btw. RIP the poor girl but the whole # social media, virtue signalling rubbish and the public vigils etc were mental....if memory serves me correctly, a Taxi Driver in Blanch, a few months into the first Pandemic lockdown, chopped his missus up in the front room with a Samurai sword while their son was banging on the door trying to intervene....Surely that was a perfect, if somewhat extreme, example of the horrors of domestic violence and violence against women? Where were all the vigils for that lady? Oh yeah, that's right, wrong demographic...working-class Taxi Drivers wife...now if she had been a young teacher who played trad music....

The whole Ukrainian crisis smacks of the very same hypocrisy. It was ok when Putin was laying waste to Chechnya, or US and Co destroying Afghanistan and Iraq...once again, wrong demographic...brown, Muslim, odd customs, corrupt etc...

Ukrainians look like us, they aren't as far away, therefore they are more worthy of our concern and assistance.

Georgians in 2008? Meh! Who cares!? They are mental fuckers out there anyway...

So, 100,000 Ukranians coming...won't that be nice for ISME and IBEC and all the cheap ass employers who are bitching and whining about labour shortages in the construction, manufacturing and hospitality sectors...

The wonders of the free market and open economy in action....until all the masters of the universe types come a knocking on our door again looking for bailouts because their shortsighted greed has run the car off the cliff again.....

Of course, it could be worse I suppose....it could all end up in WW3 and nuclear annihilation...

Have a nice weekend y'all! 😂

blackwhite

https://twitter.com/wallacemick/status/1504139126790291457?s=21

Not even trying to hide that he’s a Putin shill at this stage.

Podge_irl

If I were to say that the Treaty of Versailles was so onerous that it, coupled with the Wall Street Crash, led directly to the rise of fascism in Germany and WW2 (which is a fairly broadly accepted concept), does that make me a Hitler fan?

If you said it while German bombs were raining down on Poland/Netherlands/London it would be, at best, pointless whataboutism in the face of tyranny.

There is a time and a place for analysing the macro-political reasoning behind something and indeed to learn from it. It is not while you face an existential crisis of your country's existence. However, a key point is that generally no one blames those behind the Treaty of Versailles but rather put the blame fairly squarely on **** Hitler.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795701#Comment_118795701

Unbelievable stuff, what a horrible person Wallace is.

Poor auld Mick with his family vineyard in Italy, and heaps of money stacked away.

The most satisfying thing about his twitter scutter is that most of the pirate flag crew still actually agree with him, but don't have the principals of their position now that Russia are invading a country.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795701#Comment_118795701

I'd say Mick is more suited to his own former profession as well.

A dodgy builder who didn't pay his debts, stole pension money from his employees and defrauded the revenue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118797281#Comment_118797281

And, by defrauding the Revenue, he defrauded the taxpayers - including the clueless morons who voted for him.

SouthWesterly

As

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819572#Comment_118819572

Sure look at lowry and calleary. They got voted in time and again.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118820142#Comment_118820142

tax cheating by a public rep is a shameful act but until they side with a megalomanic war criminal by pushing his agenda Wallace is by some degree the worst ive ever met from wexford , and i know some right cnuts from wexford

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760165#Comment_118760165

Can you imagine? And we have posters on here who see that as being bullying worse than being a group of male thugs imprisoning a woman in her car for two hours shouting obscene protests at her.

Galwayguy35

Daly was on a fair oul rant today over in Brussels, you know its bad when Matt Cooper asked Paul Murphy to comment on what she said after the clip was played and even he admitted he wasn't sure what she was talking about.

Frank Bullitt

Some absolute waffle from Daly yet again, dressed like a teenager who is pissed off at her folks for not letting her go to the Green Day concert.

Both these clowns, I hope people remember the vile garbage coming from their mouths during all of this next time they vote.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118768868#Comment_118768868

Her speech was wonderful true humanitarian. Unfortunately, her speech will be sidelined by the reptilians.

Today was a good day, as it was the start of the end of Mick Wallace, Clare Daly, Paul Murphy, Brid Smith, Richard Boyd Barrett, and even poor auld Gino. They believe in their ideology, and that ideology is the reason they are a blip in popular support.

Shame on them.

sam t smith

Gino should stick to the fight to legalise the drugs.

Lillyfae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891900#Comment_118891900

I don't know, RBB being followed on Twitter by Gigi Hadid last week and I received a vid of Clare Daly's speech from a non-Irish friend yesterday saying how right she is. I rolled my eyes so hard they nearly got stuck, going to have to be very careful what kind of conversations I have with them from now on. Your "start of the end" is someone else's "gaining traction". So sick of conspiracy theorists, all kinds of deniers, pro-Putin shills etc and there are more of them every day because both sides are toxic at the inner edge of their extremities.

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891398#Comment_118891398

😂😂😂. I presume that is good sarcasm

foxsake

Clare Daly is right. Sanctions only effect the poor to a significant degree. Sure some yachts and investments seized off the rich but they aren't going hungry and can holiday in China, Dubai (and Israel ) We had a decade of sanctions in Iraq and it only harmed the normal people of Iraq. Some of her critics have short or non existent memories.

Since half the world will continue to trade with Russia , the only serious impact sanctions will have is on us in Europe. Russia will sell its natural resources to other and the grains , fertilizer etc...

Why? All for a geopolitical row between elites and hyper wealthy? Europe is being led by the nose by warmongers in the USA who have ties to the big corporate entitles within the military industrial complex.

As always with war the poor die so the rich can divide the assets and not one of the rich will have a scratch .

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892622#Comment_118892622

I think you went wrong at "why?"

The answer is nothing to do with elites. Russia invaded a sovereign nation and continues to wage a war against civilians, murdering them in their homes. We are applying sanctions as a non escalating resistance to these war crimes. The Russians may well sell some of their product elsewhere but there will be less demand, therefore they will get a lower price and make less profit. This is seen as a better alternative to engaging them in physical conventional war, far from being warmongers. There is some kind of dissonance going on here, in that you want to protect global trade and corporate profits from sanctions so that eu citizens can have a better lifestyle at the expense of poorer ukrainians who are murdered in their own country. Would you prefer full military conflict with russia? Allow genocide to proceed in Ukraine and leave Russia unchallenged? Or accept the impact of sanctions?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893130#Comment_118893130

Excellent response.

It seems the likes of Clare Daly want to allow the Russians to kill as many Ukrainians as they wish.

Montage of Feck

The useful idiots always end up on the side of unrestricted free trade in a round about way.

fly_agaric

The sanctions on Iraq caused poverty, but also severely damaged & degraded Saddam's military (as emerged during & then after Iraq invasion).

Therefore they restricted his ability to do any more adventuring or invading post Gulf War 1, and hobbled Iraq's ability to develop & manufacture those infamous "WMDs".

They do the same to North Korea today where despite I'm sure spending an unholy % of all the resources they have on the military (including their nuclear programme) given the poverty of the country, if they tried any conventional attack on S. Korea or Japan, they would not have a prayer.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118894082#Comment_118894082

In the same vein as Madeleine Albright ...the dead kids were worth it . wow.

the correct reasoning saddam and iraq were pretty bollocked after the iran/iraq war....and who supported him then... rumsfeld and co.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893130#Comment_118893130

a good reply but in a sense misguided.

If Ukraine under the current leadership hadn't courted NATO and the west then this probably won't have happened.

I don't know what the true answer is - Im no warhawk of the rumfeld type so i'd try avoid war - but doing something (sanctions) isn't always better than doing nothing. Send Macron to Putin again to do whatever diplomacy they do.

It's a fair point to say I'm protecting global trade and maybe I am - but my end point is our population who haven't a hand in the fight.

Ultimately if we ( I mean Eu not necessarily Ireland) didn't outsource half our needs to far away places (and occasional enemies like China) we could be somewhat self reliant but we aren't. Another days discussion,.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893146#Comment_118893146

an whopper response of your own - its' as if the whole sanction thing is stopping this....which it's not. Not mind putting words in Dalys mouth that she never said.

Its amazing how the public (and our politicians/media too) can champion something even if it doesn't have the desired effect and we all know this. Sanction may bite but not for a long time.. sure it makes the public feel good to impose sanctions and steal a few yachts but the sum effect is near fcuk all to those we are targeting.

the less than elite will feel this a lot more. that's dalys point and my agreement. nothing of the type typed about - not you @joseywhales

fly_agaric

@foxsake Why the "Wow"?

You said "Clare Daly is right. Sanctions only effect the poor to a significant degree."

Clare Daly is wrong. You were also wrong, in that those Iraq sanctions did remove Saddam's ability to rebuild his military after the US coalition destroyed it during the 1st Gulf war. They were able to invade a smaller neighbour after Iran-Iraq war so they were not "bolloxed". Similar argument applies to N. Korea and Iran, big armies and modern weapons needed to go about invading others are very expensive, take alot of resources. Even more to put them to use in waging a war rather than have them sit there.

I didn't pass comment on morality/correctness of those particular sanctions but I think the EU/US etc. sanctioning Russia now, or even putting a complete trade embargo on it later (as regards trade with the EU/US) when they are able to do that is justified, given its policies (you know, the whole unfortunate effort at conquering a democratic neighbour that did nothing to them and trying to wipe it from the map, oh and the brutal tactics they are using in their war as well).

Those opposing the actions are in effect supporting Russia/Putin here IMO, esp. if they have some political power and voice like an MEP does (even if that is limited).

You are now bringing up more irrelevant stuff (Rumsfeld and US foreign policy), why I do not know.

Podge_irl

If Ukraine under the current leadership hadn't courted NATO and the west then this probably won't have happened.

🙄 Utter fantasy. Indeed, if Ukraine had stayed under the implicit control of Russia and happily been led towards puppet status then they wouldn't have been invaded. How tempting.

There is no reason for the West to continue trading with a nation that is bringing war to their doorstep. Why should they have a normal relationship with Russia? Half the damage of the sanctions was happening voluntarily anyway - the import of oil from Russia has shuddered to close to a halt without any actual bans yet in place. Maersk stopped shipment of all but essentials to Russia without any ban in place.

It's also hard to avoid war when someone else invades your country.

Brucie Bonus

Keep it country folks....

Much of the European Parliament’s resolution is important and necessary. It correctly condemns the invasion and calls for humanitarian support for Ukraine and Ukrainian refugees. These are terms we wholeheartedly supported. Contrary to claims we voted “against condemning Russian aggression,” we did in fact vote for these clauses, during the votes on amendments. Check the record.

But the resolution also calls to accelerate provision of military equipment and weapons to Ukraine, to strengthen NATO’s forward presence, to further increase defence spending, and to activate European common and joint defence efforts “in order to strengthen the European pillar within NATO.” It also, opportunistically, calls for throwing open the European energy market to fracked liquefied natural gas (LNG) from the United States. Our political group, the Left, sought to remove these elements from the resolution, but the majority in the European Parliament fought to keep them. We had to vote on the text as a whole, which included these calls. Our vote was not against condemning Russian aggression. It was against flooding Ukraine with weapons. It was against a retaliatory spiral of military escalation, endangering all of Europe. It was against cynically exploiting a invasion of Ukraine to advance the interests of the fossil fuel industry during a climate crisis, endangering the whole planet.

Dismissing Daly getting harrassed because of how she votes kinda pisses all over a colleague calling someone an 'effin ejit' being a bridge too far. But then that's complete hypocrisy for you.

No point in criticism based on blarney.

Podge_irl

Yes, they are happy to condemn the invasion but want absolutely nothing done to actually aid Ukraine in fighting it. They want to say "this is bad but Ukraine should now roll over and accept it". Its pathetic.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118895995#Comment_118895995

We had a theme going based on made up stuff, but yeah they seem to be away with the faries.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118895995#Comment_118895995

You have summed up Daly very neatly there. Pretending to support Ukraine while not wanting anyone to raise a hand to help them. To be fair to her though, herself, Wallace, PBP and RBB have stuck to their guns on this which shows a certain amount of principle, no matter how misguided that is. Others have run away, pretending they never said things on the public record.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893146#Comment_118893146

Brid Smith is no better. Heard her yesterday on radio saying sanctions against Israel was good because the palastinians asked for them against their oppressors even though they affected ordinary Israelis while Ukraine asking for them against Russia was wrong because it was inflicting hardship in Russians.

I thought this couldn't be just made up but I'm not convinced in her case

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892622#Comment_118892622

utter nonsense.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118895338#Comment_118895338

courted nato...ffs they are an independent nation.

whats your solution if no sanctions and no aid? like Daly you have nothing i'd imagine.

talking of elites while a popularly supported Russian president is murdering women and children ..ffs

If people like you existed in 1939 the World was fucked. thankfully there was less platforms.

Yurt2

This is it. Daly and Wallace offer mealy mouthed condemnations that clearly pains them to deliver, but the meat on the bone is offering military aid to Ukraine so that it may survive, and sanctions to Russia to limit their ability to wage this war - and Wallace and Daly want nothing to do with it.

The condemnations are only offered up reluctantly because they'd be completely snookered otherwise.

As the Germans say, they are classic Putinverstehers.

Homelander

The person above arguing sanctions are the wrong move also opened their statement with the classic from the Daly/Murphy/Wallace playbook.

"But...NATO!"

It's time to live in the here and now and stop given oxygen to this utter uninformed, willfully misleading nonsense. I suppose next it'll be Finland's fault if they're invaded for wanting, as a sovereign country, to join NATO as well.

No, couldn't possibly be solely the fault of archaic dictator-led Russia, which is still operating from the Stalin handbook and is pushing terrified, independent countries towards the alliance due to its sickening war-mongering and blatant disregard for morals, ethics, or law.

Anyway, so it's no to arms for Ukraine. No to support for Ukraine. Yet, also no to sanctions on Russia.

So...what's the solution then?

I mean, I know they argue "diplomacy is the way forward" but how could one seriously say that with a straight face with talking about Vladimir Putin, the man who's said Ukraine shouldn't exist and is deliberately targeting civilians and destroying infrastructure, having invaded with zero justification in the first instance.

Effectively what they are saying is, Ukraine should just accept defeat and allow Putin to erase their national identify, and purge their country of anything and anyone he deems a threat, in so far as a threat to a dictator of his ilk could include anyone with formal education like schoolteachers and doctors.

Also, sanctions are absolutely the correct way forward. As the noose tightens on the Russian economy and ability to import vital materials for the war effort plummets, they cannot keep their war machine going indefinitely and will have to find a way out sooner rather than later.

Putin does not care about ordinary people. He only cares about what he wants. If there were no sanctions he would just keep going until Ukraine is a wasteland like Chechyna was. Precisely because there is international support including hefty sanctions, he literally is already incapable of doing this and he cannot win.

Also, please for the love of god I wish people would stop saying "but sanctions didn't stop North Korea" or wherever else. OK? In what sense? It certainly has curtailed them severely and certainly stopped them being nations capable of waging aggressive war outside their own borders.

North Korea, Iraq, wherever. Severe sanctions don't have to actually cause revolution to achieve the desired effect, not sure why some people use this as a yardstick of success.

Likewise, elites remaining wealthy and owning yachts or whatever other irrelevant examples get thrown around means absolutely nothing in terms of how effective sanctions are.

I'm sure Kim Jong Un lives in a palace, has a fleet of super-cars, eats steak every night and sleeps in silk sheets....his country is still a medieval-level backwater with a military that's about 7 decades out of date.....not to mention, training and maintenance of same is awful or non existant.

We see it already with Russia. $60bn a year yet look how shoddy their leadership, training, doctrine and equipment are. North Korea spends $1.5bn a year despite having one of the biggest armies in the world. You can imagine what that looks like, in reality, in terms of actual combat capability.

Anyone who tries to claim sanctions achieve nothing against Russia is either willfully sowing misinformation or just innocently ignorant.

Anyone who argues diplomacy alone is the only way forward with Putin is either living on another planet altogether, or is actually expressing an opinion that Ukraine should roll over and allow itself to be purged and gutted ala the Nazi and Soviet approach to creating greater states.

Brucie Bonus

Private profits, the economy (where it suits private profits) and using Russian fuels far outweigh any dead or raped children we might see on the news. The world is not doing enough to help Ukraine. If they were a wee starlet in Africa it wouldn't even be news.

Putin figured we'd be all mouth and no trousers and he was right.

If he thought invading Ukraine would result in western intervention he would have thought twice but we sat on our hands when he took crimea so we are were we are.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898816#Comment_118898816

So you disagree with Daly on sanctions?