Wallace and Daly

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920949#Comment_118920949

He's confusing 'socialist types' with Fine Gael and a UN researcher.

You're confusing the Jewish faith with apartheid lsrael.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920575#Comment_118920575

European powers had the upper hand in recent centuries so they colonised. Other powers also colonised and set up their own empires bu that was either further back in history, or else they were eventually overpowered. If European powers had not had the upper hand, it is not that there would have been no colonisation - more that they would have instead been colonised.

Much of that colonisation drive by European powers was down to them coming to terms with the fact they couldn't really do it within Europe and came to a vague agreement they wouldn't try(for the most part). Since Rome fell a goodly number tried to kick off a New Rome within Europe, but it rarely lasted long. Even Hitler's war was trying that for size, as was Napoleon's. The geopolitics didn't work so well, so instead they looked beyond Europe's shores to build empires.

China and the Caliphate were already empires so this was much less in play. The Chinese had their own brief age of exploration in their neck of the woods, but gave up on it very quickly. They had to defend their own borders rather than create new ones and more problems. The small in size European powers outsourced. Their age of exploration was hand in glove with empire building. When Europeans did fight each other they tended to do it more by proxy and overseas, because it was too damned destructive back home. Rome had been an empire of course and a very powerful and advanced one for many centuries, so they didn't really bother with much by way of exploration.

This internal competion also drove innovation like crazy. So when gunpowder rocked up in Europe from China, where it had been used as a weapon but in quite limited ways, the first European nation who got it built on it, then their neighbours got wind of it, copied and built on it again and you had a pan European arms race, which gives you advancements in chemistry, metallurgy and ballistics and all that comes from that. Same for other "foreign" innovations like the compass, the rudder, printing. The pressures to improve on stuff like that was far higher in Europe than pretty much anywhere else on the planet. That spilled into the sciences and arts too. That's where their upper hand largely came from.

Another aspect was Europe was much harder to invade and take over because of all these small states with well honed militaries within it. Empires are centralised so to take over you take over the heart of the empire, bump off the emperor and crown yourself. The rest of the empire will generally just continue on under new management. You attack Europe and lets say you take out the Poles, which will hurt, then the Hungarians, well you haven't taken Europe. You then have to deal with the Italians(avoid the Swiss like the plague) the Germans are in play, then the Poles will probably fight back seeing you have your hands full and then you have to deal with the French which for most of European history good luck with that sunshine. Never mind the Spanish and Portuguese, or the Russians at your back for that matter. The Islamic world at her peak had a damned good go, but even they realised feck this for a game of soldiers.

Other factors were things like greater social mobility that really kicked off after the plague also drove innovation. Gutenburg was a goldsmith and radically improved mechanical printing. In China it would be more likely that because he was a goldsmith he wouldn't have been listened to and his climb through the social orders would have been more difficult(state exams and sometimes the military were pretty much the only way to rise above one's station). The other factor was though Rome had fallen in the west, the Roman church hadn't so until the Reformation there had been a two tier rule across the continent. One the temporal that fought among different groups, the other a more binding force, though there was much back and forth. The Reformation just added to the internal competition and the powerbase moved northwards.

Even oddball things like the simple European alphabet had an impact. Printing was born in China but the old joke about a Chinese typewriter needing a two metre wide keyboard was in play. In the Islamic world the scribes were king and printing looked to take the bread from their mouths and the text is far more complex. In Europe with around thirty letters you could print pretty much anything in most of the languages. Another was glass. European ceramics were way behind Chinese and their porcelain, but we had glass instead. Porcelain is great, but you can't make lenses from it. Lenses which help people stay informed and useful as their eyes age, lenses that can build telescopes and microscopes etc and all that brings with it.

Add in easy and extensive sea routes and loads of navigable rivers and a temporate climate in most of Europe and it was pretty much inevitable that Europe would become a, if not the world superpower. The British had the largest empire in history, now on top of the pink of the maps back then add in the Dutch, the French, the Portuguese, the Spanish, the Belgian, even the Russian which is still the largest nation on Earth and outside of China(and even then for a time) the World was a European empire.

Then post WW2 that all faded away and America a European colony took over, alongside the Soviet Union, a European empire pointing armageddon at each other. While the Chinese looked on thinking oh FFS not these round eyed pricks again. Just mostly ignore them and maybe they'll feck off. 😁 A position they largely still work by, though are no doubt pinching themselves that the West made them their manufacturing base... Africa for the most part was WTF just happened? The Middle East was WTF is happening?

But I digress... 😊😁

Miniegg

I see Le Pen want's to cut off arms to Ukraine too, along with our two.

I guess one of those strange situations where those on the left and the right want the same things. Then again, at least we know Le Pen has been funded by Russian banks.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-marine-le-pen-macron-moscow-d79b5ddd4fe93ebef39da900d99b22da

mikethecop

the left right thing is a bit of a distraction with people like that ,

its just self serving greed and infantile attention seeking really

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118916651#Comment_118916651

At what point have i defended actions of russia/putin

Deal in facts & logic,not your rather depraved imagination

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918583#Comment_118918583

Her central core that increased diplomacy & dialogue will be what ends this war,is essentially true.....the fact people get abused/demonised for commonsense points of view,is perlplexing

She may be a gowl,but not entirely wrong...lads jumping up and down demanding sanctions,fcuk diplomats out etc,

while at same time,cool off on giving proper assistance to ukraine in terms of arms/air assistance for fear of nuclear war,seems to me,speaking out both sides of the mouth,while ukrainins get slaughtered.

Podge_irl

Her central core that increased diplomacy & dialogue will be what ends this war,is essentially true

No, it is completely and utterly false. False to its very core.

Russia quite clearly has no interest in diplomacy. They have made this abundantly clear. This ends in Ukrainian capitulation or Russian acceptance that their goals are militarily impossible.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931863#Comment_118931863

Unlikely that Ukraine will capitulate and unlikely Russia get the military victory they wanted, now maybe they do a runner as the US did in Vietnam but overwhelming likely that this war will be resolved through some form of dialogue and negotiations.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931822#Comment_118931822

What she misses is that diplomacy itself won't end a war where the two sides are too far apart in their national policy. In this case, something has to force one or both sides to be more amenable so that the diplomatic end can make progress.

Furthermore, judging by that speech she made in the EUP a few days ago, she seems to be of the opinion that we should just 'let nature take its course' and are only prolonging the inevitable by supplying weapons to Ukraine. This is incredibly arrogant and could make no one wonder why Daly has been called a Russian shill. It belittles the right of Ukraine to defend itself, and in defending itself to ask for help and to get that help.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931930#Comment_118931930

But the keeping diplomatic channels open and increasing it,particularly in war time.is meritable,if it stops a single missicle or massacre,its surely worth it??

The dripfeed of help/sanctions is fundamentally too slow,either escalate it to full limits,face down nuclear threat,but this war could drag on years and leave millions innocent dead at current rate of progress

The all out attack from media,whom done same to john hume,for talking with adams (some of vilist stuff said about him at time,bears testamont to our establishment class,most of whom still hold promenice here)....while simutaneously expect us all to forget,when they laud him correct decades later

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931894#Comment_118931894

Which will only come about if Russia accepts that they can not succeed militarily. Nothing will start before that.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931999#Comment_118931999

But you now do accept that negotiations are likely at some point and not 'No, it is completely and utterly false. False to its very core' that you stated earlier.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931930#Comment_118931930

It seems 55% of Irish people agree with her on sending arms to Ukraine and 66% with her on Irish military neutrality.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932022#Comment_118932022

Negotiations are not what will end the war, Russia being defeated on the battlefield (not necessarily driven out of Ukraine, but reaching the point they can achieve no military goal) is what will end it. Ukraine can not and will not agree to any of Russia's actual demands.

Negotiations may happen at the end of the war, but they are not what will end it. Its not just semantics - they could talk til the cows come home at the moment and it won't accomplish a thing.

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932031#Comment_118932031

Nice use of deliberately presenting info as misleading.

55% of Irish people agreed that Ireland should not directly send military weapons to Ukraine.

55% of Irish people absolutely did not agree that weapons should not be sent to Ukraine full stop as advocated by Daly - that question was not asked.

Furthermore 70% said they support tougher sanctions against Russia, starkly at odds with Dalys position.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931987#Comment_118931987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118916438#Comment_118916438

So the Bully Russia should win?

As its the aggressor, that's the only outcome if she doesn't fully withdraw from where she's not wanted

She wins territory via invasion in the 21st century

Have you absolutely no self awareness at all as a SF supporter on here?,assuming you believe the 6 counties are occupied

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932172#Comment_118932172

Where anywhere have i said russia should win?

I have no bother calling for military escalation and proper help to ukrainines to defend their country,not this pricking about with sanctions

while also agreeing with her as regards increased diplomacy/peace efforts,and ultimaely this war being resolved in a room somewhere.

Homelander

But how does it make sense; a view that there should be no arms, but pure diplomacy, when dealing with someone like Putin.

If there were no sanctions or military aid; if Russias economy wasn't hurting and it wasn't taking a massive mauling in Ukraine; what would diplomacy even result in?

Putin's invasion had one clear aim - decapitation of Government, installation of puppet subservient to Moscow and removal of opposition - basically render Ukraine as a satellite state devoid of leadership or identity separate from Russia.

Talking about diplomacy being the sole answer is absolute horse manure of the highest degree.

The fact that Ukraine has fought valiantly and given Russia an unimaginable hiding only tenfold increases their diplomacy power.

Ukraine wants a diplomatic solution as much as anyone....just not one that basically amounts to "hand over your country or we will destroy you".

Anyone who believes that diplomacy alone is the path forward, and sanctions and military aid shouldn't have happened, is living in another galaxy altogether.

What Clare Daly is basically saying is Ukraine should just bend over the table and give Russia everything it wants and just sign the country away. She's a contrarian nutjob with zero credibility, who, like the rest of them, is obsessed with what the US is up to and has made it her core identity.... and has zero consistency for that matter.

I was indifferent to her ramblings before but her and the likes of Paul Murphy who turn everything into "But NATO" and "But the US" and other nonsensical whataboutery sicken me at this point.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932223#Comment_118932223

Do you think diplomacy will get them out of Donbas and Crimea?

Laughable if you do

Ergo you are advocating a win for Russia

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932172#Comment_118932172

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932508#Comment_118932508

What's the time limit? When would the people in Donbas and Crimea move from freedom fighters to terrorists? After a faux statelet overseen by Moscow is set up? Just curious. There are people live there now consider themselves Russian.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932508#Comment_118932508

Oh deary me,your comprehension skills are so poor,you failed to make it to the 2nd paragraph in my post

I have no bother calling for military escalation and proper help to ukrainines to defend their country,not this pricking about with sanctions

Quite how you have interpeted this as advocating for as a win for russia,is beyond me,

It looks almost as if yous have zero interest in plight of ukrainines,perfering to instead to misrepresent fellow posters on a msg board (one can only speculate as to why)....but surely noone would be of such sub-par moral character to use the slaughter of ukrainies,for purposes of WUMing

No reason both,diplomacy and military assistance on ground, cant work hand-in-hand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932579#Comment_118932579

Tbf the donbas was to been granted some form of semi-autonomy in minsk agreement in 2014

I think at best russia could hope for at this juncture is to see that enforced by outside overseers of the UN/EU,and likely sacrafice several generals/senior military organisers to a war crime.commission

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932587#Comment_118932587

Lol make your mind up

The Russians are liars and aggressors with no grá for diplomacy

Just pretense

You clearly don't understand sanctions either or just don't want to

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932645#Comment_118932645

As ive said,both can go hand-in-hand,one wont work,without the other ffs....

only person to rule out,what will be, the realistic endpoint here is your good self.....do you honestly believe,this wont be ended in negociations brought about through intermediateries??

Russia has near endless resources/manpower to throw at this war,and a willingness to go deeper into the mire of warcrimes, than one can imagine,

without a military assistance to ukraine,they wont simply wont enter negociations as they will grind on through a military stalemate,that neither will win(ukraine will lose its best people/soldiers),

in a stalemate situation,diplomacy and a way-out for all,is most imperative to build trust and find solutions....

sanctions may speed it up,but its merely theorical,and pointless without proper assistance,that poor ukraine prime minister is pleading with weeks for arms/no-fly zone....irelands solution,continue allow russian money through ifsc,but ban kerrygold being sold in moscow?

I think there's enough putin bottery/usefully idiocy in this thread from one or two without me entertaining it any further

The fact of the matter is crimea and the Donbass were siezed,removed of any semblance of democracy by a country with none

Useful idiocy in acquiescence is shameful,stupid immoral and obviously utter hypocrisy when it comes from Republican quarters which it did officially untill 2 months ago when it was dropped with the sincerity of a cat swing at a rat,going on what I'm reading here

In the Case of Wallace and Daly,its just plain ignorance I think

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932799#Comment_118932799

Nothing quiet like veiled personal attacks at other posters,when you simply dont wish to have subject matter discussed👏👏

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932799#Comment_118932799

I think you're confusing people who want a UI with politicians you don't like. We don't all represent political parties.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932821#Comment_118932821

Says the fellah that questioned my compression skills upthread,which frankly I ignored

You're joining my ignore list

Best place for all the balderdash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933016#Comment_118933016

Tbf you failed to read the post,which ya quoted,felt the observation was reasonable🤷‍♂️

If you wanted evidence of the despicable crap Wallace and Daly lend their names to,its this 👇

https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435?t=0pATo_doVbjv_ltSFResFg&s=19

Hotblack Desiato

Wallace and Daly tried to get the author barred from the European Parliament for asking them questions they'd rather not answer. Says it all about them. Anyone who voted for them last time out really needs to have a rethink.

Kermit.de.frog

People will forget by the time of the next election.

Hopefully it's made sure they remember all of this.

They are embarrassing all of us at the moment.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936356#Comment_118936356

You are aware that they have absolutely no power to get journalists banned from the EP? She's is entitled to ask any question she likes and they are equally entitled to ignore her, completely the right thing to do when dealing with a journalist who's only goal is to damage you.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936437#Comment_118936437

Who appointed you to speak on behalf of 'all of us'?

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934931#Comment_118934931

Poor Naomi, she's spent ten months allegedly researching this and produced two pages of stuff that is already on the public record, the MEPs make no effort to conceal it and any newly registered undergrad student with access to lexisnexis through their library could produce the same stuff in a couple of hours. Embarrassing stuff from her really!

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936502#Comment_118936502

I did. You're welcome.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936497#Comment_118936497

Isn't it just terrible that we don't have robust protections against such outrages such as reporting facts?

Journalists wouldn't get away with such violations of human rights in more civilised and developed societies like Russia. I know for a fact that all journalists over there know how to behave properly, and when one of them malfunctions and does something mean towards a politician, such is the feeling of shame and disgrace, that they usually shoot themselves in the head 4 or 5 times or have an accident and fall out of a window.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936587#Comment_118936587

You have "unusual" heroes MFPM.

On the other thread you appear to have the horn for posh-boy rich kid Murphy and now you are running in to battle for two convicted criminals. Both have spent time in jail). One of whom stole pension money from his employees and also stole from the Revenue - by extension from the State and everyone in it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936514#Comment_118936514

A lot of journalism involves compiling things on the public record and you seem intent on defending the two of them. At this stage they're becoming genocide apologists cause there's no signs of a willingness for real negotiations from Putin. Meanwhile more and more atrocities are coming to light and the two of them don't seem to even give them a mention.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936539#Comment_118936539

I'm sure you know what you're rabbiting about! Oh BTW Julian Assange and Ed Snowden and Khassahogi would like a word in your shelllike....oh wait they cant'!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936615#Comment_118936615

Any other irrelevant things ya'd like to rant about to try to distract? Osama Bin Laden maybe?

We're you not aware that Wallace stole his employees pension contributions? Or that he defrauded the revenue?

Or that both were convicted and served time in prison?

All this lady did was collate publicly available material. It was useful for her to do so as most of it appeared on foreign language media which Irish people would not read. I'm sure the pair (and yourself for some reason) would prefer for it to be hushed up, but unfortunately we have free press in this country.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936600#Comment_118936600

What a pathetic response.Please indicate one line where I mentioned anyone as a hero?

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936610#Comment_118936610

I didn't defend anything, I clarified inaccurate statements and ridiculed the standard of journalism.

'Genocidal apologists' - care to go on record with your actual name with that Pearl of wisdom, c'mon brave man money where your mouth is?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936657#Comment_118936657

Ah, so you don't support Wallace and Daly after all. I'm glad that you are also able to see through their crap and see them from the shysters they are. Thanks for clarifying.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936640#Comment_118936640

Hushed up, they published it, podcast it, tweeted it FFS...What were they trying to hide FFS. Naomi is engaged in really disingenuous journalism and she knows it!

Yurt2

@MFPM

Wallace submitted an amendmemt to a European parliament resolution that sought to remove the Dutch investigation findings that the BUK missile platform that downed MH17 and killed 200+ people (including 80 children) belonged to the Russian military and was transferred both in-and-out of the DNR on the day of the crime.

That's a disgusting use of the mandate given by the people of Ireland South and I'm calling on you to condemn it.

The man is a fascist flunkie waster, and the people who spent even a second defending him are no better.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937036#Comment_118937036

Jaysus. All these years I've said Daly, and later Wallace, were populist chancers ............ I never knew I was a shill for Nato. Should I have been getting paid? Would ya say it's too late to submit an invoice?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936699#Comment_118936699

Ah, so this Naomi is engaging in disingenuous journalism by publishing stuff that everyone apparently knew anyway and that Wallace and Daly themselves published and podcasted and tweeted?

Hardly worth upsetting yourself over it now if everyone already knew it?

If I re-tweeted something Wallace puts up tonight, I'll be engaging in disingenuous journalism as well I suppose.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936699#Comment_118936699

What was disingenuous about it (do you have examples, if you mean the article)? Did you even read it?

I thought it was good and useful to know that Russia and China find their public statements etc. very useful for their propaganda and deploy them to bolster it. That was the main point, I think.

The stuff about the "Golden Lion King" nick (ha) + the Chinese Little Pinkies online really liking Wallace was quite fascinating (edit: in a morbid kind of way). Every days a school day I suppose.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937036#Comment_118937036

Great lord almighty, you stand over that the invasion isn't going to happen and it's all a Western media plot?

Newsflash from reality, the invasion happened. You're posts from pre-invasion haven't aged well, and neither are your posts in defence of the disgusting behaviour of Wallace and Daly.