The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

History Queen

BettyS wrote: »

Our DOB is linked to our PPS. This is stored on a national database. How do you think that the national screening programme just magically sends an appointment on the right date? The government can access this information in the interest of public safety (a pandemic will fulfil this criterion)

I didn't realise that was the system being used or that there was such a system with everyone's details on one database. Are you sure? I don't get texts from a national screening programme. I get letters from Cervical Check which I had to register for. What happened with the older people who were on the news last week because they still hadn't been vaccinated? One was a lady in her 90s.

BettyS

Logistically, making a priority system, for the reasons outlined very well by triangle will just slow down our vaccine programme. Surely, it is in everybody’s interest to get the population inoculated ASAP?

BettyS

History Queen wrote: »

I didn't realise that was the system being used or that there was such a system with everyone's details on one database. Are you sure? I don't get texts from a national screening programme. I get letters from Cervical Check which I had to register for. What happened with the older people who were on the news last week because they still hadn't been vaccinated? One was a lady in her 90s.

They have a national database with your contact details. I know that address is one of the details they store. Cervical check has access to this database because it is in the public interest. It is an incredibly important database. As soon as you create a PPS number, your details are stored.

I think those anecdotes of 90 year olds not vaccinated are the exception. Most practices are on 70-75s. You need to be registered with a GP to be eligible. Similarly, in will depend on the demographics of the practice. If you had a very old practice, with many over 80, it will take longer to reach the 70s, versus a young population. Similarly, it will depend on the range of conditions that the people in the practice have

end of the road

cms88 wrote: »

Retail staff have had to put up with more **** in the last year than nornal. Customers who refuse to follow any guidelines, would walk on top of them rather than wait to get something, come in contact with surfaces that could have been touched by hundreds of people day in day out.

You like many other, not all, teachers are just using your self entitlement to try and get your own way. Also don't try and pretend you're worried about SNAs or anyone else either.

he's not pretending, he is worried.
no he's simply stating the facts from his experience and point of view, that's nothing to do with self-entitlement or trying to get one's own way.

Louis Friend wrote: »

The public and the government need to remember where teachers and their unions were in our hour of need.

These unions need to be crushed and teacher salaries need to be frozen for a decade.

It’s time to open up all of the old debates; these people work half-days EVERY DAY and get 3-4 months’ paid holidays every year. And still they’re not happy. Make them work in the school holidays or take unpaid leave.

yes, we remember where they were in our hour of need, mostly teaching when and where required was where they were in our hour of need while the unions were doing their job.
not possible to crush unions and salaries won't be frozen for a decade, perhapse a couple of years at most if they even are.
these people do what the job requires of them and work when they are required to do so, just like the rest of us.
it's fine for them not to work when not required because the children are entitled to a break, and having them take unpayed leave would be unviable.

BettyS

I don’t want to sound like I am teacher-bashing. I remember my maths teacher in LC used to do a 20 minute class 2 days per week during lunchtime to ensure that we covered the syllabus.

I admit, after spending 14h days in work for the past few weeks, completely stressed out of my mind, with my 2 days per month annual leave, I do feel jealous of teachers. I freely admit that teaching maths and French would have been a happier life for me.

But I am mature enough not to let a bit of jealously drive me to make spiteful arguments. I think that when you start segregating the worthy frontline staff, you make a lot of people feel like second class citizens. This combined with the logistical nightmare of organising the vaccine, makes the ASTI’s stance untenable.

blanch152

khalessi wrote: »

No there is no sympaty on boards, its a tradition I dont expect anything. I dont dump on other professions worries. Do I think teachers have highest risk, well hard to tell in Ireland but international data ONS would show teachers have second highest risk of Long Covid in UK after HCW and I know how much people here love data. Many countries realise that schools are linked to R numbers closing schools lowers the R number. Teachers had 6000+ put on Covid leave in Sept/Oct, the response was not to look at safety but to change the definitions of close contacts in schools because there were not enough subs.

Every step of the way on this people have objected to teachers asking for safety in schools.What is the problem? No one objected when HCWs unions demanded better ppe, they weren't told to get on with it. Teachers are told they are being hysterical, over emotional but now countries in Europe prioritising teachers and US also.

It wasn't teachers that claimed frontline status that only happened last Autumn by the gov and was referred to a number of times by Taoiseach and Tanaiste since them when it suits them. Now that teachers aren't frontline workers that is fine but they should be given the same status as other non frontline workers and encouraged to wfh for the health and safety of the country.

There was a vast improvement in online connectivity this time around. It is not ideal but until all are vaccinated by age it will have to be done. Either that or reopen whole country, and take a calculated risk, all 25 year olds are as safe as each other no? Get everyone back to work, lessen the looming financial crisis and everyone wait their age related turn, while taking the same safety precautions, masks and hand sanitisers are enough apparently.

In regards to your friends ICU mother no she is not frontline, going by HSE guidelines at best she is a casual contact. Frontline has always been facing the public looking after family is not considered frontline, due to limited amount of people and exposure. But if you are not sure you can always contact HSE for their definition but dont expect the answer to be constant changes like the wind.

I can't believe this post. Teachers claimed frontline status from the start of this crisis. They are the only frontline group in the country where over-60s get to stay at home on full pay and not do any work.

Teachers should be behind SNAs and cleaners in schools for a start. They should also be behind bus drivers, meat factory workers, food production workers, retail staff, carers and a whole lot more. However, it isn't possible to construct a database to organise that, hence the best way is through age, verifiable by passport/driver's licence/PPSN.

khalessi

blanch152 wrote: »

I can't believe this post. Teachers claimed frontline status from the start of this crisis. They are the only frontline group in the country where over-60s get to stay at home on full pay and not do any work.

Teachers should be behind SNAs and cleaners in schools for a start. They should also be behind bus drivers, meat factory workers, food production workers, retail staff, carers and a whole lot more. However, it isn't possible to construct a database to organise that, hence the best way is through age, verifiable by passport/driver's licence/PPSN.

You are wrong. Politicians put frontline status on teachers.

khalessi

cms88 wrote: »

So you;re saying teachers don;t think they're frontline workers?

Doesn't matter what teachers think, frontline status was conferred by gov and removed by gov, moot point going by age now

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

Doesn't matter what teachers think, frontline status was conferred by gov and removed by gov, moot point going by age now

You think the age-related approach doesn't matter? Speaks volumes about you to be honest. You seem to be inhabiting a bubble where teachers should take unique priority over older people several times more vulnerable. Furthermore, stifling the speed of vaccine rollout as special interest groups gum up the works. I haven't heard a single supermarket worker complain about their lot, disgruntled teachers can learn tact and humility from them.

astrofool

khalessi wrote: »

Doesn't matter what teachers think, frontline status was conferred by gov and removed by gov, moot point going by age now

In the context of the question asked, I would be interested in what teachers think of their status and whether they count themselves as frontline or not, irrespective of what an unqualified politician thinks.

yabadabado

The union's said the would demand vaccine prioritisation and if that failed they would explore all options including industrial action .

With the minister more or less ruling out any backtrack in the roll out system to give priority to teachers ,what is left in it for the union to keep this up ?


Is it simply to justify the fees all members pay each fortnight?To be seen to fight the good fight?

meeeeh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You think the age-related approach doesn't matter? Speaks volumes about you to be honest. You seem to be inhabiting a bubble where teachers should take unique priority over older people several times more vulnerable. Furthermore, stifling the speed of vaccine rollout as special interest groups gum up the works. I haven't heard a single supermarket worker complain about their lot, disgruntled teachers can learn tact and humility from them.

I heard supermarket workers complain. The difference is they don't have as powerful union who would speak for them. Teacher union conferences are around the time of the year when very little happens (Easter holidays) so their annual whinge fest gets way more attention.

mariaalice

It like crying wolf at this stage the response to every issue cant be threats of a strike, the value of going on strike loses its value and the teaching unions risk become a laughing stock.

Locotastic

khalessi wrote: »

Doesn't matter what teachers think, frontline status was conferred by gov and removed by gov, moot point going by age now

Still not comparable to the actual frontline workers that you keep comparing teachers to. Regardless of some status that the government gave teachers to make them go to their workplace.

irishproduce

The very idea of having an annual union conference (often broadcast) with all the media invited and fed news agenda and stories tells you a lot about the power they'd like to keep out there to remind you of their existence.
Why the news channels broadcast the briefings is beyond me.

Locotastic

irishproduce wrote: »

The very idea of having an annual union conference (often broadcast) with all the media invited and fed news agenda and stories tells you a lot about the power they'd like to keep out there to remind you of their existence.
Why the news channels broadcast the briefings is beyond me.

Somebody needs to tell the unions that they no longer have the power and that the threat of striking doesn't hold much sway anymore, after all we managed without schools for months in 20/21

Its embarrassing for them, of course they don't see it that way. They should be allowed to go ahead and strike and put their money where their mouth is.

Teachers who are on strike don't need vaccinating urgently, problem solved and might teach them to have a bit of respect for their fellow citizens rather than walking over them.

jimmycrackcorm

yabadabado wrote:

The union's said the would demand vaccine prioritisation and if that failed they would explore all options including industrial action .

Id say the government would be happy with a strike. Don't have to pay the teachers and keeping kids out of school suits the narrative about the risk to teachers.

Norma is secretly thinking, go ahead, make my day.

irishproduce

I see the banners behind one of the Union heads says "equal work equal pay.
We all remember well that it was they themselves that threw younger teachers under the bus to protect themselves at the upper end. They're ridiculous.

History Queen

Locotastic wrote: »

Somebody needs to tell the unions that they no longer have the power and that the threat of striking doesn't hold much sway anymore, after all we managed without schools for months in 20/21

Its embarrassing for them, of course they don't see it that way. They should be allowed to go ahead and strike and put their money where their mouth is.

We are a long way from strikes. The unions haven't even balloted members yet, then they have to decide what if any industrial action to take. Strike action would be a last resort and one I think a lot of members, myself included, wouldn't be happy to do.

yabadabado

irishproduce wrote: »

The very idea of having an annual union conference (often broadcast) with all the media invited and fed news agenda and stories tells you a lot about the power they'd like to keep out there to remind you of their existence.
Why the news channels broadcast the briefings is beyond me.

I think it harks back to a bygone era when teachers had a much higher standing in society.

Figerty

Locotastic wrote: »

Somebody needs to tell the unions that they no longer have the power and that the threat of striking doesn't hold much sway anymore, after all we managed without schools for months in 20/21

Its embarrassing for them, of course they don't see it that way. They should be allowed to go ahead and strike and put their money where their mouth is.

Teachers who are on strike don't need vaccinating urgently, problem solved and might teach them to have a bit of respect for their fellow citizens rather than walking over them.

But they do.

History Queen

The media broadcast highlights from other conferences too such as the INMO, the various political parties, the IFA etc. Nothing unique about it.

irishproduce

yabadabado wrote: »

I think it harks back to a bygone era when teachers had a much higher standing in society.

I'd disagree with the thrust of that. I think teachers still have a high standing in society, especially secondary teachers and it's well.deserved too. They do a valuable job.
I think most people would have great time for their children's teachers.
It's when they get riled up as a group by the unions looking to stay relevant is when the problems arise.

Finty Lemon

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Id say the government would be happy with a strike. Don't have to pay the teachers and keeping kids out of school suits the narrative about the risk to teachers.

Norma is secretly thinking, go ahead, make my day.

Norma is a class apart. Does the right thing, follows the science, just says screw the politics. Refreshing to see a politician who isn't just thinking about the next election...

Locotastic

Figerty wrote: »

But they do.

Maybe to teachers they do but very many of their fellow citizens will frown upon this behaviour. They've already been told the vaccine roll out won't be changed to facilitate them, so that's already been cleared up.

Plus the fact that all three unions had to join forces to 'campaign' for industrial action. Speaks volumes.

Parents and students have managed a lot on their own recently so I really don't think the threat of strike action invokes any real power any more, especially when it seems to be the default position, like a spoiled child stomping their feet.

You can bet people are angry about the supposed superior complex image portrayed from all of this.

Newbie20

Locotastic wrote: »

Maybe to teachers they do but very many of their fellow citizens will frown upon this behaviour. They've already been told the vaccine roll out won't be changed to facilitate them, so that's already been cleared up.

Plus the fact that all three unions had to join forces to 'campaign' for industrial action. Speaks volumes.

Parents and students have managed a lot on their own recently so I really don't think the threat of strike action invokes any real power any more, especially when it seems to be the default position, like a spoiled child stomping their feet.

You can bet people are angry about the supposed superior complex image portrayed from all of this.

If people were just reading comments from keyboard warriors like yourself, they would think that there was a ferocious anger out there. But actually having talked to people in real life, some people think teachers should get the vaccine, some don’t think they should but there aren’t too many “angry about the supposed superior complex image portrayed from all of this”

Sorry if that doesn’t match up with the agenda you are pushing on any teacher related forum since March 2020

byhookorbycrook

astrofool wrote: »

In the context of the question asked, I would be interested in what teachers think of their status and whether they count themselves as frontline or not, irrespective of what an unqualified politician thinks.

31 people in a room ,, from 31 different households 30 unmasked ,1 sink ( if that) for hand washing , poor cough hygiene absolutely no social distancing ,5 hours in a badly ventilated space, how is that not frontline ?

Figerty

Locotastic wrote: »

Maybe to teachers they do but very many of their fellow citizens will frown upon this behaviour. They've already been told the vaccine roll out won't be changed to facilitate them, so that's already been cleared up.

Plus the fact that all three unions had to join forces to 'campaign' for industrial action. Speaks volumes.

Parents and students have managed a lot on their own recently so I really don't think the threat of strike action invokes any real power any more, especially when it seems to be the default position, like a spoiled child stomping their feet.

You can bet people are angry about the supposed superior complex image portrayed from all of this.

If a there is a strike day,, 400,000 second level students have to stay at home and parents have to accomodate that. Strikes are not about being popular, they are about what ever they are about.. You can't get cross all you want as a parent but you have to deal with it. Not a childminding service.

The 3 unions issues a common action puts massive pressure on an already weak minister and an already weak government. It's actually a sign of strength. TUI and ASTI have often been out of sync and this has been used against them. Election isnt' that far away in reality and Labour must be loving this.

I don't know if you ever saw the video of Rurari Quinn lurking in an office in Marlboruough street when there was a student protest. That was an eye opener to me. He was far more concerned about the political pressure than any principle involved.

Industrial action and strike action are two different things. Industrial action can be a simples as no involvment in sports, or covering classes etc.

Strike actions aren't popular, but they aren't supposed to be.

byhookorbycrook

blanch152 wrote: »

I can't believe this post. Teachers claimed frontline status from the start of this crisis. They are the only frontline group in the country where over-60s get to stay at home on full pay and not do any work.

Teachers should be behind SNAs and cleaners in schools for a start. They should also be behind bus drivers, meat factory workers, food production workers, retail staff, carers and a whole lot more. However, it isn't possible to construct a database to organise that, hence the best way is through age, verifiable by passport/driver's licence/PPSN.

Over 60s at home and not working ? Really ? Where ?

byhookorbycrook

irishproduce wrote: »

I see the banners behind one of the Union heads says "equal work equal pay.
We all remember well that it was they themselves that threw younger teachers under the bus to protect themselves at the upper end. They're ridiculous.

And again, someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about , but swallows the glib headlines . Do go on .