Covid vaccine , age before special interest groups good or bad? *Mod Note In OP*

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

We are all in this together........

We aren't though, are we? travellers, roma and I suspect, prisoners will get priority still.

Still, I suppose if the person being arrested has been vaccinated, that benefits the Garda.

meeeeh

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

They are getting prioritized.

Feel good now with your smart reply? That a group is getting ahead of you purely because they have chosen to ignore the rules?

I guess it would be a pity to skip a perfectly good opportunity to be outraged.

Pussyhands

So they're moving from group levels to age levels because they say it'll be too difficult to work it all out.

But weren't we told we're going to be getting a load of vaccines in a month or so?

Why don't they do walk in vaccinations like other countries? Advertise "Next week all those in education can go to X to get the vaccine"

etc.?

But really, teachers need to wind their neck in. "b-b-but we're enclosed with 30 kids all day"

People working in shops are in close contact with way more than that all day every day! Look at the cross contamination in a shop. Person puts item on the till...worker touches that item and passes it back to the buyer.

meeeeh

History Queen wrote: »

Travellers are being vaccinated first ahead of the age classifications. That hasn't been scrapped. Not sure about Roma.

Thanks. I have no objection to that. It's very dangerous route when someone's percived morality or immorality becomes main criteria for health treatments.

meeeeh

meeeeh wrote: »

I guess it would be a pity to skip a perfectly good opportunity to be outraged.

Your dead right I'm outraged that criminals and layabouts will get a vaccine ahead of workers purely because they won't follow the rules.

Sofa King Great

Sofa King Great wrote: »

What about the Garda who is 28 and working in kerry where cases are low? Should he get vaccinated ahead of a 58 year old working from home who lives in offaly where cases are high?

There are lots of hypothetical examples to suit either argument

Yes, he should. The 58 year old can stay at home, the garda cannot. It's the same reason why the health staff were priority number 1.

Those that were deemed essential couldn't stay at home, they should be vaccinated ahead of those that can.

meeeeh

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Your dead right I'm outraged that criminals and layabouts will get a vaccine ahead of workers purely because they won't follow the rules.

No it's because they will more likely die from it.

hmmm

Pussyhands wrote: »

But weren't we told we're going to be getting a load of vaccines in a month or so?

Why don't they do walk in vaccinations like other countries? Advertise "Next week all those in education can go to X to get the vaccine"

A couple of reasons I can think of:
1. Who gets to decide which group goes first? Are teachers more at risk than supermarket workers or meat plant workers? Or how about 60 year olds, irrespective of their occupation?
2. What does "all those in education" mean? Does it include SNAs? People in creches? Janitors? Office staff? How about retired teachers? Or those on career breaks?
3. The inevitable moaning and headaches when a 20 year old teacher who exclusively works at home gets it before a 60 year old.

NIAC have given the government cover here by saying (paraphrasing) that once the highly vulnerable have received the vaccine, they think giving it by age is better than by occupation.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Pussyhands wrote: »

So they're moving from group levels to age levels because they say it'll be too difficult to work it all out.

But weren't we told we're going to be getting a load of vaccines in a month or so?

Why don't they do walk in vaccinations like other countries? Advertise "Next week all those in education can go to X to get the vaccine"

etc

Teachers don't have a certificate to say they are teachers.

Therefore it adds too much admin to say teachers can go on x day and be vaccinated.

I believe it makes sense to Prioritise teachers but only if work was done last December making a list of them. It wasn't done then it shouldn't be done now.

Darwin

It's not like there hasn't been a precedent set in other EU countries to prioritise vaccination of essential frontline workers. Italy, Spain, Germany, Austria, Croatia to name a few. The EU have even published guidelines on the matter:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/public-health/eu-vaccines-strategy_en#possible-priority-groups

Darwin

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Teachers don't have a certificate to say they are teachers.

Therefore it adds too much admin to say teachers can go on x day and be vaccinated.

Teachers are required to register with the teaching council - an excellent starting place to compile a list.

astrofool

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

So why aren't older people only subject to lockdown and why are the daily numbers so important?

The daily numbers are important because if the case numbers get too high, the number of people hospitalized in the younger age groups can also overwhelm the hospitals. It's also why they report on the age groups of those who test positive and the number of people in hospital and ICU, if the case numbers go to 10,000+ a day, then even at 1% hospitalisation rate, that's still 100 people per day, 700 per week, that are taking up space in the hospital.

derb12

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Teachers don't have a certificate to say they are teachers.

Therefore it adds too much admin to say teachers can go on x day and be vaccinated.

.

Teachers literally do have a certificate to say they are teachers.

Natterjack from Kerry

Pussyhands wrote: »

Why don't they do walk in vaccinations like other countries? Advertise "Next week all those in education can go to X to get the vaccine"

That's the very problem. It's too unclear..
What does 'in education' mean.

Teachers? Teachers who used to teach but have left it? Teachers who are unemployed so not attached to a school? SNAs? People who give grinds from their homes? People is 3rd level? Universities only? Or those teaching in assorted private or professional schools? Those who give night classes in flower arranging? People with a hdip but have never worked as teachers?
It's too messy.
Age is just so simple, no arguments, and gets the protection to those who most need it in order.

BailMeOut

the focus for the moment should be on people who have a higher risk of death should they get the virus.

History Queen

meeeeh wrote: »

Thanks. I have no objection to that. It's very dangerous route when someone's percived morality or immorality becomes main criteria for health treatments.

Agreed. For the same reason I understand why prisoners should be prioritised for vaccination. I assume they are being?

lbj666

https://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/share/radio1/21932525

Karina butler's interview, gives a clear explanation that age is the obvious factor regarding risk not occupation the exception being healthcare workers obviously.

meeeeh

History Queen wrote: »

Agreed. For the same reason I understand why prisoners should be prioritised for vaccination. I assume they are being?

Probably. You can't send them to hotel to self isolate if numbers of infected get out of hand.

Necro

Pussyhands wrote: »

So they're moving from group levels to age levels because they say it'll be too difficult to work it all out.

But weren't we told we're going to be getting a load of vaccines in a month or so?

Why don't they do walk in vaccinations like other countries? Advertise "Next week all those in education can go to X to get the vaccine"

etc.?

But really, teachers need to wind their neck in. "b-b-but we're enclosed with 30 kids all day"

People working in shops are in close contact with way more than that all day every day! Look at the cross contamination in a shop. Person puts item on the till...worker touches that item and passes it back to the buyer.

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

That's the very problem. It's too unclear..
What does 'in education' mean.

Teachers? Teachers who used to teach but have left it? Teachers who are unemployed so not attached to a school? SNAs? People who give grinds from their homes? People is 3rd level? Universities only? Or those teaching in assorted private or professional schools? Those who give night classes in flower arranging? People with a hdip but have never worked as teachers?
It's too messy.
Age is just so simple, no arguments, and gets the protection to those who most need it in order.

Mod: Final warning folks, next it's cards and/or thread/forum bans - there is a mod note in relation to this focus on teachers in this thread, go and discuss it in the dedicated schools thread

Baggly wrote: »

Mod

There is more to this discussion than teachers and teachers unions. At least there had better be, because i dont intend to see two threads on the topic of COVID and schools.

If you want to discuss COVID and schools, go to the dedicated thread for it.

If you want to discuss the rest of this topic, do it here.

ThewhiteJesus

Hopefully the rollout will speed up now so it sounds like a good idea to simplify but will it change again, only Paul Reid knows

Away With The Fairies

Hopefully now the workplaces that were at the bottom of the vaccination list will have some protected staff.

Natterjack from Kerry

Teachers was just the example cited.

Retail workers then:

People on checkout counters? People in food retail? Shop managers who dont face customers but are on a shop floor ? Admin people in retail ? Retail only operating click and collect? People who stack shelves but dont interface with customers ? Internet based retail ?People who work behind in the warehouse ? Part time workers ? Union members only ? Someone who says they are in retail but hasnt worked in retail for years ? Forklift drivers unloading goods for shops? Petrol stations ? Someone who did work in retail but was laid off last year ? Etc, etc.

Again, segments are just too messy to decide who exactly qualifies or doesnt. Age works.

endacl

Wonder how this will affect the process for those who have had a first jab and are waiting to be called for the second, but are down the age list?

Away With The Fairies

endacl wrote: »

Wonder how this will affect the process for those who have had a first jab and are waiting to be called for the second, but are down the age list?

I'd say you'd get the second jab. I think they're still working on the old list. I know someone who should be down the list going by the ages. But they were still called for a vaccine next week based on their occupation. So not sure when the new list kicks in.

moonage

No healthy person under 60 should be vaccinated.

The vaccines at best reduce symptoms. They don't stop infection or transmission.

It's crazy giving non-vulnerable people under-tested, unapproved, experimental treatments whose medium and long term safety is questionable.

is_that_so

At the risk of getting caught out by the date I don't understand why a government minister is challenging the NIAC decision they approved. TDs lobbying, of course, is just another day's work.


https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0401/1207355-vaccines/

is_that_so

moonage wrote: »

No healthy person under 60 should be vaccinated.

The vaccines at best reduce symptoms. They don't stop infection or transmission.

It's crazy giving non-vulnerable people under-tested, unapproved, experimental treatments whose medium and long term safety is questionable.

Moderna and Pfizer might disagree with you on this.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-vaccine-moderna-pfizer-transmission-disease

is_that_so

endacl wrote: »

Wonder how this will affect the process for those who have had a first jab and are waiting to be called for the second, but are down the age list?

Probably not at all as they are all in groups not affected by this change. Don't you get a second date when you go for the first one?

History Queen

moonage wrote: »

No healthy person under 60 should be vaccinated.

The vaccines at best reduce symptoms. They don't stop infection or transmission.

It's crazy giving non-vulnerable people under-tested, unapproved, experimental treatments whose medium and long term safety is questionable.

Including health care workers? Nursing home staff etc? Really?

The vaccines are widely tested and approved.

Wanderer78

is_that_so wrote:

Probably not at all as they are all in groups not affected by this change. Don't you get a second date when you go for the first one?

Yea you get your second date at the first.

I'm wondering am I one of the lucky ones receiving the jab, due to this new approach, just received my first contact, didn't expect that at all